Saltwater Mixing Problems

patrickpernell · 05/26/2018, 10:04 AM

I have been mixing my own saltwater for quite some time now. I have my own RO/DI system and make my own water. I have one built in TDS meter and two hand held ones that are both calibrated correctly. All three indicate 0 TDS.

The salt I have began using (I switched from a different Red Sea Salt as recommended by LFS) is a Red Sea Salt, I attached a picture of the bucket for identification purposes.

My problem is when I make the water mix, I always get this brownish film that forms on the surface of the trash can (brand new can, only used for making water) and on the power heads that I use to stir the water. I use three power heads and the trash can is kept inside an air conditioned building normally in the 70s.

I always mix the water to 1.026, so I know I am not using too much or too little salt mix.

What can be causing this? Any recommendations on a different (better) salt mix?

AlSimmons · 05/26/2018, 10:32 AM

What your seeing might just be Calcium precipitate. It's kind of unsightly, but it's really nothing to worry about.

homer1475 · 05/26/2018, 01:27 PM

I wonder if it's the same brown crud that you see when mixing RC? I've read it's an anticaking agent, and is totally fine.

Uncle99 · 05/27/2018, 03:42 PM

I use RED SEA PRO, same as yours but the mixed reef formula, never seen this before in the years I have used it.

Are you sure that your trash can is clean. I clean mine every week, mix only what I need for the weekly change and top off, then rinse and dry the trash can. I found if I don't do this after a month or so, I get a light brownish build up on the trash can and TDS goes to 7-9.

Just a thought, a good salt should mix clean.

ajoe · 05/27/2018, 04:12 PM

When you say "can" exactly what type of "can" are you using to mix with?

patrickpernell · 05/27/2018, 04:17 PM

I bought a brand new 20 gallon brute trash can used only for the purpose of making salt water. I only make 10 gallons at a time.

Uncle99 · 05/27/2018, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajoe

When you say "can" exactly what type of "can" are you using to mix with?

v

Got ya, bad choice of words, brute plastic container.....sorry

patrickpernell · 05/27/2018, 04:18 PM

I clean it after each use. Is there anything I should be doing special to clean?

ajoe · 05/27/2018, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickpernell

I bought a brand new 20 gallon brute trash can used only for the purpose of making salt water. I only make 10 gallons at a time.

Great. Just wanted to be sure. Trying to help.

homer1475 · 05/27/2018, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Are you sure that your trash can is clean. I clean mine every week, mix only what I need for the weekly change and top off, then rinse and dry the trash can. I found if I don't do this after a month or so, I get a light brownish build up on the trash can and TDS goes to 7-9.

This kind of defeats the purpose of having a mixing station. I mix up 50G at a time, and only use 10G a week. 50G is one bag in a 200G box of IO. I haven't cleaned my barrel in over a year. Do a google search on "RC brown crud", you'll find many threads about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Just a thought, a good salt should mix clean.

By your own words, you do not have a "clean" salt then if your cleaning your mixing barrel every time you use it(see above quote about cleaning the barrel after every mix)..

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajoe

When you say "can" exactly what type of "can" are you using to mix with?

You can clearly see in his picture they are grey brute cans.

Again do a google search, it's an anti caking agent added to the salt and is completely harmless. I hated cleaning my mixing barrel because of it, so I switched to a salt that doesn't have it.

ajoe · 05/27/2018, 04:22 PM

I never clean my mixing station. I don't think too many people actually do. Not necessary.

homer1475 · 05/27/2018, 04:24 PM

Sorry, everyone else posted as I was typing my post out......

AlSimmons · 05/27/2018, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homer1475

Again do a google search, it's an anti caking agent added to the salt and is completely harmless. I hated cleaning my mixing barrel because of it, so I switched to a salt that doesn't have it.

Just out of curiosity is that anti caking agent known to stick to powerheads, much like precipitate does? I'm assuming this is due to the heat they put off.

homer1475 · 05/27/2018, 04:34 PM

Not sure to be honest. Never read too much into it.

I didn't stop using RC because of it, but rather for how it never mixes up with consistent parameters.

Uncle99 · 05/28/2018, 08:03 AM

Like I said, if you don't rinse out your mixing station over time your TDS will increase and that is counter productive. Mixing only what I need means the mix is clean, over time, precipitation will occur, and your numbers will drop as the elements precipitate out.

I am not a scientist but I can measure TDS and see over time, the scum film on the inside of the bucket......why would I want this in my DT.....brown stuff.....not in my DT....

I can't speak for other salts but mine will mix up clean and clear in about 2 hours.

I used to mix up 50g before I found out that TDS was increasing every week.

TDS numbers were as follows and before mix:
Day 1-7......0
Day 8-14......6
Day 15-21......9
Day 30......14

This is why I changed to only mixing up the amount required before changes.
It is virtually no more work, than mixing up a months worth, but the RESULT, deifinately sold me......ZERO algae.....ZERO cyno.....and no CUC....and the ranges go in on PAR....

homer1475 · 05/28/2018, 10:50 AM

You do realize that dust particles will be attracted to RO/DI? The rise in TDS is completely normal for RO/DI that is not kept air tight.

