Biodiversity: A conversation

[Subsea]

As a Subsea Engineer on underwater blowout preventers, I was, amongst other things, responsible for inspecting marine riser and underwater blowout preventer in the Gulf of Mexico with a camera that I lowered down to inspect subsea bop (blow out preventer). Once, while drilling near the mouth of the Mississippi River, I encountered so much biodiversity in the water column, it was impossible to inspect under the water. I had at most 5 seconds of visuals, after I turned on camera lights. So much stuff got in front of light at 500’, it was impossible to know what you were looking at.

[ReefkeeperZ]

I think thats a bit more than I'm looking to achieve in my tank, lol

[ReefkeeperZ]

so some pretty cool methods and thoughts so far.

I'm going to touch on ways of introducing more biodiversity to your tank. now keep in mind these are in no particular order just as they come into my head. and yes you can absolutley quarantine any one of these 5-6 would be challenging but not impossible to QT

1: sand swap with some one that has an established long time tank, obviously if there tank has been up for years the microfauna has had time to establish itself into colonies throughout the sand bed and you can introduce many forms of life that live in our sand.

2: live rock from the ocean, lots of neat things can live on that some who live near the oceans drop some rock in and go recollect it after aging it in the ocean. a lot of manufactured rock distributers do that as well. but i'm not sure how long they leave it in the ocean judging by the manufactured rock I've seen not very long becuase it's generally just spirorbid worms and micro feather dusters on it, of course the longer you leave it the more life has a chance to move into it.

3: Live rock from some one else tank, much like sand certain denizens of our micro-biome live their entire lives crawling in and around or growing on rock.

4: macro algae bought from distributor or some one else tank, great way to introduce copepods and other buggers

5: sump sludge that nasty goopy gloop that settles out in random corers of sumps is home to a whole host of bacterias and micro bugs as it's both a food source and breeding ground loaded with nutrients for new and sustaining life

6: small sample of skimmate ( just a couple ML) lots of microfauna and eggs as well as bacteria and other planktons (both zoo and phyto) get scooped up by our skimmer so that's an often unthought of source for potential new life.

7: sponge, if you throw a filter sponge in some ones sump for a couple weeks (just letting it sit there doesn't have to be run as a filter) a lot of things will move into the porous structure because its a great place to live. so its a super cheap way to snag some life from some ones tank without haveing the mess of sand or sacrificing any rock.

8: ocean sand/mud go grab a couple scoops from the ocean somewhere (as long as it's legal and you can get to it) that's a plethora of life in a couple cups.

Can anyone think of any I have missed?

[OrionN]

Very fresh skimmate is fine, but after a few hours sitting there the decomposing organic will kill everything.
Way back when the LFS life sand tank were actually live sand, I went around to all the LFS when ever I go to a city and bought a pound of sand from each of the store to put in my sand bed.
We had reefer meeting where we each bought several sand bag in zip-lock bags to trade with each other.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by Subsea

What can I say? It works for me. After 45 years of reefkeeping, I am not likely to change.

Wasn't being critical .... just unclear Everything has something that eats it - I have always wondered if aspiring to greater biodiversity could mean an ich predator.

[ca1ore]

Another thing ..... mostly thinking out loud ...

Novice reefers seem to worry more about detritus than do experienced ones; at least based on my anecdotal observations. I don't run filter socks; indeed no purpose mechanical filtration at all. I don't worry about detritus building up (other than aesthetic objections) because I figure it's mostly mineralized and what organics remain are excellent food for the small folk. I suspect the OCD removal of detritus is actually counterproductive? For example, detritus builds up disproportionately in my frag tank and is home to thousands of those white micro stars.

[sde1500]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Another thing ..... mostly thinking out loud ...

Novice reefers seem to worry more about detritus than do experienced ones; at least based on my anecdotal observations. I don't run filter socks; indeed no purpose mechanical filtration at all. I don't worry about detritus building up (other than aesthetic objections) because I figure it's mostly mineralized and what organics remain are excellent food for the small folk. I suspect the OCD removal of detritus is actually counterproductive? For example, detritus builds up disproportionately in my frag tank and is home to thousands of those white micro stars.

current tank is almost 2 years old, removed the filter sock after a few months, everything has just been building on the bottom since then. Amphipods, copepods, small feather dusters and other things are all over my sump. I believe I read somewhere that Randy Holmes-Farley had said detritus is mostly inert and not releasing anything in the tank within a very short period of time.

