|
07/23/2017, 07:32 AM | #1 |
Premium Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 81
|
Are closed loop systems still used?
I recently acquired a 180 gallon glass tank. 48W, 36D, 24T, and it has been drilled for an open loop system, and a closed loop system. My searches don't bring up very much current setups using the closed loop systems, so I am wondering if they are still used. I bought this tank not knowing how it was drilled, I had planned on using the Bean animal overflow system, and I think i still can, getting creative with using the existing holes. This would still leave me part of the closed loop system to either use in some manner, or block it off some way.
On another note, if I can use the CL sytem, how do you keep the intake to it clean? Do you regularly have to take it apart and clean it? Ill attach some pics on the top and bottom of the tank. Any help would be appreciated, up till now my experiance in saltwater tanks has been my current 28G JBJ, my prevouis 24 gallon Cube, and a 3 gallon pico sea horse tank. Before saltwater, I had a 125 gallon freshwater cichlid tank, but that tank used canister filters. Thanks in advance!! Doug
__________________
Bueller. Bueller. Bueller......... Current Tank Info: 28 gallon JBJ, new 160.... |
07/23/2017, 07:35 AM | #2 |
Premium Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 81
|
__________________
Bueller. Bueller. Bueller......... Current Tank Info: 28 gallon JBJ, new 160.... |
07/23/2017, 07:46 AM | #3 |
Premium Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 81
|
This is what I was thinking. I am going to have to plumb the extra pipe needed for the Bean Animal Overflow into the overflow box, an then tank the two returns, and plump them over to the back of the tank and up to provide the return, and get them up high enough, to limit the amount of water that will flow back into my sump if I have loose my return pump. I would like to avoid using a back-flow device, as I am concerned they may fail, hence the reason I am doing the Bean animal overflow, as it provides the most amount contingencies. Again, this all seems clear to me, but if you need more information, please let me know.
__________________
Bueller. Bueller. Bueller......... Current Tank Info: 28 gallon JBJ, new 160.... |
07/23/2017, 08:05 AM | #4 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 9,103
|
How are you planning on pulling using that 3rd pipe for the Bean Animal since only 2 of the bulkheads are in the overflow?
That said I would not use any of those as a "return" you are asking for problems unless you bring your return pipe all the way to the top of the tank. Just use them all for a closed loop, then bring your return over the top of the tank from the outside.
__________________
Mike |
07/23/2017, 08:23 AM | #5 |
Premium Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 81
|
I planned on pipping the the third pipe into the overflow, through the acrylic, at the base of the overflow. I also planned on piping the two return lines over to back of the tank, where the overflow is, and straight up, to have the returns at the top of the tank.
__________________
Bueller. Bueller. Bueller......... Current Tank Info: 28 gallon JBJ, new 160.... |
07/23/2017, 08:24 AM | #6 |
Premium Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 81
|
This is the diameters of the holes cut in the glass.
__________________
Bueller. Bueller. Bueller......... Current Tank Info: 28 gallon JBJ, new 160.... |
07/23/2017, 10:31 AM | #7 |
Grizzled & Cynical
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 17,319
|
Any holes/bulkheads 'open' to the full volume of the tank must be used as a closed loop. Hard to see much rhyme or reason to all those holes. Also, keep in mind that if any of those bulkheads start to leak there's no way to fix them short of draining the tank (which is why I don't do bottom holes anymore). And, yes, any suction screens will need periodic maintenance so make them easily accessible.
__________________
Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs |
07/23/2017, 03:00 PM | #8 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Union, Ohio, USA
Posts: 6,590
|
I love my closed loop but would never have them on the bottom. My intakes are halfway up the one end of the tank. Only down side for me was my outputs come in from the top because I added the closed loop after the tank had been up and running for several years.
My buddy had a tank with bulkheads in the bottom for a closed loop and never had an issue. The tank ran for years but you just have to keep in mind you may have to drain the tank if an issue would arise.
__________________
I'm a SaltGeek are You? All LED since 2010. Current Tank Info: 375 Gallon Reef with siporax, all LED lighting, and Red Dragon 3 and Abyzz A200 on 2 closed loops. |
07/23/2017, 08:57 PM | #9 |
Premium Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 81
|
So let's say I want to eliminate the three holes on the left side, what would be the best method of doing this??
__________________
Bueller. Bueller. Bueller......... Current Tank Info: 28 gallon JBJ, new 160.... |
07/24/2017, 07:28 AM | #10 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canadia
Posts: 4,276
|
Best bet is to remove the plumbing and get small scraps of glass the same thickness as the panes and silicone these over the holes on the inside. A minimum overlap of two inches would be safest. If you can, get glass plugs to fill the holes and silicone these in, as well.
