Reef Central Online Community
Premium Aquatics

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Responsible Reefkeeping
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 05/27/2019, 11:36 PM   #1
unze
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 433
Coral exports indonesia

Any updates on coral exports from Indonesia? Seems like its a permanent ban.


unze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/29/2019, 09:00 PM   #2
1claire
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 27
I feel like you can try to look for an alternative seller nearby, why does it need to be from Indonesia?


1claire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/30/2019, 10:43 PM   #3
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 8,355
I would think by now alternatives would have filled the void.
But all that comes in on corals is from Australia (highly regulated and expensive) and Tonga.
So I would think there are not many other sources that allow the collection and export of corals these days.
On the other hand, fish, inverts, and anemones are still coming in from many places:
Kenya, Madagascar, Mauritius, Djibouti, Maldives, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Vietnam, Philippines, Marshal Islands, Solomon Islands, Fiji,...


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/12/2019, 12:05 PM   #4
Amoore311
Registered Member
 
Amoore311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ulster County, NY
Posts: 2,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1claire View Post
I feel like you can try to look for an alternative seller nearby, why does it need to be from Indonesia?
Look for an alternative seller nearby? 80+% of the hobbies corals were collected in Indonesia lol...

Australia is really the only option which is why $10/head euphyllia is are now $50-60+/head euphyllia.


__________________
30 Gallon FOWLR 2004-2006
90 Gallon LPS Reef 2006-2008
180 Gallon SPS Reef 2008-20012
100 Gallon Custom Rimless Mixed Reef 2012-2014
29 Gallon Biocube Reef! Current

Current Tank Info: 29 Gallon Biocube, StevesLED Upgrade, Neptune Apex
Amoore311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/05/2019, 08:04 AM   #5
GTR
Rubberman
 
GTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Grand Terrace, CA
Posts: 8,068
We brought in only documented cultured coral from Indo and fragged it further. That was our customers requirement, nothing wild imported and then chopped up. It was all soft coral and obvious it was grown on concrete plugs, not cut, glued and shipped. That supply has not been replaced by other sources.
The ban costs us about 20k/month in gross.


__________________
AKA, Riff
GTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/07/2019, 03:44 AM   #6
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 8,355
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post
We brought in only documented cultured coral from Indo and fragged it further. That was our customers requirement, nothing wild imported and then chopped up. It was all soft coral and obvious it was grown on concrete plugs, not cut, glued and shipped. That supply has not been replaced by other sources.
The ban costs us about 20k/month in gross.
An LFS told me that it is quite common that Indonesian "coral farms" would harvest frags from wild corals, glue them to concrete plugs, "culture" them just long enough to encrust, and then ship them.
And honestly, that's pretty much the only way to offer "farmed" corals at the prices they charge.
Or do you seriously think they have so many mother colonies that they can cut thousands of frags from them to satisfy the worldwide demand?
So, in the end, the only difference is really where the chopping happens...


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07/08/2019, 02:12 AM   #7
Jens Kallmeyer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 542
Sorry, but if you see the farms in Indonesia you would not make this statement. They literally have tens of thousands of mini-colonies, just about twice to three times the size of an average Indo frag. Those get split regularly, a few go into sale, the others into growout. That is actually cheaper and less labor intensive than clipping small pieces from large wild colonies. Even with labor as cheap as in Indonesia, it all boils down to the question how can you mass produce frags with the least amount of work.


Jens Kallmeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/08/2019, 04:38 PM   #8
suta4242
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: sydney, australia
Posts: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
An LFS told me that it is quite common that Indonesian "coral farms" would harvest frags from wild corals, glue them to concrete plugs, "culture" them just long enough to encrust, and then ship them....
Interesting. Some local collectors (not all) are doing the same thing. Donít think theyíre marketing them as aquacultured per se but when you see an acro frag on a plug itís easy to make that assumption I guess.

Their reasoning:

Quote:
do you seriously think they have so many mother colonies that they can cut thousands of frags from them to satisfy the worldwide demand?



suta4242 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07/09/2019, 02:08 PM   #9
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 8,355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Kallmeyer View Post
Sorry, but if you see the farms in Indonesia you would not make this statement. They literally have tens of thousands of mini-colonies, just about twice to three times the size of an average Indo frag. Those get split regularly, a few go into sale, the others into growout. That is actually cheaper and less labor intensive than clipping small pieces from large wild colonies. Even with labor as cheap as in Indonesia, it all boils down to the question how can you mass produce frags with the least amount of work.
I'm not disputing that, but I have never seen such small imported frags in the trade here. Whatever reaches the stores here are reasonably large (between golf to tennis ball sized) "maricultured" corals ("grown out" in the ocean as evident by the quite frequent hitchhiker and symbiotic crabs) which the local stores then often cut down to small frags.
The small frags in the trade here come exclusively from local reefers, US coral farms like ORA, or are fragged from maricultured or wild collected corals by the local stores.


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07/09/2019, 02:23 PM   #10
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 8,355
Quote:
Originally Posted by suta4242 View Post
Interesting. Some local collectors (not all) are doing the same thing. Donít think theyíre marketing them as aquacultured per se but when you see an acro frag on a plug itís easy to make that assumption I guess.

Their reasoning:
I would think the parrot fish swarms on the Australian reefs eat more coral tips in a day than all collectors of Australia could collect in a year. And it has been shown that cutting tips of healthy corals stimulates their growth. So I think there is nothing on the environmental or ethical side that speaks against this form of frag collection.
It also adds more diversity to the coral gene pool in captivity.


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07/09/2019, 10:13 PM   #11
suta4242
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: sydney, australia
Posts: 632
Absolutely. Our fishery is strictly monitored. I think Charles veron said some years ago that our coral collection had the same impact as a bicycle ridden on roads around the whole country.

Much more damage is done by cyclones than collectors gathering stock.


suta4242 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07/11/2019, 04:37 AM   #12
GTR
Rubberman
 
GTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Grand Terrace, CA
Posts: 8,068
I've seen corals come in as aquacultured/maricultured larger than a softball.
That could still be true but when you open the bags and the smell is overwhelmingly fresh 2-part epoxy and not acro it's obvious what was happening.


__________________
AKA, Riff
GTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:52 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.