Mysterious euphyllia disease

[Tripod1404]

Hello Guys,

My tank is experiencing a mysterious euphyllia specific disease. About a month ago I bought a new two headed hammer coral frag. I added this to my euphyllia garden that had a large Hammer, a medium sized frogspawn and a medium sized grape coral. There was also a medium sized torch in close proximity. I also dipped the new hammer in iodine for 30mins before adding.

About 2 weeks ago one head of the new hammer died. The head started to melt lower edge of the head until it reached to the polyp and it melted as well. It took about 2-3 days for this to happen. To be honest I wasnt worried that much since the other head looked healthy and I tough "oh well, this is nature, maybe it was injured". After this everything looked okay for a week or so. Then the same thing happened to the second head of the new hammer.

It then spread to the big hammer coral, frogspawn and the grape coral. I dipped them in iodine solution and I actually went 5X the recommended amount. Frogspawn and the grape coral died anyways in about 2 days and I threw them away when they started to melt the same way. All heads of the big hammer also closed but all but one head opened afterwards. The head that remained closed started to melt so I fragged that head and threw it away.

Now the torch coral started to show the same symptoms. I think I am going to dip in iodine as well (again using 5X recommended amount). What ever this is, it only effects the euphyllia corals. There are some brains and a bubble coral nearby and acroporas just above the euphyllia garden. Non of those show any symptoms.

Do you guys have any idea what this might be. I think it is some kind of bacterial infection since it starts at the edge of the coral and works its way to the polyp. But it doesnt cause a brown jelly. The head simply starts to melt once the rotting reach to the polyp.

[outy]

stop dipping, probably the actual problem.

[Tripod1404]

Originally Posted by outy

stop dipping, probably the actual problem.

Corals that were never dipped show the same thing. I doubt it is a dipping problem.

[outy]

In 20 years of growing and selling this I have never had to dip. Poor water quality will slowly decrease head size, you are shocking these by dipping. Your making it worse.

One a head starts to decay it pollutes the water and you need to be doing some extra large water changes. Stop adding garbage, this coral grows likes weeds with good water with a hair of nitrate and phos.

[outy]

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

Corals that were never dipped show the same thing. I doubt it is a dipping problem.

Because the water quality has decreased, due to decaying LPS.

[Tripod1404]

Originally Posted by outy

Because the water quality has decreased, due to decaying LPS.

Nitrate and phospahtes are 1ppm and 0.006 ppm. Plus, I have corals that are far mor sensitive to water quality than any euphyllia. I dont think euphyllias would be the first and only coral to react if it was a water quality issue.

[outy]

2 months ago I had about 2000 heads of branching hammer and frogspawn in my 215 that were outgrowing the tank. The magnet could not keep the glass clean without breaking pieces off. Due to water quality and all the die off, I started loosing many heads.

Completely rebuilt my DSB and did 100% water change, and now everything is growing perfect again.

Problem is always water quality.

[outy]

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

Nitrate and phospahtes are 1ppm and 0.006 ppm. Plus, I have corals that are far mor sensitive to water quality than any euphyllia. I dont think euphyllias would be the first and only coral to react if it was a water quality issue.

I find its better to not shock them so much. Store to tank. I started with 7 heads of branching hammer and 3 frogspawn heads.

Many of these heads are all over northern Ca now.

[outy]

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

Nitrate and phospahtes are 1ppm and 0.006 ppm. Plus, I have corals that are far mor sensitive to water quality than any euphyllia. I dont think euphyllias would be the first and only coral to react if it was a water quality issue.

It could be a chemical from the decaying ones.

Again, fresh new water is always a good idea when faced with a problem.

You have a problem with a very hearty coral that is easy to keep, when in doubt STOP what your doing, because the coral doesn't like it.

[Tripod1404]

I had my large hammer for close to 6-7 years. I periodically frag it because it is just below some expensive acros that I dont want it to sting . I try to keep it close to the size small grape fruit. When ever I frag it I always dipped it with iodine and had no issues. That is why I am skeptical that it is reacting badly to iodine.

