In-wall 380gal tank - cut out options - Page 8

karimwassef · 07/06/2013, 09:31 AM

And here is the actuation and the signals from the Apex. The V3 and V4 create a 2 min repeat sequence (one turns the actuator to open and the other closes again). The V1 ad V2 use a float switch to activate the other valve's sequence.

This part is still under design/test.

Here is the thread on the Neptune forum for the programming...
http://forum.neptunesystems.com/show...p-needed/page2

karimwassef · 07/06/2013, 09:33 AM

And the vids...

karimwassef · 07/06/2013, 09:57 AM

In terms of flow and leakage:

The leakage takes about 2.5 mins to fill a 5 gallon bucket = 120 gph leakage
The open flow at about 3 feet is 2.5 seconds to fill a 5 gallon bucket = 7200gph surge

Since the final assembly is about 4-5 feet up, I expect to be over 8000gph in actual operation.

You can see the leakage in the first video. It's not small, but it is manageable since the pump filling the surge will be running at 4000 gph (maybe 2000-3000 gph net since it has other flows to feed too: chiller and skimmer).

karimwassef · 07/06/2013, 11:36 AM

The circuit doesn't work with only 2 DC sources. Moving on to 4 DC sources. At $5 a piece, it's not that big of a deal given that I'm driving two actuators.

I'm sure someone will figure out a way of doing it with fewer adapters, but may have to use twice the relays...

karimwassef · 07/07/2013, 12:23 AM

Found out that the relay board needs the inputs to be pulled low (to ground) to activate the relay. The Apex generates a 0-10V signal, so it's not working. I'm considering modifying the relay board, but haven't done this before. Anyone have any experience with it?

karimwassef · 07/07/2013, 01:21 AM

going with the SSR and one supply instead.

karimwassef · 07/07/2013, 04:06 PM

Any feedback on the surge videos?

BigAl2007 · 07/08/2013, 07:27 AM

In the 2nd vid everything seems a bit more "calm". Is that just because you had some water already in the container which masked the leak amount? IT just seems like a lot of leak from the video.

anthonyvyeda · 07/08/2013, 09:44 AM

wow, nice computer graphics on the first page, looks like a nice setup

karimwassef · 07/08/2013, 04:44 PM

The lower container being full masks the leakage of about 120gph. With a replenishment of 2500gph, that's 5% which is insignificant overall.

The surge is bubble free and noise free, and very low cost - those were the original the requirement and this solution meets it at 6000gph surge (so far).

BigAl2007 · 07/09/2013, 07:55 AM

I keep forgetting the massive VOLUME we're working with. 120gph isn't much at all in comparison to your system.

That's an impressive set-up in regards to your wave/surge system. Do you have any idea of total cost of all components (not the Apex etc).

karimwassef · 07/09/2013, 09:55 AM

The plumbing is $30 per surge (the 2" unions and bulkhead were expensive). The actuator is $50 per surge. The relay board is $30 covering both. The total is likely ~$200 for both surges.

This excludes the Apex and the surge container. I used a 100gallon but it could be any size down to 30 gallons or so.

I'll post a detailed costed bill of material once it's all up.

Reefocd · 07/31/2013, 09:57 AM

Just proves how little I know about this hobby. Amazing ideas at work here. subscribed!

karimwassef · 08/06/2013, 11:03 PM

quick update - got the two surges running. The flow is making me reconsider the 2" sand on the bottom.

pics and videos coming soon.

Joel_155 · 08/26/2013, 11:42 PM

Really impressed with the detail on this build!

Joel_155 · 11/20/2013, 06:06 PM

Any update on this project?

karimwassef · 01/02/2014, 11:13 AM

hi everyone. I've been away for a few months but the project has been going well.

the surge device has been working constantly since september without interruption. I'll post the details soon.

the flow alternator/diverter is working too. More on that too.

the 10 ft dual injected protein skimmer is finally done.

the thorite concrete live rock is in progress.

Aquatron · 05/05/2014, 08:34 PM

Well done

Moving 8000gph with little sound and dry will be great to see for us that enjoy design/builds.
Video would be killer when you can!

karimwassef · 05/05/2014, 09:07 PM

ok. here's the tank front view. you can see the cyclical flow first:

karimwassef · 05/05/2014, 10:04 PM

here's one surge (left top outlet)... notice the water level in the overflow.

and two surges at once (top left and middle mid-tank outlets). Notice the DT water level rise.

another dual surge

karimwassef · 05/05/2014, 10:08 PM

here's the build from the back:

and here's a surge view from behind:

karimwassef · 05/05/2014, 10:12 PM

... some vids not loading. Trying again

karimwassef · 05/05/2014, 10:13 PM

here's the cyclical diverter

karimwassef · 05/05/2014, 11:02 PM

Dual surge - rear view

Here's the circuit working

karimwassef · 05/05/2014, 11:32 PM

The pipe from the top of the surge container to the tank is not part of the normal surge operation. It's the emergency passive overflow protection. In case the active systems fail for any reason, the surge container will never flow over. It will run to the DT through the air filled pipe causing a lot of bubbles which acts as a passive visual alarm.

I can't stress how critical this simple pipe is for safety and sanity.

