Neptune Apex ATK (Auto Topoff Kit) - Page 3

mike810 · 05/19/2017, 02:58 AM

Is there a release date for the ATK?

shiftline · 05/19/2017, 08:37 AM

I haven't heard of one yet. But I'll keep an eye out for it

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vhuang168 · 05/19/2017, 10:30 AM

It will be very soon. Beta testing is almost done if I'm not wrong.

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shiftline · 05/19/2017, 09:00 PM

Sounds like it

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shiftline · 05/22/2017, 12:53 AM

Looks like they will be released in about two weeks!

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mike810 · 05/22/2017, 01:08 AM

Looking forward to it. Now they need to restock the 1" flow sensors. It seems to be out of stock everywhere.

shiftline · 05/22/2017, 08:10 PM

I hear you. I was trying to find the same thing last week! (Still hunting)

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sleepydoc · 05/22/2017, 09:26 PM

So details are still sketchy since it hasn't been released, but is there any advantage of this over a Tunze osmolator?

mike810 · 05/22/2017, 10:00 PM

Probably just the integration with apex and the algorithm programmed into it. Otherwise, the tunze would be just as good. I plan to purchase the flow meters so instead of Buying the fmk, I'll wait for the atk and purchase a single 1" flow meter. I also really like the moun for the optical eyes and float valve.

Any float switches with a breakout box will do the same job.

Kyl · 05/22/2017, 11:11 PM

Apex integration and saving a power outlet if you have the EB832 are the two perks, aside from being able to run a flow meter or leak detection probe.

edolan · 05/23/2017, 10:33 PM

Curious if anyone has the dimensions on this ato? How long is it with the float valve?

ktownhero · 05/24/2017, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gus6464

First of all a pump that is inside a container that is the same height as the sump and has tubing connected horizontally from the top of the container to the sump should not siphon when turned off. A tiny sicce sincra micro does not do it yet the tunze and pmup do.

I mentioned the litermeter as that's what I have now and yes I know the difference between a peristaltic and impeller pump.

The pmup is way too expensive for what it is.

Then again you are a "beta" tester for Neptune so I don't expect you to agree.

A siphon is basic physics. There are no magic exceptions to it because of a pump. Your set up is installed incorrectly if you have siphon problems. It's that simple, there's nothing to debate .

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vhuang168 · 05/24/2017, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edolan

Curious if anyone has the dimensions on this ato? How long is it with the float valve?

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/atk-au...e-systems.html

Dimensions are listed in the description.

Looks like it's 6.5" long.

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Vinno · 05/24/2017, 09:27 AM

Are the electric neptune sensors fast like coommon electrical float white ones or is there a big delay?

Also with you guys talking about siphoning, doesnt a rodi value gig below work? http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/mur-lo...h-connect.html

vhuang168 · 05/24/2017, 10:31 AM

There is no delay in triggering states.

If I'm not wrong, the ATK will ship with an anti siphon .

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sleepydoc · 05/24/2017, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktownhero

A siphon is basic physics. There are no magic exceptions to it because of a pump. Your set up is installed incorrectly if you have siphon problems. It's that simple, there's nothing to debate .

Agree. A siphon will occur whenever you have a fluid filled tube connecting two bodies/containers of water. The water will always flow from the container with the higher water level to that with the lower water level. If the outlet of the tube is not in the water then the siphon will occur as long as the outlet of the tube is below the water level in the source container.

Peristaltic pumps prevent this because the roller pinches the tubing, blocking the flow of water, otherwise, the pump is irrelevant. The height of the tanks is irrelevant. the length of the tubing is irrelevant.

If you are siphoning water with your setup, you can either try to change physics or change your setup. The 2nd option is easier.

The Mur-lock check valve Vinno linked to won't help. Check valves keep water from flowing 'backwards,' but in this case the siphon is occurring in the 'forward' direction, so the water would just keep flowing.

ca1ore · 05/24/2017, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vhuang168

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/atk-au...e-systems.html

Dimensions are listed in the description.

Looks like it's 6.5" long.

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If BRS is correct in describing 'what's included' it's a really pretty good deal for $200. I may actually buy one for the parts

vhuang168 · 05/24/2017, 10:57 AM

The list looks correct.