[ca1ore]

Had this happen a few years ago and lost all my euphillia corals. Never did identify the cause though I suspected bacterial. Dipping clearly does not help, though an antibiotic might.

[outy]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

an antibiotic might.

Probably wouldn't hurt to try a gram + and - to cover both sides of the coin so to speak. His tank is well established.

[Tripod1404]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Had this happen a few years ago and lost all my euphillia corals. Never did identify the cause though I suspected bacterial. Dipping clearly does not help, though an antibiotic might.

Yeah I suspect bacteria is the main culprit as well. Although, there is no slime growing over the decaying tissue (which almost always happen with bacteria) and the disease is extremely specific to euphillia, so I am also questioning something viral. Today I will take a small sample from the infected tissue and look it under a microscope. It is a crapshoot but maybe I can see something unusual.

For the antibiotics. Do you know anything that might be effective as a dip? Most antibiotics stop bacterial growth (bacteriostatic) rather than killing the bacteria. So they require long exposure.

[outy]

I stopped the decay without the antibiotic, but it was all new water that stopped it. My case may be different.

The water changes could be flushing out the bacteria enough so that the coral can naturally fight it off. ymmv

[Tripod1404]

Apparently penicillin, metronidazole and Nitrofuran (Api Furan2) are all bacteria killing (bactericidal ) antibiotics. I have all these. Metronidazole is only active under anaerobic conditions so I will pass on that.

Human studies indicate penicillin and nitrofuran dont have cross-reactivity. I am considering to make a mixture of these two and let the coral sit in it overnight.

[outy]

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

Human studies indicate penicillin and nitrofuran dont have cross-reactivity. I am considering to make a mixture of these two and let the coral sit in it overnight.

I know Erythromycin is gram + and - but ive never used it in the tank.

[Tripod1404]

Originally Posted by outy

I know Erythromycin is gram + and - but ive never used it in the tank.

According to Wikipedia erythromycin is also bacteriostatic. So I would not be able to use it as a dip.

Unfortunately most strong bactericidal antibiotics require a prescription .

[outy]

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

Unfortunately most strong bactericidal antibiotics require a prescription .

Not for fish.

Check ebay, many can be purchased that are human medicine labeled as fish antibiotics. They cracked down last year because it was so easy, but many can still be found legally.

[Tripod1404]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Had this happen a few years ago and lost all my euphillia corals. Never did identify the cause though I suspected bacterial. Dipping clearly does not help, though an antibiotic might.

ca1ore, were you able to keep euphillia corals after that? What I fear the most is what ever is killing these corals will remain in the tank and continue killing any euphillia I add. If my all euphillia corals die I will probably not buy new ones for couple of months to be sure, but I hope I can add them afterwards.

[WVfishguy]

I would try a UV. It could not hurt. I keep a 25 watt on my 75-gal. quarantine tank.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

ca1ore, were you able to keep euphillia corals after that? What I fear the most is what ever is killing these corals will remain in the tank and continue killing any euphillia I add. If my all euphillia corals die I will probably not buy new ones for couple of months to be sure, but I hope I can add them afterwards.

In my case ricordia were affected as well as the euphillia corals - though nothing else. Was quite odd. I went without both for a while; about a year if memory serves. I have subsequently been able to keep euphillia again, though have not tried ricordia.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by outy

Not for fish.

Check ebay, many can be purchased that are human medicine labeled as fish antibiotics. They cracked down last year because it was so easy, but many can still be found legally.

I bought fish flox, for example, without a prescription and it's Cipro (gram negative I believe). Also the fish version of septra. I use them mainly to treat anemones, but they're very effective against fin rot as well.

[outy]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

I bought fish flox, for example, without a prescription and it's Cipro (gram negative I believe). Also the fish version of septra. I use them mainly to treat anemones, but they're very effective against fin rot as well.

Last year I was getting doxycycline super cheap, and it was everywhere. This year you have to hunt harder and prices went up due to the supply being so limited now.

When in doubt search bird antibiotics