Is this ICH? Ruby Reef to treat if no QT?

LouB · 03/13/2018, 08:04 AM

I just got 2 orange striped cardinals about a week ago from Reef Escape in Fairfax, VA which claims to have a pretty good quarantine policy before they sell and release fish. That said, take a look at the pics and tell me if you think this is is ICH. I do.

Fish 1
tuesday1.jpg

Fish 2
Tuesday 2.jpg

No other fish are presenting these symptoms. Also, I do not have a QT tank.

Will Ruby Reef help cure this? Will it kill my corals as well? I've hear it won't..

Would definitely appreciate some insight...

Thanks in advance!

LauraGreenImp · 03/13/2018, 08:22 AM

I’d say ich. It’s in your DT now, unfortunately. The remedy for ich is complex, you can find detailed instructions by using the R/C ‘search’ feature.

Get a QT tank. I don’t have a huge home, or dedicated ‘fish room’ - my 20g QT is in the laundry room. A minor expenditure of time and money will save you SO much effort in the future.

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Uncle99 · 03/13/2018, 08:32 AM

It could be, it could also be flukes which would many times fall off in a couple of days.
IMO, watch carefully, if they stop eating, become lathargic, stop swimming as normal, then I would go with Ick. That requires your DT to remain without fish for 72 days, and all fish to be treated in a separate tank with either TTM, hypo, or copper.

billdogg · 03/13/2018, 09:29 AM

It sure likes like it to me.

There are exactly ZERO reef safe treatments for Ich. None. You choices are, in my order of preference, Tank Transfer Method (TTM), then Chloroquine Phosphate (CP), then Hyposalinity, and then, way down on the list, Copper.

All require the use of a hospital tank or tanks.

TTM is the least stressful to the fish and is 100% effective if done properly. It works because it disrupts the life cycle of the Ich parasite. It does require at least 2 separate tanks that need to be sterilized between uses. A simple cleaning with bleach and allowing it to dry will do the trick. Depending on fish size and number, it can easily be carried out in 5g buckets with a couple heaters and air stones (dispose of the airstones after use).

CP will work just fine, but requires proper dosing.

Hyposalinity can work, but MUST be carefully monitored for the duration of the treatment. Any slight rise in the salinity will reset the timeclock on the treatment.

Although copper has been around for decades, it it TOXIC to all inhabitants. The trick is to maintain a proper dosage that is just below the lethal range for the fish while being above the lethal range for the parasite. An added problem is that many fish will not tolerate copper well, if at all.

Regardless of your treatment plan, ALL fish in the tank MUST be treated at the same time while the DT remains fallow (fishless) for a minimum of 72 days. Leaving any in the DT will allow the Ich parasite to have an intermediate host even if the fish appears to be asymptomatic (Ich free)

jm.02

reef cuber · 03/13/2018, 09:38 AM

That will help treat the fish, but in the mean time if it is ick, it's in his main tank too. I would pull all fish, treat them in a QT tank with what ever method you choose.. and let your main tank go fishless for at least two months... do water changes etc as normal. After your fish have been clear for 2 months, then put them back in the main tank.

I use a QT tank, get one fish at a time, put in QT for two months and then move to main tank. Maybe that's extreme, but I have lost a lot of fish to ick prior to using this method.

I also wouldn't wait to treat the fish, ick can kill the fish pretty quickly.

nereefpat · 03/13/2018, 09:38 AM

Looks like it to me too.

I agree with the others about remedies. Treatment needs to be done in QT, and your options are TTM, hypo, or a couple choices for chemicals.

LouB · 03/13/2018, 10:35 AM

First of all, thank you everyone for responses...

Re: flukes...Uncle...you know I wonder if it is flukes? Yesterday morning, they both had it all over them. I came home and was surprised to see that the spots no longer were there, so I called the aquarium store, and the guy said that maybe they were just air bubbles that fell off...I was happy but then looked closer at the one and figured it was ich...it didn't look as bad as it does today...today it looks bad...and so I'm inclined to think Ich even though they are not lathargic at all and seem to be eating fine...

I don't have a QT. So, Ruby Reef Kick Ich isn't going to help? What do they sell that stuff for?

