Voogle + Ick Treatment

[rmjj21]

Has anyone ever used an ick treatment called "voogle?" My buddy at the LFS told me about it but he wasn't sure how it was spelled. He said that alot of scepticle reefers have sworn by this stuff to get the ick off their fish. I figured I would ask the experts where I can find this stuff and if I am spelling it right. Thanks.

[Sharpie_]

I've never heard of the stuff but for the most part nothing in this hobby happens quickly. If the fish is in your system, good husbandry and feedings will help it come over it. If it's still in QT treat it with typical medications and again keep up with proper care and it will come out in the end.

[James404]

The only known cures for crypt are Copper, Hypo and the tank transfer method. What your buddy was referring to was



http://www.easylife.nl/english/marin...le_marine.html


Snake oil in my opinion.

[bertoni]

That product does sound suspicious to me, to say the least.

[tmz]

Very dubious claims. Quarantine with, coper,hyposlainity or tank transfer with a fishless display for 72 days works.Otherwise , the fish may or may not survive and ich will persist in the tank indefinitely even if the surviving fish are not showing symptoms.

[rmjj21]

72 days or 72 hours? Thank you for your help all.

[bertoni]

Days.

[rmjj21]

I heard other reefers in my area claim that this stuff is amazing. I bought two big bottles. I am going to treat my tank with Voogle just before I end my cycle of kick ick. Voogle should boosts the fishes immune system to prefent future outbreaks while the kick ick finishes killing the remaining ick in the tank. It's worth a shot right??? I will let you know how it works.

[James404]

Originally Posted by rmjj21

I heard other reefers in my area claim that this stuff is amazing. I bought two big bottles. I am going to treat my tank with Voogle just before I end my cycle of kick ick. Voogle should boosts the fishes immune system to prefent future outbreaks while the kick ick finishes killing the remaining ick in the tank. It's worth a shot right??? I will let you know how it works.

Don't expect to rid your tank of the parasite with these treatments, as said earlier, the only proven methods are Copper, Hypo or tank transfer method.

[3rdimension]

I have been trying hypo for almost 2 months now. I think crypto and or velvet might be in their gills since they've been breathing harder, darting, scratching and shaking their heads vigorously for the past week and it's been in hypo for about 3 weeks now. They were doing well for a while, but now they've broken out with something else. So since hypo doesn't treat everything, I decided to pick up a bottle of Voogle to help boost their natural immune system, as it claims it does. I hope so. I hate to see my fish stress and struggle like this and I may lose one of my butterfly's tonight since I went too long without any chemical treatments and hoping hypo would eventually kill what they've been struggling with. In the mean time, I'm going to start slowly raising the salinity again and start using other treatments that won't suppress appetites, and won't kill the biological bacteria. Any suggestions for a Just fish tank? no inverts.

[tmz]

Sometimes hypo doesn't work;just slows things down.. There are resistant strains of ich. Velvet is a quick killer ,so I doubt it's that . Likely ich is persisting. I'd use a tank transfer treatment or copper. Flukes might also be an issue , in which case treatment with prazi pro would be helpful .For quick relief , a fresh water dip for several minutes can remove some of the parasites from their gills

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've not ever heard of anyone using it. It claims to be

Made with a special mixture of vitamins, minerals, natural plant extracts and synthetic concentrates, Voogle quickly strengthens the immune system of freshwater and marine aquarium fish. A healthy immune system is essential to the natural healing process of fish with white spot (Ich), Cryptocaryon, Columnaris, fungal and bacterial skin infections, and other external diseases.

That sounds like something I wouldn't waste my money on.


Think of it this way, is there any product clearly known to boost the immune system in humans? No. Why not? Thousands of braniac scientists around the world have been trying to understand the immune system for decades, and no such product exists.

So do we think it reasonable that some company can throw together a bunch of off the shelf vitamins, minerals and plant sap and get something that works on all freshwater and marine fish?

To belive so boggles the imagination, IMO.

[3rdimension]

echinacea, protein and vitamin C does help promote healthy immune systems. why else would fish love to naturally eat brine, mysis, and algae packed with vitamin C? why else would different fish foods be packed with vitamin C? It's worth a shot for now. In the mean time I'm planning on grabbing some other stuff that won't kill the bacteria or suppress their appetite. That would mean to stay clear of anything with copper in it. I've killed many fish several years ago using copper-safe and other meds with copper sulfate in it. Don't wanna go down that rout.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Originally Posted by 3rdimension

echinacea, protein and vitamin C does help promote healthy immune systems. why else would fish love to naturally eat brine, mysis, and algae packed with vitamin C? why else would different fish foods be packed with vitamin C? .

Ice cream, steaks, and Bailey's Irish Cream all help promote healthy immune systems. Why else would I love to naturally eat them packed with fat as they are?

Does that make sense to you?

If not, then I suggest your statement shouldn't either. You are just buying into the unproven claims that those things (any of them) boost the immune system (of fish or people).

[EpicWin]

Metranitozole will also work in helping to cure ich.

