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Old 03/24/2020, 12:13 PM   #1
squid row
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Quarantine Tank Screw Up

I have an ick issue in my display tank, so I set up what I thought was a QT

I had a 20 gallon tank with a HOB Marineland filter with carbon removed, heater and lights.

Added cupramine after making sure water parameters matched my DT

Moved a flame angel with minimal signs of ick and showing no stress into the QT and after a day it as on its side and dying.

Other than showing a couple of spots on its tail it was behaving normally in the DT but I thought moving into quarantine would be a good thing. In the end I ended up killing it.

What did I do wrong or what steps did I miss?

I am going to take the QT down and start over so any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance


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Old 03/24/2020, 12:27 PM   #2
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Not all species tolerate copper. Sorry to say. Look up TTM (tank transfer). Personally, I just don't use copper. I've had terrible luck with it. TTM requires a second qt, and you just keep moving fish to the other tank, cleaning the first one, moving again, etc. I think the protocol is somewhere in the Fish Disease forum. If not, I'll find it for you.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, chromis, royal gramma basslet, tailspot blenny, ocellaris clown, RBTA, signal goby, yellow watchman, red firefish, chestnut turbo snails, bristleworms, couple of hermits.
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Old 03/24/2020, 02:33 PM   #3
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How fast did you raise the copper level? Taking 4-5 days to reach full therapeutic oftentimes makes a big difference vs. 48 hours as per Seachem's directions.


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Old 03/24/2020, 02:55 PM   #4
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Sadly Angels do not handle copper well. Use TTM, as mentioned, to treat all new fish. I use two 5 gallon tanks and treat wit Prazi Pro on the 2nd and 4th transfers.


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Old 03/24/2020, 03:20 PM   #5
squid row
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How fast did you raise the copper level? Taking 4-5 days to reach full therapeutic oftentimes makes a big difference vs. 48 hours as per Seachem's directions.
I followed the directions on the bottle:
20 drops per 10.5 gallons on first day

How can I find out which fish tolerate Cupramine?

The ick is spreading in my DT despite treating with KickIch and now treating with Medic


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Old 03/24/2020, 03:32 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by squid row View Post
I followed the directions on the bottle:
20 drops per 10.5 gallons on first day

How can I find out which fish tolerate Cupramine?

The ick is spreading in my DT despite treating with KickIch and now treating with Medic
If you list out all of your fish, I can tell you which ones are copper sensitive IME.


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Old 03/24/2020, 04:57 PM   #7
squid row
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If you list out all of your fish, I can tell you which ones are copper sensitive IME.
Thanks!

Blue Hippo Tang
Ocellarus Clown
Six Line Wrasse
Yellow Wrasse
Firefish
Blue Chromis

I have almost zero chance of catching any of them, but just finished emptying out and resetting up the 20 gallon for quarantine.

One item I realize now that I missed was airflow.... Got an old air pump in the garage that I will add


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Old 03/24/2020, 05:23 PM   #8
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Aeration while medicating is really important. But don't put bubbles where fish are forced to swim in them. Copper can be hard on tangs, fire clowns, not sure about the others.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, chromis, royal gramma basslet, tailspot blenny, ocellaris clown, RBTA, signal goby, yellow watchman, red firefish, chestnut turbo snails, bristleworms, couple of hermits.
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Old 03/24/2020, 08:48 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by squid row View Post
Blue Hippo Tang
Ocellarus Clown
Six Line Wrasse
Yellow Wrasse
Firefish
Blue Chromis
All of those fish are good candidates for copper IME. However, I use Copper Power instead of Cupramine. I also recommend using this Hanna checker for more accurate testing: https://www.hannainst.com/hi702-copper-hr.html

When using Copper Power: You can drop the fish in at 1.0ppm, and over a period of a week gradually raise the Cu level to 2.0ppm. Leave it there for 30 days, testing often.


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Old 03/25/2020, 02:22 PM   #10
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What are you using in the QT to help with ammonia? Is the tank fully cycled?


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Old 03/25/2020, 06:59 PM   #11
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All my attempts to treat my fish in qt had ended in failure and at times catching small fish in dt and transferring it to qt is almost impossible. So I have started feeding them with food soaked in chloroquine and found it very effective, haven't seen any problems with invertebrates as of now.