My wife's going to kill me with another tank...I have

1 coral beauty
2 ocellaris clowns
1 firefish
1 diamond goby
1 royal gramma
and the 2 ichy cardinals

what would be the smallest setup for a QT tank I could do? It seems like you all think I should treat all fish in the QT...

nereefpat · 03/13/2018, 10:39 AM

Ich does attach to feed, and then drops off to reproduce as part of its life cycle.

Bent · 03/13/2018, 10:42 AM

Your going to hate this response but here goes.

You are going to have to remove every fish, even the ones that are asymptomatic.

Put them in a QT. You might be able to get away with QTing everyone together in a 40b.

Treat the fish in the QT with the only four known ways.
Copper
Hyposalinity
TTM
chloroquine phosphate

IMO either CP or TTM should be what you do. Copper and hypo are too difficult to get right.

Then your display tank must remain fishless for 72-80 days.

When your fish are crypto free and your tank has been fallow for the allotted time, you can introduce your now healthy crypto free fish into your crypto free display tank.

Lesson learned. QT all of your animals. This headache could have been easily prevented.

LouB · 03/13/2018, 10:50 AM

Does the QT need:

Substrate?
Live Rock?
Is a canister filter ok? What type of filtration is needed in a QT?
Need a protein skimmer?

My current setup is a 54 gal DT, fluval 306, eshops PSK-75, 30 pounds live rock, 25 dead rock, 2 orbit IC bars, live sand bottom

billdogg · 03/13/2018, 11:38 AM

My QT consists of the following:
20g tank
heater
power head
several PVC elbows for hiding places
HOB filter with disposable cartridges (Marineland Emperor)
eggcrate with fiberglass window screen ziptied to it to prevent jumpers

What it doesn't have - lights, sand, rocks, skimmer - there is no need for any of these things.

I keep water parameters in check by doing a 5g water change every other day using water from my frag tank.

My TTM equipment is this:
3 x 5g buckets
3 x 50w heaters
3 x air pumps /stones

The buckets and heaters are cleaned between uses with bleach, then rinsed and allowed to air dry.

Uncle99 · 03/13/2018, 12:12 PM

I have viewed the pics again and I still can’t confirm ick.
If your fish have stopped eating, eyes bulged, rapid respiratory, any of these three then yes to ick, perhaps others have better resolution than me.
If you decide treatment is what you need, then Hypo is not hard, and I have tried both hypo and cupramine with 100% success.

Last week we did a clown for a customer which had ick for at least 12 days, used cupramine on him as we feel that once this far advanced we go for meds, in 7 days, ick gone.

Your DT must go fallow for 72 days, that’s the standard.

Bent · 03/13/2018, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouB

Does the QT need:

Substrate?
Live Rock?
Is a canister filter ok? What type of filtration is needed in a QT?
Need a protein skimmer?

My current setup is a 54 gal DT, fluval 306, eshops PSK-75, 30 pounds live rock, 25 dead rock, 2 orbit IC bars, live sand bottom

I would suggest spending time reading this section of the forums
http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=87

And this thread specifically:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1846124

Uncle99 · 03/13/2018, 12:44 PM

Once ick is confirmed, as you believe, all fish must be moved to QT, and treatment is the choice of the hobbyist.
Good luck, when treating always try to feed, we feed with a syringe and airline hise, one piece at a time, and then suck up what they don’t or can’t eat so we do not foul the water. Since the tank is not cycled, ammonia is now your enemy so partial changes are necessary
Keep us posted

bnumair · 03/14/2018, 03:17 AM

here is a link to a guide i wrote to rid ich. its got few other links inside to other methods.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ide+to+rid+ich

nereefpat · 03/14/2018, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnumair

here is a link to a guide i wrote to rid ich. its got few other links inside to other methods.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ide+to+rid+ich

Do you think the OP's cardinals have ich?

ca1ore · 03/14/2018, 08:40 AM

Not flukes. Spots look a bit big to be classic ich, but it probably is. Assuming it is ich, either the new fish brought it in with them (regardless of what fish suppliers say, none do an adequate QT) or your tank already had it and the newcomers have not built up an immunity. That your resident fish show no symptoms suggests at least the possibility that these new ones will also develop immunity. I personally do not knee-jerk to treatment for ich; preferring to wait and see if it will pass. My current system has ich; new fish sometimes show spots but they pass and don't return (system has been this way for 5 years). Clearly if your resident fish start to show spots, that is a problem and treatment becomes your only practical course of action.

bnumair · 03/14/2018, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nereefpat

Do you think the OP's cardinals have ich?

