valentini puffer white spots

[Tyler438]

Guys, My puffer has white spots, I didn't notice them as much until yesterday.1st picture is day one when I got him 2nd picture is yesterday. Is this normal? He seems to be doing fine.

[Rover88]

That looks like Ich to me. Is he in a quarantine tank?

[Tyler438]

Originally Posted by Rover88

That looks like Ich to me. Is he in a quarantine tank?

no, he is in the main tank, I can quarantine him tonight, any suggestions on how to get rid of it? I have a UV filter on that tank will that help? None of the other fish have it.

[Rover88]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1992196

Read that thread... Also, this is IF I AM RIGHT that it is ich. It sure looks like Ich, but someone with more experience then me might chime in with something else.

If it is...

Unfortunately, your entire display tank now has ich. Those little white dots are the parasite 'budding' up, and when it falls off it encysts in the sand below. It will then multiply into a hundred plus fresh ones, that will infect the rest of your fish, and repeat the cycle.

Treatment involves moving all fish out of the display, and leave your display tank fallow (without FISH) for 72 days or so. Some people will tell you different numbers.

Once the fish are isolated, you can try a copper based medication, tank transfer method, or hyposalinity. Those three are the /only/ way to cure a fish of Ich. Those methods should be discussed more in the above link.


I'm in the middle of this process myself. Unfortunately, this is what we get for not quarantining... If you had placed him in quarantine for a few weeks and noticed them then, it is very easy to treat and your display would have been safe. Sadly, not so much now.

I feel your pain!

[tjm9331]

Yup I agree it definitely looks like ich...if you don't quarantine you should at the very least put your new fish through tank transfer method. This is the least stressful method of making sure your new fish is ich free before putting it in the DT.

Rover is right your options are limited, you could try feeding the fish with garlic soaked food and see if they can fight off the parasite, so long as they are still eating. There are some so called reef safe chemicals that supposedly rid the tank of ich, don't fall for these claims they are basically snake oil.

The best course of action is to remove all your fish and put them through TTM then placed in a quarantine tank until the main display is finished with it's fallow period of at least 72 days. 72 days is the longest ich has been documented to survive in a tank, some will tell you that you can go for a shorter period but its always better to be safe than sorry.

[CSmooth2009]

Get a cleaner shrimp it’ll handle that ich real quick. It’s a scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp. It’ll probably save ur fish life


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[Uncle99]

Cleaner shrimp will not solve your Ick problem.
You need to do two things:

Remove ALL fish from your DT and put in a QT tank for treatment, the quicker the better.
Your DT must now remain without fish for 72 days. At the end of this time, Ick in the DT is gone.

Treat fish in one of three ways which are posted on this site, TTM is what quite a few do, Hypo, is second in line, third is cupramine. I have done all three over the years and if you follow instructions exactly, your fish should be free of Ick by the time your DT is clean. Likely sooner, but you'll need your DT clean before you put them back in. Make sure you feed well even if they don't eat much, feeding increases their ability to fight the parasite. Vacuum up uneaten food so ammonia does not build in your QT. it does not need to be cycled, but you must keep regular water changes and watch ammonia.

If it is Ick (and yup, that sure looks that way) only the above three ways may save them.

Good luck.

[nereefpat]

Originally Posted by CSmooth2009

Get a cleaner shrimp it’ll handle that ich real quick. It’s a scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp. It’ll probably save ur fish life


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What incredibly terrible advice. Are you a shrimp salesman?

[CSmooth2009]

Originally Posted by nereefpat

What incredibly terrible advice. Are you a shrimp salesman?

Where does it say that I am a shrimp sales man?
And where did I say that solves the problem??

I am not a fan medicating anything in my systems. Ich has a short life period and if the cleaner shrimp can keep most of the ich off and at bay. Then the ich goes away. Where does it say that medications are the cure all and the fish will live 100% of the time? Don’t be a female dog when someone offers advice that has worked for them selves. The shrimp worked for me with two different systems.