[johara]

I love this conversation and it’s quite timely for me. My favorite tank was up for almost 20 years, had a deep sand bed, rarely had a functioning protein skimmer and an incredible array of micro fauna. I kept “difficult” fish and corals fairly easily though of course I had plenty of crises as well. Water changes were a bit sporadic in those busy years.

Five years ago we decided to replace the floor the 155 gallon tank was on. I fell for the minimal sand bed, heavily skimmed bandwagon and even though I moved everything but the old sand into the new tank the biodiversity died off bit by bit. At night with a flashlight I see no amphipods and minimal feather dusters and other worms. Long story short I have a very boring (to me) tank and want to switch back to my old fashioned ways again.

After that ramble, my question is, what advice do you have for re-introducing a variety of life? Add in a deep sand bed again? Stick with the shallow bed but add commercially bred copepods etc? Add some rubble from my locally available (but cold) San Francisco Bay? The only fish I have now are clowns and Allen’s damsels so no real predators while I rebuild the ecosystem. Would hermit crabs help or hurt at this stage? Any and all advice welcomed!

[ReefkeeperZ]

I would start by deepening my sand bed, then doing some sand swaps with some local area reefers that run DSB, add a mud container in the dark part of my sump, beg a local reefer to suck some sludge out of their sump for me, add a fuge type area for algae growth thus pods and others have places to live and breed.

My tank has 2 types of DSB in it I have Oolitic sand containers in the sump both over 6 inches deep and I have an aragonite DSB in the display. plus it has a mud with aragonite cap container that 5 inches deep. I have a rubble pile in my sump and I make sure to never disturb it so mulm builds up in it. creating areas for life to breed free of predation is one of the easiest ways to help your diversity. I did list a bunch of ways to introduce diversity above so any of those methods will hellp bring your tank back to life.

[ReefkeeperZ]

I do sort of clean the sludge out of other parts of my sump during water changes but I dont go all OCD and wipe it barren.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by johara

I love this conversation and it’s quite timely for me. My favorite tank was up for almost 20 years, had a deep sand bed, rarely had a functioning protein skimmer and an incredible array of micro fauna. I kept “difficult” fish and corals fairly easily though of course I had plenty of crises as well. Water changes were a bit sporadic in those busy years.

Five years ago we decided to replace the floor the 155 gallon tank was on. I fell for the minimal sand bed, heavily skimmed bandwagon and even though I moved everything but the old sand into the new tank the biodiversity died off bit by bit. At night with a flashlight I see no amphipods and minimal feather dusters and other worms. Long story short I have a very boring (to me) tank and want to switch back to my old fashioned ways again.

After that ramble, my question is, what advice do you have for re-introducing a variety of life? Add in a deep sand bed again? Stick with the shallow bed but add commercially bred copepods etc? Add some rubble from my locally available (but cold) San Francisco Bay? The only fish I have now are clowns and Allen’s damsels so no real predators while I rebuild the ecosystem. Would hermit crabs help or hurt at this stage? Any and all advice welcomed!

Hermits would hurt at this stage and IMO, hermits would prey on many sand bed life forms. I never include hermits in CUC.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Wasn't being critical .... just unclear Everything has something that eats it - I have always wondered if aspiring to greater biodiversity could mean an ich predator.

While I have never tried fish as predators, I have had mixed results with Peppermint Shrimp. I added three Peppermint Shrimp to a small tank with a moderate Aptasia problem. One of the three eat Aptasia. After a couple of weeks, the Aptasia eating shrimp took on a very nice orange color. Something differrent for certain.

[Subsea]

At one post in this thread, the scenario for “survival of the fittest” was introduced to describe a natural progression for dominance in a specific micro ninche. The back wall of my 75G twenty five year old Jaubert Plenum is an example that took 5 years to grow. Lights on for 10 minutes.