Yes I am quite sure it's ich

anthonys51 · 03/14/2018, 01:15 PM

Don’t understand why online everyone says ich is a killer. My hippo and powder blue but had ich. 3 years later and 1 year later they are still growing and happy. Why is it such a killer is all these cases and mine it’s no big deal. Not here debating you shouldn’t qt or anything like that but I simple by Fish that been at my lfs for 2 weeks. He treats with Cooper. Then I put fish in my sump for a week or frag tank and then add to my main tank. Nothing special and in 3 years besides losing a few wrasses. My tank has been dead free. But with 15 wrasses then do fight a lot. After 18 months together my female melanarus finally decided she didn’t want to live with the male anymore.

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rjjr1963 · 03/14/2018, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonys51

Don’t understand why online everyone says ich is a killer. My hippo and powder blue but had ich. 3 years later and 1 year later they are still growing and happy. Why is it such a killer is all these cases and mine it’s no big deal. Not here debating you shouldn’t qt or anything like that but I simple by Fish that been at my lfs for 2 weeks. He treats with Cooper. Then I put fish in my sump for a week or frag tank and then add to my main tank. Nothing special and in 3 years besides losing a few wrasses. My tank has been dead free. But with 15 wrasses then do fight a lot. After 18 months together my female melanarus finally decided she didn’t want to live with the male anymore.

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I think there are variable issues involved that sometimes fish are able to withstand an infection. For the most part it will kill a fish but there are those rare instances when it does not. I had a clown and wrasse that survived but I have no idea why.

anthonys51 · 03/14/2018, 02:54 PM

It hasn’t claimed a single fish in my tank I have 70 Fish in 5 tanks. I have lost more fish jumping out then I did to ich. Just wish they did more research on it. I know a lot of hobbiest have something happen to them once and then they spread it around like it a fact. 20 years ago when I used to keep marine fish ich was a killer. Last 5 years I haven’t really worried too much about it

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anthonys51 · 03/14/2018, 02:56 PM

Also how many post on here go like this
Bought a new fish. Blame the lfs because it got ich and it dies. Must be lfs fault no other fish got ich.

Maybe that fish was ill for something else. Just saying wish people a lot smarter than me would do some research on this

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Tripod1404 · 03/14/2018, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonys51

Don’t understand why online everyone says ich is a killer. My hippo and powder blue but had ich. 3 years later and 1 year later they are still growing and happy. Why is it such a killer is all these cases and mine it’s no big deal. Not here debating you shouldn’t qt or anything like that but I simple by Fish that been at my lfs for 2 weeks. He treats with Cooper. Then I put fish in my sump for a week or frag tank and then add to my main tank. Nothing special and in 3 years besides losing a few wrasses. My tank has been dead free. But with 15 wrasses then do fight a lot. After 18 months together my female melanarus finally decided she didn’t want to live with the male anymore.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

IMO ich is not capable of killing a fish that is otherwise healthy and is living under ideal conditions. However, I am very wary about making statements like these since these would still be case sensitive and people often prefer comforting examples over their hars reality. Everybody likes to think they are keeping their fish under ideal conditions. But not everybody is and "ideal" , to most parts, is a vague concept for an aquarium. But overall, I agree with your statement. Dangers of ich is sometimes overstated, there are pathogens that are almost 100% death sentence to all the fish within the tank, ich is not one of them.

That being said, not everybody has tank that are "ideal" accept having ich. There is so many unseen event happening in our tank that we cant see or control. There is a whole micro ecosystem of protozoans, bacteria, fungi algae, viruses... where each inhabitant have certain roles. Same way ich prey on fish, there are protozoan predators and pathogens that prey on ich. I think this is one of the reasons why people who have new tanks are more inclined to lose fish to ich while fish usually do not die of ich in mature systems.