[3rdimension]

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in our Easy-Life Products.
Voogle does not overactivate the skimmer, and a UV sterilizer is no problem for this product. You could keep both running if you wish. Voogle is a health product, not a medication. It works from the inside out, and strengthens the immune system from fish by, among other things, suppressing the stress responses they have.

It would be best to dose Voogle the first 5 days, and wait another 5 to 7 days before it can take hold. Until that time no water changes or putting back in any adsorbant material (active carbon, etc) is recommended.


Best regards,

Easy Life International BV
The Netherlands
www.easylife.nl

[3rdimension]

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[tmz]

It will not help ich . Not much else to say. Dallying with it in lieu of an effective treatment cuts the odds for your fish to survive. .
There is a new ich elixir hitting the market every 6mos or so. Sales benefit from the natural placebo effect ; some fish naturally survive less virulent strains of ich and some develop partial immunity wtih or without the elixir. Some survive the first infestation and succumb to a more massive outbreak later.
The only proven mainstream treatments for cryptocaryon irritans are: copper, hypo salinity and the med free tank transfer method ; hypo fails often,ime and won't do anything for velvet( amyloodinium).
The ich parasite is an equal opportunity killer, it attacks healthy and stressed fish whether they are well fed or not.

Copper is very effective against both ich and velvet at therapeutic doses.. Copper sulfate does suppress the biofilter sort term ,about 20% according the the manufacturer of the product I've used . Bound copper medications less so. I've used copper sulfate as well as cupramine many times without ammonia spikes or fish deaths and have saved fish from ich reinfestations with it.

Alternatively removing the fish and providing tank transfer treatment for ich works very well and is med free. FWIW it is the method I prefer. It involves using at least two tanks with gentle transfer of the fish every 3 days for 4 transfers. All of the parasites in the fish leave within three to seven days and take 3 to 28 days to go to the bottom and form new attackers. This method simply leaves them all behind with no fish to attack until the tank and equipment is thoroughly dried which kills them at any stage in their life cycle.

The tank needs to be left fishless for 72 days as some tomite cysts have remained viable for that long in one study . Most likely 60 days or even less would eradicate them but 72 is safer. If it's a fish only tank a copper treatment with carefully monitored levels and ammonia monitoring could work very well faster. However, the rock substrate and other items in the tank would not be safe for use in any tank housing invertebrates due to residiual copper.

FWIW it is the method I prefer. It involves using at least two tanks with gentle transfer of the fish every 3 days for 4 transfers. All of the parasites in the fish leave within three to seven days and take 3 to 28 days to go to the bottom and form new atackers. This method simply leaves them all behind .

[tmz]

Originally Posted by EpicWin

Metranitozole will also work in helping to cure ich.

Well, it kills anaerobic bacteria(so I doubt it's safe for the biofilter) and sensitive protozoa and has some scary side effects inculding adverse effects to the central nervous system. Since it's taken up by diffusion I'm not at all sure it's reef safe or effective against the protoist crytocaryon irritans since it may or may not be sensitive to it. . Probably would have no effect on the dinoflagellate velvet. Do your have links to material I can read on treatment protocols for marine ich. I'd like to know more about it; maybe it's useful in certain applications.

[tmz]

It is rude to promote a product that will not help and then attack some one who knows better as rude and condescending.
Voogle is useless for ich teatment or prevention.

This parasite has been well studied. There is much out there to read about if you want to understand it. It would be courteous to do so for the benefit of informed discussion.
There is a lot of carnage in this hobby and much of it is perpetuated by elixir profiteers. Some of us do get passionate about it from time to time but it's in the interest of helping folks succeed in keeping healthy animals.
BTW , I'll take advice on medications and reef chemistry from Randy anytime; he is without question the head master of reef chemistry with credentials , publications and a patient teaching style to go with it.

Randy please stop the food references. I just lost 55lbs over the last 6 mos by avoiding that ice cream and steak; got back to my wieght out of basic training and solved my blood pressure problem but I still want it all the time.Do you think I should eat some to build my immunity to a potential portozoan infection or something?

[Dino]

3rdimension - keep this civil. I'm pretty sure Randy being a very well respected and high level Chemist knows exactly what he is talking about . Additionally the URL in your signature line has been removed, we don't allow URLs in signatures.

Thanks,
-Dino
RC MOD

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by tmz

Very dubious claims. Quarantine with, coper,hyposlainity or tank transfer with a fishless display for 72 days works.Otherwise , the fish may or may not survive and ich will persist in the tank indefinitely even if the surviving fish are not showing symptoms.

Exactly.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Ice cream, steaks, and Bailey's Irish Cream all help promote healthy immune systems. Why else would I love to naturally eat them packed with fat as they are?

Yes they do. My diet exactly. And I do not have ich either.

[Habib]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Ice cream, steaks, and Bailey's Irish Cream all help promote healthy immune systems. Why else would I love to naturally eat them packed with fat as they are?

Does that make sense to you?

........

Thank you for my new sig line!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Always glad to entertain you, Habib.