Dave.M
__________________
My Gawd! It's full of corals! Current Tank Info: None. Nil. Zip. Nada. |
07/24/2017, 09:52 AM | #11 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Union, Ohio, USA
Posts: 6,590
|
Quote:
__________________
I'm a SaltGeek are You? All LED since 2010. Current Tank Info: 375 Gallon Reef with siporax, all LED lighting, and Red Dragon 3 and Abyzz A200 on 2 closed loops. |
|
07/24/2017, 01:43 PM | #12 |
Grizzled & Cynical
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 17,319
|
I've patched over holes in a glass tank. It's an almost permanent fix - patches are very difficult to remove should you wish to.
__________________
Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs |
07/24/2017, 01:44 PM | #13 | |
Premium Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 81
|
Quote:
What are the risks when using a closed loop?? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
Bueller. Bueller. Bueller......... Current Tank Info: 28 gallon JBJ, new 160.... |
|
07/24/2017, 01:58 PM | #14 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canadia
Posts: 4,276
|
The risks are that the bulkheads through the pane may leak if they're not fastened securely enough. Then again, if you over-tighten them they may crack, and then you've got a leak, again. Or your pipes that connect to the bulkheads may not be tight enough, and then they may leak. Or the pipes that connect to the bulkheads might get knocked hard, loosening the bulkheads, and then you've got a leak... again. I think you get the picture.
When set up well and carefully closed loops can last a long time. People don't use them as often out of worry but that doesn't necessarily mean any of those things will ever happen. Remember, many tanks have an inside overflow with bulkheads through the tank bottom that all pose the same risks and those seldom have problems, so I wouldn't especially worry about through the back connections if you have a safe and stable set-up for your tank. Dave.M
__________________
My Gawd! It's full of corals! Current Tank Info: None. Nil. Zip. Nada. |
07/24/2017, 09:46 PM | #15 |
Grizzled & Cynical
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 17,319
|
Bulkheads at the bottom of the overflow aren't 'open' to the full volume of the tank though and reseating one does not necessitate fully draining the tank (just draining the overflow). My current closed loop has suction and returns along the top if the back panel.
__________________
Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs |
07/25/2017, 11:58 AM | #16 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Great Falls, MT
Posts: 1,404
|
Yeah.. you can still use closed loops.. modern pumps are powerful enough and move enough water many people stopped using them. as proper pump placement and rock work wont leave you with too many dead spots. Since it's already there i'd probably use it.
Flagstaff, AZ is where I was living when I signed up to this site back in 2004. I used to go to the aquarium center on central all the time, one of the guys on staff pointed me to this site back then. I guess they closed down awhile ago.. I hope they still have a good place for fish, that one was pretty nice. They had one guy that really knew his stuff, he had an sps tank.
__________________
300 gallon 8ft long, 2x xf250 gyre, reef octopus 250-int - work in progress Aquarist since 1986 |
07/25/2017, 02:55 PM | #17 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canadia
Posts: 4,276
|
Quote:
Dave.M
__________________
My Gawd! It's full of corals! Current Tank Info: None. Nil. Zip. Nada. |
|
07/25/2017, 10:46 PM | #18 | |
Premium Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 81
|
Quote:
The only place left locally is Petco. I've been heading to phx for my corals and fish. Not ideal. The last local fish store closed about a year ago.
__________________
Bueller. Bueller. Bueller......... Current Tank Info: 28 gallon JBJ, new 160.... |
|
07/26/2017, 08:27 AM | #19 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Diego, ca
Posts: 2,732
|
The two 2.5" holes are for the drains to the closed loop and the smaller 1.75" are the returns from the CL I would use it as set up. Regardless if they are capped or not they are at risk of a gasket leak, so why not just use it. It will eliminate power heads and you could use 2 low energy pumps to still get random currents.
Yes, you need to clean the intake pipes sporadically to keep flow well, but it also depends on how you make the intake pipe. A simple pvc pipe with top strainer will require more frequent cleanings than a whole pipe with slits or holes drilled in it sucking in way more and less likely to clog |
08/13/2017, 10:11 AM | #20 |
Refugium pat.#D414,242
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 844
|
I have only used closed loops since the 80's on my builds. Never had a leak knock on wood I enjoy setting up custom flow areas. Many different ways to create flow now days so research and seeing set ups really helps. Good Luck!
__________________
Doctor "Aquatron" Mister "Spinner" 300 gallon TRUVU AquaSystem "Mod" w/ 150 gallon control center....... Build Thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2276765&highlight=300+dt+ |
|
|