Tunze 9430 needlwheel problem

lenny1972 · 09/22/2017, 01:23 PM

Hi, I've just bought a 9430 protein skimmer with the 220V hydrofoamer pump (not the Electronic version) but I'm facing a great problem because the skimmate (with the air all open) is really wet and in order to make the skimmer work well I have to close quite all the air.
The pump is provided with the new "blue" needlwheel (that currently equipped the new Electronic pump) which differs significantly from the old "Black" model i terms of number of needles, their geometry/positioning and the number of holes in the base. I've tried to modifiy it (reducing the number of the needles on the external round in order to make it similar to the old Black needlwheel) and it worked like a charm. Good skimmate with the air all open...

My susepct is that the new needlwheel (the blue one) doesn't work as it should with the old pump (220V)..

Also a friend of mine that have the same skimmer is facing the same problem...

Anyone out there has the same problem? The fact that for two different pump (with different characteristics) is provided the same needlwheel is not IMHO a good commercial choice even because the 220v pump perform good with the Black needlwheel and not work at all with the blue needlwheel. Is this just a commercial way to push the people that owns the "old" 220 V pump to buy the new expensive Electronic ones ?

Sorry for my english but I'm not english mother tongue.

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rvitko · 09/22/2017, 01:30 PM

In theory both 9430 DC and 9430 50Hz should have same needle wheel, they have approx same rotational speed, DC can range from 40-60Hz I believe. This is correct, I think the black one you show is a mistake and looks correct for 9420 pump in 50Hz. In general what you describe is due to water level is too high or the tank has too much organics and after the skimmer removes most it will settle down. Make sure water level is at the lower end of the recommendation, especially when new. It will take 2 weeks to really break in the skimmer.

rvitko · 09/22/2017, 01:32 PM

Actually if you count the pins, the black and blue are about the same, black is alternating rows of 3 and 4 and blue is three rows of 3 and three rows of 4. I am sorry I am not very familiar with your needle wheel, in US with 60Hz ours are different, always one row of pins less.

lenny1972 · 09/22/2017, 01:38 PM

Thanks for your prompt reply. The skimmer worked since 2 week now and the water level ti 17 cm (within the range). My Setup is a 10 years old Fish/SPS reef tank. The strange thing is that after I modified the needlwheel the skimmer
started to work immediately as it should. The user manual state that the replacing part for the 9430 hydrofoamer is the 9430.047 item and the picture show clearly the Black needlwheel model (I attach a picture of the manual).

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lenny1972 · 09/22/2017, 01:39 PM

I forgot the picture

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lenny1972 · 09/22/2017, 01:43 PM

In addition to that also the number of the holes in the base is dramatically different (just 4 holes in the Black model) and much more in the blue model. Surely also this differenc have an impact on the needlwheel performances..

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rvitko · 09/22/2017, 01:44 PM

Yes, the manual is just using an older photo but the blue is the new one and is also part 9430.047. The water level can be 10-20 cm, the closer you get to 10 especially when newer the more stable it will be, I would try for approx 12cm and I believe you will see a big difference.

rvitko · 09/22/2017, 01:46 PM

The holes are to purge air from the impeller area and keep a balance, otherwise air becomes trapped in the rotor chamber and can result in noise and damage. The new drive unit is really a much better design that addresses a lot of premature wear issues with the old one.

lenny1972 · 09/22/2017, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvitko

The holes are to purge air from the impeller area and keep a balance, otherwise air becomes trapped in the rotor chamber and can result in noise and damage. The new drive unit is really a much better design that addresses a lot of premature wear issues with the old one.

Thanks for your suggestions. I'll try to lower the sump level and see if something changes.