For fish to die of ich, it needs to reach plague levels and "puncture" the host fish so much that it loses the ability to regulate water within its body or get secondary infections. In mature systems, ich simply cannot reach plague levels. When ichs number increase, numbers of its predators and pathogens also increase, keeping the numbers in check. On top of that, there is a barrage of filter feeds and sand grazers that can passively consume ich at different stages of its life cycle. Again these guys are only found in large numbers in mature tanks. When ich cannot reach plague levels, host fish has the chance to develop immunity against the infection. So fish become asymptomatic to ich.

Overall, does this mean ich is cured? Most likely not, it is most likely still within the system and is still infecting fish at a low level. Ich is also present in natural environments of all these fish we keep and they all most likely get infected with ich. But they dont die since it doesn't reach plague levels in a healthy ecosystem. Remember, ich is a parasite, if it kills all available hosts, it will die as well. Ina healthy ecosystem, parasites do not kill healthy individuals.

There is also some anecdotall evidence that it might eventually disappear due to extensive inbreeding if no new ich strains are added for a long period of time. But I dont think anyone made a conclusive study on this.

anthonys51 · 03/14/2018, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

IMO ich is not capable of killing a fish that is otherwise healthy and is living under ideal conditions. However, I am very wary about making statements like these since these would still be case sensitive and people often prefer comforting examples over their hars reality. Everybody likes to think they are keeping their fish under ideal conditions. But not everybody is and "ideal" , to most parts, is a vague concept for an aquarium. But overall, I agree with your statement. Dangers of ich is sometimes overstated, there are pathogens that are almost 100% death sentence to all the fish within the tank, ich is not one of them.

That being said, not everybody has tank that are "ideal" accept having ich. There is so many unseen event happening in our tank that we cant see or control. There is a whole micro ecosystem of protozoans, bacteria, fungi algae, viruses... where each inhabitant have certain roles. Same way ich prey on fish, there are protozoan predators and pathogens that prey on ich. I think this is one of the reasons why people who have new tanks are more inclined to lose fish to ich while fish usually do not die of ich in mature systems.

For fish to die of ich, it needs to reach plague levels and "puncture" the host fish so much that it loses the ability to regulate water within its body or get secondary infections. In mature systems, ich simply cannot reach plague levels. When ichs number increase, numbers of its predators and pathogens also increase, keeping the numbers in check. On top of that, there is a barrage of filter feeds and sand grazers that can passively consume ich at different stages of its life cycle. Again these guys are only found in large numbers in mature tanks. When ich cannot reach plague levels, host fish has the chance to develop immunity against the infection. So fish become asymptomatic to ich.

Overall, does this mean ich is cured? Most likely not, it is most likely still within the system and is still infecting fish at a low level. Ich is also present in natural environments of all these fish we keep and they all most likely get infected with ich. But they dont die since it doesn't reach plague levels in a healthy ecosystem. Remember, ich is a parasite, if it kills all available hosts, it will die as well. Ina healthy ecosystem, parasites do not kill healthy individuals.

There is also some anecdotall evidence that it might eventually disappear due to extensive inbreeding if no new ich strains are added for a long period of time. But I dont think anyone made a conclusive study on this.

Very insightful. Thank you. Helps me understand a little better without knowing for sure. Well spoken and said

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HBtank · 03/14/2018, 04:04 PM

There will always be contradictions with ich, as IME very few people actually QT and tons of people have successful tanks using fish that are certain to carry it (as it is natural).

[1]People have acknowledged that ich is generally present on wild fish populations, but not fatal due to not reaching plauge levels that can occur in aquariums.

[2]It is well known to become fatal in aquariums, given the right conditions. The assumption is that those conditions are simply being a closed environment (i.e. Aquarium), but [3] below contradicts that.

[3]It is also known that seemingly many aquariums/fish become resistant and/or immune to ich.

The question for me is I have no idea how people differentiate between [1] and [3], other than perception. The assumption that just being in a closed environment will lead to ich fatalities seems false since there are plenty of examples that defy this (some openly brag about it), and it seems that some aquariums can exist as if ich would in its natural state (or even dissapear?).