05/05/2014, 08:34 PM	#193
Aquatron Refugium pat.#D414,242 Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 844	Well done Moving 8000gph with little sound and dry will be great to see for us that enjoy design/builds. Video would be killer when you can! __________________ Doctor "Aquatron" Mister "Spinner" 300 gallon TRUVU AquaSystem "Mod" w/ 150 gallon control center....... Build Thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2276765&highlight=300+dt+

05/05/2014, 10:12 PM	#197
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	... some vids not loading. Trying again Last edited by karimwassef; 05/05/2014 at 10:25 PM.

07/06/2013, 09:31 AM	#176
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	And here is the actuation and the signals from the Apex. The V3 and V4 create a 2 min repeat sequence (one turns the actuator to open and the other closes again). The V1 ad V2 use a float switch to activate the other valve's sequence. This part is still under design/test. Here is the thread on the Neptune forum for the programming... http://forum.neptunesystems.com/show...p-needed/page2

07/06/2013, 09:33 AM	#177
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	And the vids...

07/06/2013, 09:57 AM	#178
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	In terms of flow and leakage: The leakage takes about 2.5 mins to fill a 5 gallon bucket = 120 gph leakage The open flow at about 3 feet is 2.5 seconds to fill a 5 gallon bucket = 7200gph surge Since the final assembly is about 4-5 feet up, I expect to be over 8000gph in actual operation. You can see the leakage in the first video. It's not small, but it is manageable since the pump filling the surge will be running at 4000 gph (maybe 2000-3000 gph net since it has other flows to feed too: chiller and skimmer).

07/06/2013, 11:36 AM	#179
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	The circuit doesn't work with only 2 DC sources. Moving on to 4 DC sources. At $5 a piece, it's not that big of a deal given that I'm driving two actuators. I'm sure someone will figure out a way of doing it with fewer adapters, but may have to use twice the relays...

07/07/2013, 12:23 AM	#180
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Found out that the relay board needs the inputs to be pulled low (to ground) to activate the relay. The Apex generates a 0-10V signal, so it's not working. I'm considering modifying the relay board, but haven't done this before. Anyone have any experience with it?

07/07/2013, 01:21 AM	#181
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	going with the SSR and one supply instead.

07/07/2013, 04:06 PM	#182
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Any feedback on the surge videos?

07/08/2013, 07:27 AM	#183
BigAl2007 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Waynesville, NC USA Posts: 1,737	In the 2nd vid everything seems a bit more "calm". Is that just because you had some water already in the container which masked the leak amount? IT just seems like a lot of leak from the video.

07/08/2013, 09:44 AM	#184
anthonyvyeda Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 13	wow, nice computer graphics on the first page, looks like a nice setup

07/08/2013, 04:44 PM	#185
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	The lower container being full masks the leakage of about 120gph. With a replenishment of 2500gph, that's 5% which is insignificant overall. The surge is bubble free and noise free, and very low cost - those were the original the requirement and this solution meets it at 6000gph surge (so far).

07/09/2013, 07:55 AM	#186
BigAl2007 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Waynesville, NC USA Posts: 1,737	I keep forgetting the massive VOLUME we're working with. 120gph isn't much at all in comparison to your system. That's an impressive set-up in regards to your wave/surge system. Do you have any idea of total cost of all components (not the Apex etc).

07/09/2013, 09:55 AM	#187
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	The plumbing is $30 per surge (the 2" unions and bulkhead were expensive). The actuator is $50 per surge. The relay board is $30 covering both. The total is likely ~$200 for both surges. This excludes the Apex and the surge container. I used a 100gallon but it could be any size down to 30 gallons or so. I'll post a detailed costed bill of material once it's all up.

07/31/2013, 09:57 AM	#188
Reefocd Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Southern California Posts: 107	Just proves how little I know about this hobby. Amazing ideas at work here. subscribed!

08/06/2013, 11:03 PM	#189
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	quick update - got the two surges running. The flow is making me reconsider the 2" sand on the bottom. pics and videos coming soon.

08/26/2013, 11:42 PM	#190
Joel_155 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,402	Really impressed with the detail on this build!

11/20/2013, 06:06 PM	#191
Joel_155 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,402	Any update on this project?

01/02/2014, 11:13 AM	#192
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	hi everyone. I've been away for a few months but the project has been going well. the surge device has been working constantly since september without interruption. I'll post the details soon. the flow alternator/diverter is working too. More on that too. the 10 ft dual injected protein skimmer is finally done. the thorite concrete live rock is in progress.

05/05/2014, 09:07 PM	#194
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	ok. here's the tank front view. you can see the cyclical flow first:

05/05/2014, 10:04 PM	#195
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	here's one surge (left top outlet)... notice the water level in the overflow. and two surges at once (top left and middle mid-tank outlets). Notice the DT water level rise. another dual surge

05/05/2014, 10:08 PM	#196
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	here's the build from the back: and here's a surge view from behind:

05/05/2014, 10:13 PM	#198
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	here's the cyclical diverter

05/05/2014, 11:02 PM	#199
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Dual surge - rear view Here's the circuit working

05/05/2014, 11:32 PM	#200
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	The pipe from the top of the surge container to the tank is not part of the normal surge operation. It's the emergency passive overflow protection. In case the active systems fail for any reason, the surge container will never flow over. It will run to the DT through the air filled pipe causing a lot of bubbles which acts as a passive visual alarm. I can't stress how critical this simple pipe is for safety and sanity.