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Old 03/26/2020, 02:06 AM   #12
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Let me interject here, since that word has come up: THIS chloroquine is not what they were talking about re CORVID-19. Somebody didn't know that, got into his fish remedies, ingested it, and died. Chloroquine is not a brand name: it's a chemical name. You know there's a difference between sodium chloride and sodium bicarbonate. One is salt, the other is baking soda. There's also sodium azide, which is lethal even in tiny doses. Remember this in all your handling of fish meds. Not for human consumption.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, chromis, royal gramma basslet, tailspot blenny, ocellaris clown, RBTA, signal goby, yellow watchman, red firefish, chestnut turbo snails, bristleworms, couple of hermits.

Last edited by Sk8r; 03/26/2020 at 02:23 AM.
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Old 03/26/2020, 02:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
Let me interject here, since that word has come up: THIS chloroquine is not what they were talking about re CORVID-19. Somebody didn't know that, got into his fish remedies, ingested it, and died. Chloroquine is not a brand name: it's a chemical name. You know there's a difference between sodium chloride and sodium bicarbonate. One is salt, the other is baking soda. There's also sodium azide, which is lethal even in tiny doses. Remember this in all your handling of fish meds. Not for human consumption.
Well, in this case it is the same substance. And a number of reefers actually use the human medication for their fish. I used for example human use antibiotics to treat sick anemones.
The issue with the aquarium use chloroquine phosphate is that it is usually a loose powder of undetermined purity. And getting the dosage wrong is what gets you into the ICU or morgue, not the (possible) impurities. Getting the dosage wrong was how that guy in AZ cured himself from the ailment know as "life"....

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ED: SK8R: The chloroquine used in the CORVID-19 trial is hydroxychloroquine, not chloroquine phosphate.


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Last edited by Sk8r; Yesterday at 11:41 AM.
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Old 03/26/2020, 07:09 AM   #14
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Getting the dosage wrong was how that guy in AZ cured himself from the ailment know as "life"....
Or if it truly was a liquid "pond cleaner" as has been suggested... some other chemical found therein might have killed him. Everything I have read about the incident lacked specific information. I, for one, would like to know what "pond cleaner" contains chloroquine and for what purpose. The only thing I can come up with is because chloroquine is a very strong algaecide.


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Old 03/26/2020, 09:39 AM   #15
squid row
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Thanks for the tips. I used water that was in my mixing can (in other words the water i made for water changes) to set up the QT tank

Let it stand for a couple of days and added aeration

Was able to catch the two fish in my tank that are visibly showing signs of ick, the blue hippo tang and my clownfish.

Transferred them both to the QT last night after an extended acclimation period and added a lower dose of Cupramine than the bottle suggested (approx. 75%)

Today both appear to be doing fine. Tang is hiding but is eating. Clown is sucking in food as fast as I put it in!

Visibly signs of infection are down on both so i am hopeful!

Next question... how long do I treat them in this tank after visible signs of ick are gone before returning to my DT?

Keeping in mind that my DT still has three fish in it that I can not catch (Blue Chromis, yellow wrasse, six line wrasse)


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Old 03/26/2020, 10:41 AM   #16
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Next question... how long do I treat them in this tank after visible signs of ick are gone before returning to my DT?

Keeping in mind that my DT still has three fish in it that I can not catch (Blue Chromis, yellow wrasse, six line wrasse)
Raise the Cu level to full therapeutic (0.5 ppm for Cupramine), and treat for 30 days.

However, keep in mind the disease will always be active in the DT until all fish are caught, treated, and the DT itself is left fallow (fishless) for 76 days.


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Old 03/27/2020, 01:42 PM   #17
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raise the cu level to full therapeutic (0.5 ppm for cupramine), and treat for 30 days.

however, keep in mind the disease will always be active in the dt until all fish are caught, treated, and the dt itself is left fallow (fishless) for 76 days.

x 1000


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Old Today, 10:52 AM   #18
squid row
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Just an update... I have caught all of my fish except the 6 line wrasse. Will have to take down the tank to catch him so he is staying in the DT

Yellow wrasse died so now in QT is the clown, blue hippo and blue chromis.

Got a hanna copper checker and have adjusted the QT and it now stands at 0.5 PPM

Fish are healthy looking, no signs of ick and are all eating very aggressively.

Now the bad news.. After checking one time with the hanna checker, it quit working. Shows bad battery error. I have changed out the battery four times and keep getting the error so hopefully they will exchange it.

Thank you everyone for the great advice. I really appreciate it


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