People will also often speak of "it being hidden in the gills!" in any aquarium that may have had signs of ich but never treated it, but IMO that is simply perception with no direct evidence. The implication is that the fish are still being "hurt" somehow but that you just can't see it. It's a weird assumption, because if you think closed systems are the source the problem, arguing it is in some quasi state of being a "problem" but also not a problem... is kind of weird. Semi-plague? Mini persistent plague? Hmmmm....

I understand the drive to QT and employ methods to ensure [2] never happens, but there seems to be some real resistance from people to accept that [3] can and does happen frequently. Furthermore It often seems like the catastrophic [2] situation is often in tanks that employ the QT, but something "slips through the cracks". Makes me wonder is some tanks just become more prone to the severe issues when they are actually in an unnatural state (i.e. unlike [1]) of being completely ich free using strict QT procedures.

Anyway, I am in no way advocating not using QT as there is far more than ich to worry about, I just find ich to be in interesting as you have some people going to extremes (that frankly many people will never do for an average aquarium), and others who do nothing (and know its there) and both can be successful.

As for the OP, that looks like a serious case of ich and not good for those fish, I would at a minimum treat them.

03/13/2018, 08:04 AM	#1
LouB Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 38	Is this ICH? Ruby Reef to treat if no QT? I just got 2 orange striped cardinals about a week ago from Reef Escape in Fairfax, VA which claims to have a pretty good quarantine policy before they sell and release fish. That said, take a look at the pics and tell me if you think this is is ICH. I do. Fish 1 tuesday1.jpg Fish 2 Tuesday 2.jpg No other fish are presenting these symptoms. Also, I do not have a QT tank. Will Ruby Reef help cure this? Will it kill my corals as well? I've hear it won't.. Would definitely appreciate some insight... Thanks in advance!

03/13/2018, 08:22 AM	#2
LauraGreenImp Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Nashville Posts: 131	I’d say ich. It’s in your DT now, unfortunately. The remedy for ich is complex, you can find detailed instructions by using the R/C ‘search’ feature. Get a QT tank. I don’t have a huge home, or dedicated ‘fish room’ - my 20g QT is in the laundry room. A minor expenditure of time and money will save you SO much effort in the future. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro __________________ No glass box turns into a beautiful reef tank quickly. Current Tank Info: 150gT Mixed Reef - help me trap/remove/destroy my hateful Molly Miller Blennys!

03/13/2018, 09:29 AM	#4
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	It sure likes like it to me. There are exactly ZERO reef safe treatments for Ich. None. You choices are, in my order of preference, Tank Transfer Method (TTM), then Chloroquine Phosphate (CP), then Hyposalinity, and then, way down on the list, Copper. All require the use of a hospital tank or tanks. TTM is the least stressful to the fish and is 100% effective if done properly. It works because it disrupts the life cycle of the Ich parasite. It does require at least 2 separate tanks that need to be sterilized between uses. A simple cleaning with bleach and allowing it to dry will do the trick. Depending on fish size and number, it can easily be carried out in 5g buckets with a couple heaters and air stones (dispose of the airstones after use). CP will work just fine, but requires proper dosing. Hyposalinity can work, but MUST be carefully monitored for the duration of the treatment. Any slight rise in the salinity will reset the timeclock on the treatment. Although copper has been around for decades, it it TOXIC to all inhabitants. The trick is to maintain a proper dosage that is just below the lethal range for the fish while being above the lethal range for the parasite. An added problem is that many fish will not tolerate copper well, if at all. Regardless of your treatment plan, ALL fish in the tank MUST be treated at the same time while the DT remains fallow (fishless) for a minimum of 72 days. Leaving any in the DT will allow the Ich parasite to have an intermediate host even if the fish appears to be asymptomatic (Ich free) jm.02 __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

03/13/2018, 09:38 AM	#6
nereefpat Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 3,190	Looks like it to me too. I agree with the others about remedies. Treatment needs to be done in QT, and your options are TTM, hypo, or a couple choices for chemicals. __________________ Pat Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers

03/13/2018, 10:39 AM	#8
nereefpat Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 3,190	Ich does attach to feed, and then drops off to reproduce as part of its life cycle. __________________ Pat Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers

03/13/2018, 08:32 AM	#3
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	It could be, it could also be flukes which would many times fall off in a couple of days. IMO, watch carefully, if they stop eating, become lathargic, stop swimming as normal, then I would go with Ick. That requires your DT to remain without fish for 72 days, and all fish to be treated in a separate tank with either TTM, hypo, or copper.