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[Uncle99]

There is some evidence that a cleaner may pick at the surface parasites, the ones that are going to fall off and replicate in your DT by 100-200 times, then find the next host to feed off off. If it solved your past problem, maybe it was flukes, it's the replication that makes Ick so dangerous.

[CSmooth2009]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

There is some evidence that a cleaner may pick at the surface parasites, the ones that are going to fall off and replicate in your DT by 100-200 times, then find the next host to feed off off. If it solved your past problem, maybe it was flukes, it's the replication that makes Ick so dangerous.

I agree with you.. it’s mainly the surface stuff they get at... and warming up the temp accelerates the process.. medicating will help as well.. I have multiple friends that have reef tanks with a lot of fish... adding just the shrimp helped knocked out the ich problem... I’m not gunna sit here and say I know everything cause I don’t... but experience helps give other people advice on what worked with them personally... this person can do what they want... it’s up to them...


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[Rover88]

Originally Posted by CSmooth2009

Where does it say that I am a shrimp sales man?
And where did I say that solves the problem??

I am not a fan medicating anything in my systems. Ich has a short life period and if the cleaner shrimp can keep most of the ich off and at bay. Then the ich goes away. Where does it say that medications are the cure all and the fish will live 100% of the time? Don’t be a female dog when someone offers advice that has worked for them selves. The shrimp worked for me with two different systems.


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Shrimp can not 'kill' off Ich. What they can do is pick at the parasites that are JUST about to fall off.

The issue is that the most common place for Ich to manifest is within your fish' gills. And there is no way a cleaner shrimp will catch that.

Also, Ich only shows up as the 'white bumps' AFTER it has been feeding on and hosted within the fish for a few days, its the final stage before it drops off to reproduce. No amount of cleaner shrimp will catch all of these.

If you 'beat' Ich this way you were fortunate enough to have hardy fish that fought off the parasite, or you still have a mild case of it living within your fishes gills where you (And the shrimp) can not see. It is not 'gone', and will likely flare up if you have a stresser event that strains your fishes immune system.


Aquarium hobbyists claiming 'it worked for me' without knowing what the life cycle of Ich is, whether its still in their tanks, what the cause of it receding was, or what actually treats it are why there is so much misinformation about it around.


Please read the thread I posted in this for the OP.

[Uncle99]

One of the issues in treating including the cleaner is that it would comprimise all three of the known ways to solve Ick. You would have to transfer the cleaner in TTM, (which defies the whole intention of TTM and QT) and hypo and cupramine would kill the cleaner.

You can't really solve this in the DT because of the parasites ability to replicate 100 of times each round, the cleaner is just not that efficient, and what about the ones that have already fallen off.

I agree with the above assessment that while the cleaner shrimp picked at surface parasites, natural immunity was the solve in your case and that the immunity lasted throughout the fallow period so the DT was cleaned as well.

It's critical to QT fish immediately and start treatment. In this way, 90% of fish live.

[Tyler438]

Thanks for all the advice I will get a QT tank set-up tonight and start this journey. Think it would help to run the uv filter in the QT tank?

[tjm9331]

Originally Posted by Tyler438

Guys, My puffer has white spots, I didn't notice them as much until yesterday.1st picture is day one when I got him 2nd picture is yesterday. Is this normal? He seems to be doing fine.

So Tyler, there ya go a few opinions on what you can do to help your fish recover. It's up to you which course of action you want to take, at the end of the day it's your fish, your tank.

I can tell you from experience that the 72 day fishless period and TTM work 99.99% of the time.

And obviously from CSmooth's experience, cleaner shrimp worked for him but I can pretty much guarantee you that the shrimp won't eradicate the parasite, it will most likely only control it.

[Rover88]

Originally Posted by Tyler438

Thanks for all the advice I will get a QT tank set-up tonight and start this journey. Think it would help to run the uv filter in the QT tank?

You do not need it, but it will not hurt. (That I'm aware of at least). I'd leave it on your display if it was already there. I believe I read that freefloating Ich that goes through it will die.

If you are treating with Hypo, that is supposed to kill free floating ich, as is copper/cupramine. In TTM, the whole point is to transfer without moving the freefloating ich around.