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sleepydoc · 05/24/2017, 11:02 AM

Now that this system is released and there are more details, I have a few thoughts:

Price - It's on the high end for ATOs, but not unreasonable, IMO. If you price our the components separately, the optical sensors, pump and FMM alone come to $190. The Tunze osmolator, what most consider to be the 'gold standard' is $200. There are other cheaper systems, but their features and components differ.
Having the ability to add a low water sensor to the ATO reservoir and a leak detector is very nice and something not available in other systems that I'm aware of
The 'smart' timing feature that limited fill time to 2x the average fill time might be an issue. I've had plenty of occasions where I come home and realize the ATO has run dry and my sump is a half gallon low. With the Tunze I just fill up the reservoir and let the ATO run. Doesn't seem like you can do that with the Apex unless you can adjust this with fusion.
Supposedly Neptune will be selling just the optical sensors & bracket separately. Depending on the price, that would make it almost a no-brainer for anyone who already has an apex FMM.
An added bonus for those that have an Apex is it saves a switched outlet.
I'm curious as to whether you can change/customize the programming if you have an Apex or if it's simply limited to how it's set at the factory.
Since improperly programming an ATO has a huge potential for damage to the tank and floods, having it pre-programmed is a nice benefit for people new to controllers.

.

vhuang168 · 05/24/2017, 11:24 AM

If your reservoir had run dry, the ATK will probably be in error state. Refilling the reservoir and re-enabling ATK should be fine. You can also manually fill in the return chamber to the low sensor.

You can customize the programming.

Apex Fusion just got an update that introduces 'Tasks'. It will guide you through setup of various equipment like heaters, pumps and the ATK. It will then generate the code based on that.

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spifftempo · 05/24/2017, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepydoc

Agree. A siphon will occur whenever you have a fluid filled tube connecting two bodies/containers of water. The water will always flow from the container with the higher water level to that with the lower water level. If the outlet of the tube is not in the water then the siphon will occur as long as the outlet of the tube is below the water level in the source container.

Peristaltic pumps prevent this because the roller pinches the tubing, blocking the flow of water, otherwise, the pump is irrelevant. The height of the tanks is irrelevant. the length of the tubing is irrelevant.

If you are siphoning water with your setup, you can either try to change physics or change your setup. The 2nd option is easier.

The Mur-lock check valve Vinno linked to won't help. Check valves keep water from flowing 'backwards,' but in this case the siphon is occurring in the 'forward' direction, so the water would just keep flowing.

Looks like Neptune Systems will be including a siphon break as a standard with every ATK.

https://www.neptunesystems.com/wp-co...structions.png

FullBoreReefer · 05/24/2017, 01:07 PM

How many people have preordered?

wmo168 · 05/24/2017, 01:41 PM

Are they offering it without the pump? I rather use aqua filter pump...

chgoblknazn · 05/24/2017, 02:12 PM

I was really excited about the release but it doesn't really provide any advantages over my current Tunze which will likely work forever. The float switch is huge. Does it need the power supply to run or is power provided by the aquabus?

jayball · 05/24/2017, 02:13 PM

If you already have an apex I do not see how or why you would need this. I have 50 dollars in float switches, a bracket, and an aqua-lifter plugged into my breakout box. You can program your own frequency that it can run and auto shut off.

Why would I need it? Is this aimed at the segment without an apex that think the tunze ATO is not sufficient?

05/19/2017, 08:37 AM	#52
shiftline Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Canada Posts: 537	I haven't heard of one yet. But I'll keep an eye out for it Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ ReefDudes - Making Reefing Easy! Current Tank Info: Fuson 30L

05/19/2017, 10:30 AM	#53
vhuang168 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,136	It will be very soon. Beta testing is almost done if I'm not wrong. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Vincent 40g custom AIO --> DSA190Pro

05/19/2017, 09:00 PM	#54
shiftline Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Canada Posts: 537	Sounds like it Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ ReefDudes - Making Reefing Easy! Current Tank Info: Fuson 30L

05/22/2017, 12:53 AM	#55
shiftline Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Canada Posts: 537	Looks like they will be released in about two weeks! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ ReefDudes - Making Reefing Easy! Current Tank Info: Fuson 30L

05/22/2017, 08:10 PM	#57
shiftline Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Canada Posts: 537	I hear you. I was trying to find the same thing last week! (Still hunting) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ ReefDudes - Making Reefing Easy! Current Tank Info: Fuson 30L

05/19/2017, 02:58 AM	#51
mike810 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Huntington Beach Posts: 2,235	Is there a release date for the ATK?

05/22/2017, 01:08 AM	#56
mike810 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Huntington Beach Posts: 2,235	Looking forward to it. Now they need to restock the 1" flow sensors. It seems to be out of stock everywhere.

05/22/2017, 09:26 PM	#58
sleepydoc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,907	So details are still sketchy since it hasn't been released, but is there any advantage of this over a Tunze osmolator? __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 120 gallon, coast to coast overflow w/beananimal overflow. Waveline DC 10000 II return pump, 40 gal sump, Octopus XS200 skimmer, T5 lighting

05/22/2017, 10:00 PM	#59
mike810 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Huntington Beach Posts: 2,235	Probably just the integration with apex and the algorithm programmed into it. Otherwise, the tunze would be just as good. I plan to purchase the flow meters so instead of Buying the fmk, I'll wait for the atk and purchase a single 1" flow meter. I also really like the moun for the optical eyes and float valve. Any float switches with a breakout box will do the same job.