03/13/2018, 09:38 AM	#5
reef cuber Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 100	That will help treat the fish, but in the mean time if it is ick, it's in his main tank too. I would pull all fish, treat them in a QT tank with what ever method you choose.. and let your main tank go fishless for at least two months... do water changes etc as normal. After your fish have been clear for 2 months, then put them back in the main tank. I use a QT tank, get one fish at a time, put in QT for two months and then move to main tank. Maybe that's extreme, but I have lost a lot of fish to ick prior to using this method. I also wouldn't wait to treat the fish, ick can kill the fish pretty quickly.

03/13/2018, 10:35 AM	#7
LouB Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 38	First of all, thank you everyone for responses... Re: flukes...Uncle...you know I wonder if it is flukes? Yesterday morning, they both had it all over them. I came home and was surprised to see that the spots no longer were there, so I called the aquarium store, and the guy said that maybe they were just air bubbles that fell off...I was happy but then looked closer at the one and figured it was ich...it didn't look as bad as it does today...today it looks bad...and so I'm inclined to think Ich even though they are not lathargic at all and seem to be eating fine... I don't have a QT. So, Ruby Reef Kick Ich isn't going to help? What do they sell that stuff for? My wife's going to kill me with another tank...I have 1 coral beauty 2 ocellaris clowns 1 firefish 1 diamond goby 1 royal gramma and the 2 ichy cardinals what would be the smallest setup for a QT tank I could do? It seems like you all think I should treat all fish in the QT...

03/13/2018, 10:42 AM	#9
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	Your going to hate this response but here goes. You are going to have to remove every fish, even the ones that are asymptomatic. Put them in a QT. You might be able to get away with QTing everyone together in a 40b. Treat the fish in the QT with the only four known ways. Copper Hyposalinity TTM chloroquine phosphate IMO either CP or TTM should be what you do. Copper and hypo are too difficult to get right. Then your display tank must remain fishless for 72-80 days. When your fish are crypto free and your tank has been fallow for the allotted time, you can introduce your now healthy crypto free fish into your crypto free display tank. Lesson learned. QT all of your animals. This headache could have been easily prevented. __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

03/13/2018, 10:50 AM	#10
LouB Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 38	Does the QT need: Substrate? Live Rock? Is a canister filter ok? What type of filtration is needed in a QT? Need a protein skimmer? My current setup is a 54 gal DT, fluval 306, eshops PSK-75, 30 pounds live rock, 25 dead rock, 2 orbit IC bars, live sand bottom

03/13/2018, 11:38 AM	#11
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	My QT consists of the following: 20g tank heater power head several PVC elbows for hiding places HOB filter with disposable cartridges (Marineland Emperor) eggcrate with fiberglass window screen ziptied to it to prevent jumpers What it doesn't have - lights, sand, rocks, skimmer - there is no need for any of these things. I keep water parameters in check by doing a 5g water change every other day using water from my frag tank. My TTM equipment is this: 3 x 5g buckets 3 x 50w heaters 3 x air pumps /stones The buckets and heaters are cleaned between uses with bleach, then rinsed and allowed to air dry. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

03/13/2018, 12:12 PM	#12
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	I have viewed the pics again and I still can’t confirm ick. If your fish have stopped eating, eyes bulged, rapid respiratory, any of these three then yes to ick, perhaps others have better resolution than me. If you decide treatment is what you need, then Hypo is not hard, and I have tried both hypo and cupramine with 100% success. Last week we did a clown for a customer which had ick for at least 12 days, used cupramine on him as we feel that once this far advanced we go for meds, in 7 days, ick gone. Your DT must go fallow for 72 days, that’s the standard.