I store my RO/DI in another brute, and over the course of a few weeks it will rise, but has not had any effect on my tank.

They all mix up clean and clear. Store your NSW a few days and it will develop that brown residue. While I'm not positive, I do believe they all have that scum to some degree when the water is stored, it's just that IORC has more then others and is quite noticeable.

Uncle99 · 05/28/2018, 11:31 AM

Agreed.
I am not suggesting anyone should follow this regime, it's just for me as once TDS starts to go above 5, over 4 weekly changes, I start to notice a bit of algae and some brown dust on my sand.

I am trying to reduce everywhere I can so that the mix going in is a pure as reasonably possible and that precipitation is kept to the bare minimum.

Since mixing weekly, and rinsing bucket, using in 24 hours, I have no scum at all on the sides. Maybe not important to some, but to me, some of that must end up in the DT.

Now, each and every time I go to mix I start with 0 TDS. This is important to me.

Everyone has a different technique, they all work.

Rover88 · 05/28/2018, 11:34 AM

I mix and store my saltwater in a ten gallon aquarium with no lights, it was just easier.

After 3-4 days of sitting, it'll develop a brown coat on the glass. Looks kinda like diatoms, but its not.

Doesn't seem to hurt anything. I wipe it down once I've used the saltwater for a WC.

Instant ocean reef crystals.

homer1475 · 05/28/2018, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Everyone has a different technique, they all work.

Agreed.

tazzy695 · 05/28/2018, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Like I said, if you don't rinse out your mixing station over time your TDS will increase and that is counter productive. Mixing only what I need means the mix is clean, over time, precipitation will occur, and your numbers will drop as the elements precipitate out.

I am not a scientist but I can measure TDS and see over time, the scum film on the inside of the bucket......why would I want this in my DT.....brown stuff.....not in my DT....

I can't speak for other salts but mine will mix up clean and clear in about 2 hours.

I used to mix up 50g before I found out that TDS was increasing every week.

TDS numbers were as follows and before mix:
Day 1-7......0
Day 8-14......6
Day 15-21......9
Day 30......14

This is why I changed to only mixing up the amount required before changes.
It is virtually no more work, than mixing up a months worth, but the RESULT, deifinately sold me......ZERO algae.....ZERO cyno.....and no CUC....and the ranges go in on PAR....

How are u measuring tds in mixed saltwater as the tds read should be off the chart

If u are measuring this on stored rodi then only way to keep the tds from rising would be to keep it in air tight container and also be sure u have 0 tds in the ro water going in

Most of us will have up to 50 tds the first gallon or two out of the ro system

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Uncle99 · 05/28/2018, 04:03 PM

On Thursday, I make 35 litres of RODI. (25L I need to make SW and 10 I need for ATO bucket) At this point I measure TDS of the RODI and it will be 0.
On Friday, I move 25 litres to my mixing bucket, put in my salt, and mix with powerhead for 24 hours.
On Saturday, I use all 25L for my 10% weekly water change, the other 10L goes to ATO bucket.
After use, both buckets are rinsed and towel dried.

I follow this process, week after week, for 2 years now and I am seeing the benefits. Zero algae, stunning corals both in colour and growth, more than ever before in my 25 years as a reef keeper.
We have a moderate mixed reef with about 60 corals in a 70g. Each and every one extends and looks very healthy, have not lost anything in 2 years so far.

Personally, I would toss RODI water that is not 0 TDS, but that's just my way. I have found even the slightest TDS reading over time builds in my system and assists algae growth.

For me, it was the only way I could keep algae from growing, as I really have little use for CUC.
Gone is the GHA and slime removers, gone is the scrubbing, just clean the glass, the filters, the skim container, and the water change. It takes about an hour, once a week, then I do not touch it until the following week.

I know many think this is a waste of time, but I am convinced the process works for me, simply just the opinion of one reefer.

ajoe · 05/29/2018, 03:00 AM

"it's an anti caking agent added to the salt and is completely harmless"

Uncle99 · 05/29/2018, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajoe

"it's an anti caking agent added to the salt and is completely harmless"

Anything registering TDS is not going in my DT.
Feel free to put it in yours.

daninflipflops · 05/29/2018, 02:31 PM

i think people in this thread are a bit confused. TDS is just total dissolved solids...as long as you RO/DI water coming out of your unit is around 0 you are fine. dont measure it once its in your brute can. yeah, your TDS are going to increase since its dissolving any remaining dried up salt from your last mixing. zero problems guys.

daninflipflops · 05/29/2018, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Like I said, if you don't rinse out your mixing station over time your TDS will increase and that is counter productive. Mixing only what I need means the mix is clean, over time, precipitation will occur, and your numbers will drop as the elements precipitate out.

I am not a scientist but I can measure TDS and see over time, the scum film on the inside of the bucket......why would I want this in my DT.....brown stuff.....not in my DT....

I can't speak for other salts but mine will mix up clean and clear in about 2 hours.

I used to mix up 50g before I found out that TDS was increasing every week.