The natural progression of things could be interrupted with aquascaping alone. I have a diver collected live rock for eight years in the same place. Recent major aquascaping now has two differrent macro cultivators growing. The wine cup has not been seen for 7 years.

https://www.marineplantbook.com/marinebookwineglass.htm

[FoxFace Fish]

Honestly I love this thread it just gives every ones view point on reef keeping. But honestly my reef tank is not the best I kinda figured it out by trial and error before I discovered this sight. I used books for the first 2 or 3 years (keep in mind that was only 4 years ago)

but I honestly can say at the end of the day every one will have there own preference on the right way to do a tank. for some people algae breaks out get chemicals others are water changes and check water quality and some are manual removing and waiting it out.

Same thing I guess with the life in the tank (biodiversity is to big of a word for a highschooler) I work and maintain the schools FOWLR and also my own reef tanks. And it is different for everything.

For the school they want results fast and when I took over the first question they asked is "can we just nuke the tank with copper or something" I honestly said it is up to them if they want to nuke it. They just want to see the pretty fish and the snails and crabs. they don't want to get down into the grit and see snails, crabs,fish,algea,tube worms, bristle worms (they wanted those gone...They live in one of my reefs now)

Or for me at my own house where I scrap every dime I have into my tank by making it as populated as possible I love the concept of Corals,Fish,Crabs,Snails,Copepods,Brisstle worms, feather dusters, sea urchins, Heck I even love seeing algae (as off as it sounds) it makes me feel like my tank is healthy and full of life.

At the end of the day those whole discussion is amazing. You get to see people view, ideas, and even get to argue with them in a respectful manner. The best part is even after all of this you still get to decide what you want to do. Your reef tank is your own world... RULE IT LIKE A KING and have patience with it, but most importantly you do what you like and what works for you. no one is telling you you can or can not all that is going on is sharing knowledge,

Keep on reefing ladies and gentle man and most importantly have fun doing it

[ReefkeeperZ]

Thanks for chiming in foxface Fish, thats why I created this thread, as a conversation, not a "this is right, this is wrong thread" I remember having conversations when we were doing our utmost to keep acros alive in any tank with our crappy lights and we were seeking every bit of information from each other about "what works for you" rather than "why would you ask that didn't you read the stickie" (i'd have killed for a stickie on "common" knowledge back when i started).

I still feel as much as science has advanced (a ton) and our collective knowledge grows it can actually hurt us by not having regular conversations about things that we may or may not think about. A lot of new wet wrists seek answers from long time shoulder soaked people and a lot of time the answers are from their experience only (mine are that plus whatever reading I have done) so limited at best (except in rare cases) {think about it how does you glass box compare to the ocean? it doesn't}. I remember keeping acros under t-12's ask any reefer who's been in the hobby for under 5 years if you can keep Acropora under t-12 shop lights they will swear it's impossible (or at least most will). is it recomended? no, good god no. has it been done? yes. now lets see what else we can do to make it easier for the next generation of reefkeeprz.

[Scrubber_steve]

I've been treating my 6yo tank as an experiment for most of the last two years of its life, but now we've decided to settle down.

I've pondered on the way to best utilize my sump, & with some influence from Steve Tyree, I've gone with what I would refer to as a four-zonal set-up.

I've posted a diagram below, but it's very simple.

The first zone is the exposed zone, or, the aquarium itself, i.e. - fully lit.

Over-flow water from the display enters the 2nd zone - my algae scrubber, sitting on top of my sump.

The water leaves the scrubber & passes through a very course sponge filter (this is the only mechanical filtration in the system) & then enters the semi exposed filter feeder zone. This end of the sump is dimly lit by a 450nm blue LED. This is for any photosynthesising organisms that may take up residence there. The water flows to the bottom of this zone & then both upwards, over, & through a permeable coral wall I made, where the water then enters the cryptic sponge zone. As the name suggests, this zone is completely dark, 24/7.

Because the permeable coral wall allows water to flow through it as well as over the top of it, this creates a very slow flow through the cryptic zone, as recommended by Steve.

The sponge encrusted live rock sits on top of egg crate to keep it off the shallow coral sand bed on the bottom of the cryptic sponge zone.

I've just set this sump - zonal system up a few weeks ago, so there is still much to happen within it over time.