05/22/2017, 11:11 PM	#60
Kyl Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 93	Apex integration and saving a power outlet if you have the EB832 are the two perks, aside from being able to run a flow meter or leak detection probe. Last edited by Kyl; 05/22/2017 at 11:18 PM.

05/23/2017, 10:33 PM	#61
edolan Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 169	Curious if anyone has the dimensions on this ato? How long is it with the float valve?

05/24/2017, 09:27 AM	#64
Vinno Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 59	Are the electric neptune sensors fast like coommon electrical float white ones or is there a big delay? Also with you guys talking about siphoning, doesnt a rodi value gig below work? http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/mur-lo...h-connect.html

05/24/2017, 10:31 AM	#65
vhuang168 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,136	Neptune Apex ATK (Auto Topoff Kit) There is no delay in triggering states. If I'm not wrong, the ATK will ship with an anti siphon . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Vincent 40g custom AIO --> DSA190Pro

05/24/2017, 10:57 AM	#68
vhuang168 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,136	The list looks correct. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Vincent 40g custom AIO --> DSA190Pro

05/24/2017, 11:02 AM	#69
sleepydoc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,907	Now that this system is released and there are more details, I have a few thoughts: Price - It's on the high end for ATOs, but not unreasonable, IMO. If you price our the components separately, the optical sensors, pump and FMM alone come to $190. The Tunze osmolator, what most consider to be the 'gold standard' is $200. There are other cheaper systems, but their features and components differ. Having the ability to add a low water sensor to the ATO reservoir and a leak detector is very nice and something not available in other systems that I'm aware of The 'smart' timing feature that limited fill time to 2x the average fill time might be an issue. I've had plenty of occasions where I come home and realize the ATO has run dry and my sump is a half gallon low. With the Tunze I just fill up the reservoir and let the ATO run. Doesn't seem like you can do that with the Apex unless you can adjust this with fusion. Supposedly Neptune will be selling just the optical sensors & bracket separately. Depending on the price, that would make it almost a no-brainer for anyone who already has an apex FMM. An added bonus for those that have an Apex is it saves a switched outlet. I'm curious as to whether you can change/customize the programming if you have an Apex or if it's simply limited to how it's set at the factory. Since improperly programming an ATO has a huge potential for damage to the tank and floods, having it pre-programmed is a nice benefit for people new to controllers. . __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 120 gallon, coast to coast overflow w/beananimal overflow. Waveline DC 10000 II return pump, 40 gal sump, Octopus XS200 skimmer, T5 lighting

05/24/2017, 11:24 AM	#70
vhuang168 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,136	If your reservoir had run dry, the ATK will probably be in error state. Refilling the reservoir and re-enabling ATK should be fine. You can also manually fill in the return chamber to the low sensor. You can customize the programming. Apex Fusion just got an update that introduces 'Tasks'. It will guide you through setup of various equipment like heaters, pumps and the ATK. It will then generate the code based on that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Vincent 40g custom AIO --> DSA190Pro

05/24/2017, 01:07 PM	#72
FullBoreReefer Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Wooster, OH Posts: 1,862	How many people have preordered? __________________ 60x36x24 mixed reef. 40b sump. Regal 250int Varios. 4xHydra26HDs+t5s. 4xMp40wes. Apex2016.

05/24/2017, 01:41 PM	#73
wmo168 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 262	Are they offering it without the pump? I rather use aqua filter pump...

05/24/2017, 02:12 PM	#74
chgoblknazn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Chicago - East Pilsen/UIC Area Posts: 642	I was really excited about the release but it doesn't really provide any advantages over my current Tunze which will likely work forever. The float switch is huge. Does it need the power supply to run or is power provided by the aquabus? __________________ ...................................................... 45g Custom w/Starfire front & sides, Ecotech Radion Pro G3, MP40QD, Tunze ATO, Nyos Quantum 120 Skimmer, Ecotech Vectra M1 Return Pump Last edited by chgoblknazn; 05/24/2017 at 02:17 PM.

05/24/2017, 02:13 PM	#75
jayball Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,671	If you already have an apex I do not see how or why you would need this. I have 50 dollars in float switches, a bracket, and an aqua-lifter plugged into my breakout box. You can program your own frequency that it can run and auto shut off. Why would I need it? Is this aimed at the segment without an apex that think the tunze ATO is not sufficient?