tank set up with Cupramine

dirk_brijs · 07/07/2018, 02:55 AM

Have a fish only tank set up with cupramine added to it previous at the suggested 0.5 levels for about 2-3 weeks now.
Still I see fish in there with clear ICH signs and die...
all other levels are good in the tank nother issues...
would ICH be able to survive a 0.5 level of cupramine????

zachfishman · 07/07/2018, 01:25 PM

Ich should not persist in 0.5ppm Cupramine very long. Are you routinely testing your copper? Copper is adsorbed readily in aquaria by rocks and sand. If you only dosed once according to directions, you'll be surprised at how low your copper is now. I suggest picking up the Hanna HI702 checker to verify your copper levels and use it to maintain a treatment concentration.

Alternatively, in a FO system I prefer to use hyposalinity to treat ich, that way I'm not fighting constantly dropping copper levels. Drop your salinity to 14ppt (that's parts per thousand, convert for specific gravity) and leave it that way for 60 days. Supplement alkalinity to normal levels to buffer pH. Easy on the fish and wallet. When you're done with hypo, raise salinity very slowly (~1ppt every 24hrs max).

zachfishman · 07/07/2018, 01:28 PM

On a related note, if you don't have any inverts you can run your FO tank at ~20ppt long term with no issues. I maintain thousands of gallons of saltwater fish at this salinity and they are quite happy and healthy.

dirk_brijs · 07/08/2018, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachfishman

Ich should not persist in 0.5ppm Cupramine very long. Are you routinely testing your copper? Copper is adsorbed readily in aquaria by rocks and sand. If you only dosed once according to directions, you'll be surprised at how low your copper is now. I suggest picking up the Hanna HI702 checker to verify your copper levels and use it to maintain a treatment concentration.

Alternatively, in a FO system I prefer to use hyposalinity to treat ich, that way I'm not fighting constantly dropping copper levels. Drop your salinity to 14ppt (that's parts per thousand, convert for specific gravity) and leave it that way for 60 days. Supplement alkalinity to normal levels to buffer pH. Easy on the fish and wallet. When you're done with hypo, raise salinity very slowly (~1ppt every 24hrs max).

how effective is hyposalinity against ICH?

zachfishman · 07/08/2018, 08:38 AM

Just as effective as medication IME, and unlike most medications you can continue using UV. There are rare occurrences of ich that can persist in salinity that low, but if it does it is struggling to hang on and can’t reproduce enough to kill fish.

lagatbezan · 07/08/2018, 10:05 AM

how are you testing the copper levels?

dirk_brijs · 07/09/2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagatbezan

how are you testing the copper levels?

seachem test kits

scooter31707 · 07/10/2018, 10:07 AM

Sure it's ich, not velvet?

lagatbezan · 07/10/2018, 05:06 PM

can you post some pics or maybe a video on youtube?
copper at the therapeutic level should treat both velvet and ich. usually there should be no visible symptoms seem after about 7-10 days into the treatment.
you need to make sure that the levels are constant throughout the whole treatment which could get challenging when treating in a tank that has rock and sand that can absorb it.
I would get a Hanna high range copper tester and test it daily. The kit is digital and makes reading it much easier then the color chart test kits.

dirk_brijs · 07/11/2018, 11:08 AM

lagatbezan · 07/11/2018, 12:30 PM

how long has the puffer been like this? my guess would be velvet but the copper should have treated it! any other fish showing symptoms?

07/07/2018, 02:55 AM	#1
dirk_brijs Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pattaya Thailand Posts: 1,457	tank set up with Cupramine Have a fish only tank set up with cupramine added to it previous at the suggested 0.5 levels for about 2-3 weeks now. Still I see fish in there with clear ICH signs and die... all other levels are good in the tank nother issues... would ICH be able to survive a 0.5 level of cupramine????

07/07/2018, 01:25 PM	#2
zachfishman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St Petersburg, FL Posts: 3,577	Ich should not persist in 0.5ppm Cupramine very long. Are you routinely testing your copper? Copper is adsorbed readily in aquaria by rocks and sand. If you only dosed once according to directions, you'll be surprised at how low your copper is now. I suggest picking up the Hanna HI702 checker to verify your copper levels and use it to maintain a treatment concentration. Alternatively, in a FO system I prefer to use hyposalinity to treat ich, that way I'm not fighting constantly dropping copper levels. Drop your salinity to 14ppt (that's parts per thousand, convert for specific gravity) and leave it that way for 60 days. Supplement alkalinity to normal levels to buffer pH. Easy on the fish and wallet. When you're done with hypo, raise salinity very slowly (~1ppt every 24hrs max). __________________ Patience is a reefer's best tool. Secret Xenia lover. M.S. Marine Biology Staff - Marine Discovery Center, St. Petersburg FL Tampa Bay Reef Club BOD 2018 Current Tank Info: 34g modded Solana

07/07/2018, 01:28 PM	#3
zachfishman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St Petersburg, FL Posts: 3,577	On a related note, if you don't have any inverts you can run your FO tank at ~20ppt long term with no issues. I maintain thousands of gallons of saltwater fish at this salinity and they are quite happy and healthy. __________________ Patience is a reefer's best tool. Secret Xenia lover. M.S. Marine Biology Staff - Marine Discovery Center, St. Petersburg FL Tampa Bay Reef Club BOD 2018 Current Tank Info: 34g modded Solana

07/08/2018, 08:38 AM	#5
zachfishman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St Petersburg, FL Posts: 3,577	Just as effective as medication IME, and unlike most medications you can continue using UV. There are rare occurrences of ich that can persist in salinity that low, but if it does it is struggling to hang on and can’t reproduce enough to kill fish. __________________ Patience is a reefer's best tool. Secret Xenia lover. M.S. Marine Biology Staff - Marine Discovery Center, St. Petersburg FL Tampa Bay Reef Club BOD 2018 Current Tank Info: 34g modded Solana

07/08/2018, 10:05 AM	#6
lagatbezan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,109	how are you testing the copper levels? __________________ Ryan. 300g with velocity t4 for return and a Reflo dart on a closed loop, T5 lights & SRO3000 skimmer. Current Tank Info: 300g

07/10/2018, 10:07 AM	#8
scooter31707 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,971	Sure it's ich, not velvet?

07/10/2018, 05:06 PM	#9
lagatbezan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,109	can you post some pics or maybe a video on youtube? copper at the therapeutic level should treat both velvet and ich. usually there should be no visible symptoms seem after about 7-10 days into the treatment. you need to make sure that the levels are constant throughout the whole treatment which could get challenging when treating in a tank that has rock and sand that can absorb it. I would get a Hanna high range copper tester and test it daily. The kit is digital and makes reading it much easier then the color chart test kits. __________________ Ryan. 300g with velocity t4 for return and a Reflo dart on a closed loop, T5 lights & SRO3000 skimmer. Current Tank Info: 300g

07/11/2018, 11:08 AM	#10
dirk_brijs Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pattaya Thailand Posts: 1,457

07/11/2018, 12:30 PM	#11
lagatbezan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,109	how long has the puffer been like this? my guess would be velvet but the copper should have treated it! any other fish showing symptoms? __________________ Ryan. 300g with velocity t4 for return and a Reflo dart on a closed loop, T5 lights & SRO3000 skimmer. Current Tank Info: 300g