[Subsea]

For certain, sponges are the third leg of biodiversity in our reef tanks. Anthony Calfo and Robert Fenner wrote a complete chapter on sponges in their book “Reef Invertebrates”, “There are more than 8000 species of sponges, each with its own diverse feeding requirements”. It was hit or miss 20 years ago, but today we know specifics about cryptic sponges, which consume DOC and excrete DIC & Marine Snow, both food for coral.

I modified a 25 year old EcoSystem 30G mud macro refugium by turning out the lights six months ago. One rock with cryptic sponges was introduced. They are spreading everywhere, I saw some on heater glass.

[Scrubber_steve]

Sponges also remove pelagic bacteria.

How is Chilli getting along?

[Subsea]

Chilli is alive and surviving. I looked in yesterday for the first time in a month and was excited to see his feathers flying. I should have taken picture then. I have trouble posting pictures on this site, but one picture of low quality came out. It was more to show growth of cryptic sponges and taken overhead looking down. Not too much room in refugium for that.

[Michael Hoaster]

Twinfallz, I like your interpretation of Tyree's Environmental Gradient. I think it should be a very effective filtration setup. What are you doing in your display? Do you have a thread for this tank? I'd love to follow along!

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Twinfallz, I like your interpretation of Tyree's Environmental Gradient. I think it should be a very effective filtration setup.

Thanks Michael. It provides many varying environments to enable diversity of micro & macro fauna, so should be effective.

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

What are you doing in your display? Do you have a thread for this tank? I'd love to follow along!

No tank thread, sorry. But I'm considering upgrading to a larger display & will put a thread together if I do.

My display is only a 3 foot 45g. I had many LPS with some softies untill a few months ago when an accidental overdose of potassium iodide - fluoride concentrate killed much of the coral I'd had for 18 months.

So I bought a doser, started using aquaforrest alk-cal components, upgraded lighting & internal flow, & bought a few sps. Things are going along well so far.

[ReefkeeperZ]

Thats an awesome sump design, twin. I had a sump similar a while back only it had 4 layers of crate with pipe spacers in between, it was amazing how much grew in there sponges and micro feathers dominating whole areas of the crate.

[sirreal63]

Originally Posted by ReefkeeperZ

so some pretty cool methods and thoughts so far.

I'm going to touch on ways of introducing more biodiversity to your tank. now keep in mind these are in no particular order just as they come into my head. and yes you can absolutley quarantine any one of these 5-6 would be challenging but not impossible to QT

1: sand swap with some one that has an established long time tank, obviously if there tank has been up for years the microfauna has had time to establish itself into colonies throughout the sand bed and you can introduce many forms of life that live in our sand.

2: live rock from the ocean, lots of neat things can live on that some who live near the oceans drop some rock in and go recollect it after aging it in the ocean. a lot of manufactured rock distributers do that as well. but i'm not sure how long they leave it in the ocean judging by the manufactured rock I've seen not very long becuase it's generally just spirorbid worms and micro feather dusters on it, of course the longer you leave it the more life has a chance to move into it.

3: Live rock from some one else tank, much like sand certain denizens of our micro-biome live their entire lives crawling in and around or growing on rock.

4: macro algae bought from distributor or some one else tank, great way to introduce copepods and other buggers

5: sump sludge that nasty goopy gloop that settles out in random corers of sumps is home to a whole host of bacterias and micro bugs as it's both a food source and breeding ground loaded with nutrients for new and sustaining life

6: small sample of skimmate ( just a couple ML) lots of microfauna and eggs as well as bacteria and other planktons (both zoo and phyto) get scooped up by our skimmer so that's an often unthought of source for potential new life.

7: sponge, if you throw a filter sponge in some ones sump for a couple weeks (just letting it sit there doesn't have to be run as a filter) a lot of things will move into the porous structure because its a great place to live. so its a super cheap way to snag some life from some ones tank without haveing the mess of sand or sacrificing any rock.

8: ocean sand/mud go grab a couple scoops from the ocean somewhere (as long as it's legal and you can get to it) that's a plethora of life in a couple cups.

Can anyone think of any I have missed?

Do not overlook feeding. All of that diversity needs nutrition. The norm is for people to massively underfeed their tanks for fear of nuisance algaes or lack of understanding that more than just fish need food.

[OrionN]

Feeding does help keep diversity proliferate. This certainly keep many species from dying out.

[Misled]

I feed my sump.