03/13/2018, 12:44 PM	#14
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	Once ick is confirmed, as you believe, all fish must be moved to QT, and treatment is the choice of the hobbyist. Good luck, when treating always try to feed, we feed with a syringe and airline hise, one piece at a time, and then suck up what they don’t or can’t eat so we do not foul the water. Since the tank is not cycled, ammonia is now your enemy so partial changes are necessary Keep us posted

03/14/2018, 03:17 AM	#15
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	here is a link to a guide i wrote to rid ich. its got few other links inside to other methods. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ide+to+rid+ich __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

03/14/2018, 08:40 AM	#17
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Not flukes. Spots look a bit big to be classic ich, but it probably is. Assuming it is ich, either the new fish brought it in with them (regardless of what fish suppliers say, none do an adequate QT) or your tank already had it and the newcomers have not built up an immunity. That your resident fish show no symptoms suggests at least the possibility that these new ones will also develop immunity. I personally do not knee-jerk to treatment for ich; preferring to wait and see if it will pass. My current system has ich; new fish sometimes show spots but they pass and don't return (system has been this way for 5 years). Clearly if your resident fish start to show spots, that is a problem and treatment becomes your only practical course of action. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

03/14/2018, 01:15 PM	#19
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	Don’t understand why online everyone says ich is a killer. My hippo and powder blue but had ich. 3 years later and 1 year later they are still growing and happy. Why is it such a killer is all these cases and mine it’s no big deal. Not here debating you shouldn’t qt or anything like that but I simple by Fish that been at my lfs for 2 weeks. He treats with Cooper. Then I put fish in my sump for a week or frag tank and then add to my main tank. Nothing special and in 3 years besides losing a few wrasses. My tank has been dead free. But with 15 wrasses then do fight a lot. After 18 months together my female melanarus finally decided she didn’t want to live with the male anymore. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

03/14/2018, 02:54 PM	#21
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	It hasn’t claimed a single fish in my tank I have 70 Fish in 5 tanks. I have lost more fish jumping out then I did to ich. Just wish they did more research on it. I know a lot of hobbiest have something happen to them once and then they spread it around like it a fact. 20 years ago when I used to keep marine fish ich was a killer. Last 5 years I haven’t really worried too much about it Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

03/14/2018, 02:56 PM	#22
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	Also how many post on here go like this Bought a new fish. Blame the lfs because it got ich and it dies. Must be lfs fault no other fish got ich. Maybe that fish was ill for something else. Just saying wish people a lot smarter than me would do some research on this Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

03/14/2018, 04:04 PM	#25
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	There will always be contradictions with ich, as IME very few people actually QT and tons of people have successful tanks using fish that are certain to carry it (as it is natural). [1]People have acknowledged that ich is generally present on wild fish populations, but not fatal due to not reaching plauge levels that can occur in aquariums. [2]It is well known to become fatal in aquariums, given the right conditions. The assumption is that those conditions are simply being a closed environment (i.e. Aquarium), but [3] below contradicts that. [3]It is also known that seemingly many aquariums/fish become resistant and/or immune to ich. The question for me is I have no idea how people differentiate between [1] and [3], other than perception. The assumption that just being in a closed environment will lead to ich fatalities seems false since there are plenty of examples that defy this (some openly brag about it), and it seems that some aquariums can exist as if ich would in its natural state (or even dissapear?). People will also often speak of "it being hidden in the gills!" in any aquarium that may have had signs of ich but never treated it, but IMO that is simply perception with no direct evidence. The implication is that the fish are still being "hurt" somehow but that you just can't see it. It's a weird assumption, because if you think closed systems are the source the problem, arguing it is in some quasi state of being a "problem" but also not a problem... is kind of weird. Semi-plague? Mini persistent plague? Hmmmm.... I understand the drive to QT and employ methods to ensure [2] never happens, but there seems to be some real resistance from people to accept that [3] can and does happen frequently. Furthermore It often seems like the catastrophic [2] situation is often in tanks that employ the QT, but something "slips through the cracks". Makes me wonder is some tanks just become more prone to the severe issues when they are actually in an unnatural state (i.e. unlike [1]) of being completely ich free using strict QT procedures. Anyway, I am in no way advocating not using QT as there is far more than ich to worry about, I just find ich to be in interesting as you have some people going to extremes (that frankly many people will never do for an average aquarium), and others who do nothing (and know its there) and both can be successful. As for the OP, that looks like a serious case of ich and not good for those fish, I would at a minimum treat them. __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA Last edited by HBtank; 03/14/2018 at 04:18 PM.