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09/22/2017, 01:23 PM	#1
lenny1972 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Rome Posts: 8	Tunze 9430 needlwheel problem Hi, I've just bought a 9430 protein skimmer with the 220V hydrofoamer pump (not the Electronic version) but I'm facing a great problem because the skimmate (with the air all open) is really wet and in order to make the skimmer work well I have to close quite all the air. The pump is provided with the new "blue" needlwheel (that currently equipped the new Electronic pump) which differs significantly from the old "Black" model i terms of number of needles, their geometry/positioning and the number of holes in the base. I've tried to modifiy it (reducing the number of the needles on the external round in order to make it similar to the old Black needlwheel) and it worked like a charm. Good skimmate with the air all open... My susepct is that the new needlwheel (the blue one) doesn't work as it should with the old pump (220V).. Also a friend of mine that have the same skimmer is facing the same problem... Anyone out there has the same problem? The fact that for two different pump (with different characteristics) is provided the same needlwheel is not IMHO a good commercial choice even because the 220v pump perform good with the Black needlwheel and not work at all with the blue needlwheel. Is this just a commercial way to push the people that owns the "old" 220 V pump to buy the new expensive Electronic ones ? Sorry for my english but I'm not english mother tongue. Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A3003 utilizzando Tapatalk

09/22/2017, 01:30 PM	#2
rvitko RC Sponsor Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Austin Texas USA Posts: 35,785	In theory both 9430 DC and 9430 50Hz should have same needle wheel, they have approx same rotational speed, DC can range from 40-60Hz I believe. This is correct, I think the black one you show is a mistake and looks correct for 9420 pump in 50Hz. In general what you describe is due to water level is too high or the tank has too much organics and after the skimmer removes most it will settle down. Make sure water level is at the lower end of the recommendation, especially when new. It will take 2 weeks to really break in the skimmer. __________________ Roger Vitko Tunze USA "He's for every one of us, stands for every one of us, he'll save every man, woman and child in a mighty Flash!" Current Tank Info: 210 gallon planted tank with Altum Angelfish

09/22/2017, 01:32 PM	#3
rvitko RC Sponsor Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Austin Texas USA Posts: 35,785	Actually if you count the pins, the black and blue are about the same, black is alternating rows of 3 and 4 and blue is three rows of 3 and three rows of 4. I am sorry I am not very familiar with your needle wheel, in US with 60Hz ours are different, always one row of pins less. __________________ Roger Vitko Tunze USA "He's for every one of us, stands for every one of us, he'll save every man, woman and child in a mighty Flash!" Current Tank Info: 210 gallon planted tank with Altum Angelfish

09/22/2017, 01:44 PM	#7
rvitko RC Sponsor Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Austin Texas USA Posts: 35,785	Yes, the manual is just using an older photo but the blue is the new one and is also part 9430.047. The water level can be 10-20 cm, the closer you get to 10 especially when newer the more stable it will be, I would try for approx 12cm and I believe you will see a big difference. __________________ Roger Vitko Tunze USA "He's for every one of us, stands for every one of us, he'll save every man, woman and child in a mighty Flash!" Current Tank Info: 210 gallon planted tank with Altum Angelfish

09/22/2017, 01:46 PM	#8
rvitko RC Sponsor Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Austin Texas USA Posts: 35,785	The holes are to purge air from the impeller area and keep a balance, otherwise air becomes trapped in the rotor chamber and can result in noise and damage. The new drive unit is really a much better design that addresses a lot of premature wear issues with the old one. __________________ Roger Vitko Tunze USA "He's for every one of us, stands for every one of us, he'll save every man, woman and child in a mighty Flash!" Current Tank Info: 210 gallon planted tank with Altum Angelfish

09/22/2017, 01:38 PM	#4
lenny1972 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Rome Posts: 8	Thanks for your prompt reply. The skimmer worked since 2 week now and the water level ti 17 cm (within the range). My Setup is a 10 years old Fish/SPS reef tank. The strange thing is that after I modified the needlwheel the skimmer started to work immediately as it should. The user manual state that the replacing part for the 9430 hydrofoamer is the 9430.047 item and the picture show clearly the Black needlwheel model (I attach a picture of the manual). Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A3003 utilizzando Tapatalk

09/22/2017, 01:39 PM	#5
lenny1972 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Rome Posts: 8	I forgot the picture Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A3003 utilizzando Tapatalk

09/22/2017, 01:43 PM	#6
lenny1972 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Rome Posts: 8	In addition to that also the number of the holes in the base is dramatically different (just 4 holes in the Black model) and much more in the blue model. Surely also this differenc have an impact on the needlwheel performances.. Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A3003 utilizzando Tapatalk