Do you know what method of treatment you are going with?

I went with Cupramine myself, as I lack the space/equipment/schedule to properly do a TTM, and I wasn't sure I could easily handle hyposalinity.

[accel]

TTM worked for me. I bought two cheapo plastic containers from a hardware store. Added 1.025 salt, airline tubing, airstone, and air pump.

Before 3 days, I use the next container and clean the used one. And repeat.

Well I cheated actually. I bought 10 containers for 10 dollars. So I don't have to clean them right after and just use new ones.

[CSmooth2009]

Originally Posted by tjm9331

So Tyler, there ya go a few opinions on what you can do to help your fish recover. It's up to you which course of action you want to take, at the end of the day it's your fish, your tank.



I can tell you from experience that the 72 day fishless period and TTM work 99.99% of the time.



And obviously from CSmooth's experience, cleaner shrimp worked for him but I can pretty much guarantee you that the shrimp won't eradicate the parasite, it will most likely only control it.

Agreed. My way may not have been the best way. It just worked in my few cases.


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[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by accel

TTM worked for me. I bought two cheapo plastic containers from a hardware store. Added 1.025 salt, airline tubing, airstone, and air pump.

Before 3 days, I use the next container and clean the used one. And repeat.

Well I cheated actually. I bought 10 containers for 10 dollars. So I don't have to clean them right after and just use new ones.

Cheating is OK, kinda like production line TTM.
Maybe next time I will make a whole bunch of 1.009 for Hypo!

[Tyler438]

Originally Posted by Rover88

You do not need it, but it will not hurt. (That I'm aware of at least). I'd leave it on your display if it was already there. I believe I read that freefloating Ich that goes through it will die.

If you are treating with Hypo, that is supposed to kill free floating ich, as is copper/cupramine. In TTM, the whole point is to transfer without moving the freefloating ich around.

Do you know what method of treatment you are going with?

I went with Cupramine myself, as I lack the space/equipment/schedule to properly do a TTM, and I wasn't sure I could easily handle hyposalinity.

I think I will go with the cupramine method as well, Seems the easiest for a noob.

[Rover88]

Sounds fair, thats what I did. Hold on a second...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2635979

Have a look through that. Some fish don't tolerate Cupramine/Copper well.


Best of luck!

[nereefpat]

Originally Posted by CSmooth2009

Where does it say that I am a shrimp sales man? It's a joke, and the only reason I could come up with for giving such advice.
And where did I say that solves the problem??

Here

Originally Posted by CSmooth2009

Get a cleaner shrimp it’ll handle that ich real quick. It’s a scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp. It’ll probably save ur fish life


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[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by Tyler438

I think I will go with the cupramine method as well, Seems the easiest for a noob.

Cupramine works well on hardy species but can be problematic on delicates like tangs. If you go with cupramine, you must stay within manufactures guideline of dosage less will not work, more will kill the fish.

I have used both cupramine and hypo on damsels, especially clowns, etc.

I cant stress feeding enough....it's as important as treatment. I used a syringe and frozen brine and fed them twice a day, one piece at a time. They may have stopped eating, or will stop, or eat and spit, don't worry, just keep it up.

You may consider lowering salinity to 1.021 or 1.022, this will aid in respiration.

Just remember when finished, take it upwards real slow at no more than .002 per day.

Treat, feed, water change, watch ammonia, put some PVC angles as hiding places, low light is fine

[tjm9331]

I'm not 100% sure but I'm fairly certain that puffers are sensitive to copper treatment. I had a porcupine puffer at one point (lost him to ich, before I learned about TTM )

I had read during that time that puffers were sensitive to copper treatment. I would make sure you do your research on the valentini before going forward with the cupramine

[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by tjm9331

I'm not 100% sure but I'm fairly certain that puffers are sensitive to copper treatment. I had a porcupine puffer at one point (lost him to ich, before I learned about TTM )

I had read during that time that puffers were sensitive to copper treatment. I would make sure you do your research on the valentini before going forward with the cupramine

Above is very good advice...always check before meds used