TDS numbers were as follows and before mix:
Day 1-7......0
Day 8-14......6
Day 15-21......9
Day 30......14

This is why I changed to only mixing up the amount required before changes.
It is virtually no more work, than mixing up a months worth, but the RESULT, deifinately sold me......ZERO algae.....ZERO cyno.....and no CUC....and the ranges go in on PAR....

seems like a lot of unnecessary work. you are basically cleaning your container of left over salt mix...to then...add more salt mix. thats all the TDS results are showing, you have a teeny tiny amount of salt residue in the container...why is that a bad thing. you tested you water before it went in and its zero.

05/26/2018, 01:27 PM	#3
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	I wonder if it's the same brown crud that you see when mixing RC? I've read it's an anticaking agent, and is totally fine. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

05/27/2018, 04:24 PM	#12
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	Sorry, everyone else posted as I was typing my post out...... __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

05/27/2018, 04:34 PM	#14
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	Not sure to be honest. Never read too much into it. I didn't stop using RC because of it, but rather for how it never mixes up with consistent parameters. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

05/28/2018, 10:50 AM	#16
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	You do realize that dust particles will be attracted to RO/DI? The rise in TDS is completely normal for RO/DI that is not kept air tight. I store my RO/DI in another brute, and over the course of a few weeks it will rise, but has not had any effect on my tank. They all mix up clean and clear. Store your NSW a few days and it will develop that brown residue. While I'm not positive, I do believe they all have that scum to some degree when the water is stored, it's just that IORC has more then others and is quite noticeable. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

05/28/2018, 04:03 PM	#21
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	On Thursday, I make 35 litres of RODI. (25L I need to make SW and 10 I need for ATO bucket) At this point I measure TDS of the RODI and it will be 0. On Friday, I move 25 litres to my mixing bucket, put in my salt, and mix with powerhead for 24 hours. On Saturday, I use all 25L for my 10% weekly water change, the other 10L goes to ATO bucket. After use, both buckets are rinsed and towel dried. I follow this process, week after week, for 2 years now and I am seeing the benefits. Zero algae, stunning corals both in colour and growth, more than ever before in my 25 years as a reef keeper. We have a moderate mixed reef with about 60 corals in a 70g. Each and every one extends and looks very healthy, have not lost anything in 2 years so far. Personally, I would toss RODI water that is not 0 TDS, but that's just my way. I have found even the slightest TDS reading over time builds in my system and assists algae growth. For me, it was the only way I could keep algae from growing, as I really have little use for CUC. Gone is the GHA and slime removers, gone is the scrubbing, just clean the glass, the filters, the skim container, and the water change. It takes about an hour, once a week, then I do not touch it until the following week. I know many think this is a waste of time, but I am convinced the process works for me, simply just the opinion of one reefer. Last edited by Uncle99; 05/28/2018 at 04:16 PM.

05/26/2018, 10:32 AM	#2
AlSimmons Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: California Posts: 2,482	What your seeing might just be Calcium precipitate. It's kind of unsightly, but it's really nothing to worry about.

05/27/2018, 03:42 PM	#4
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	I use RED SEA PRO, same as yours but the mixed reef formula, never seen this before in the years I have used it. Are you sure that your trash can is clean. I clean mine every week, mix only what I need for the weekly change and top off, then rinse and dry the trash can. I found if I don't do this after a month or so, I get a light brownish build up on the trash can and TDS goes to 7-9. Just a thought, a good salt should mix clean.

05/27/2018, 04:12 PM	#5
ajoe Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 297	When you say "can" exactly what type of "can" are you using to mix with?

05/27/2018, 04:17 PM	#6
patrickpernell Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 40	I bought a brand new 20 gallon brute trash can used only for the purpose of making salt water. I only make 10 gallons at a time.

05/27/2018, 04:18 PM	#8
patrickpernell Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 40	I clean it after each use. Is there anything I should be doing special to clean?

05/27/2018, 04:22 PM	#11
ajoe Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 297	I never clean my mixing station. I don't think too many people actually do. Not necessary.

05/28/2018, 08:03 AM	#15
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	Like I said, if you don't rinse out your mixing station over time your TDS will increase and that is counter productive. Mixing only what I need means the mix is clean, over time, precipitation will occur, and your numbers will drop as the elements precipitate out. I am not a scientist but I can measure TDS and see over time, the scum film on the inside of the bucket......why would I want this in my DT.....brown stuff.....not in my DT.... I can't speak for other salts but mine will mix up clean and clear in about 2 hours. I used to mix up 50g before I found out that TDS was increasing every week. TDS numbers were as follows and before mix: Day 1-7......0 Day 8-14......6 Day 15-21......9 Day 30......14 This is why I changed to only mixing up the amount required before changes. It is virtually no more work, than mixing up a months worth, but the RESULT, deifinately sold me......ZERO algae.....ZERO cyno.....and no CUC....and the ranges go in on PAR....

05/28/2018, 11:31 AM	#17
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	Agreed. I am not suggesting anyone should follow this regime, it's just for me as once TDS starts to go above 5, over 4 weekly changes, I start to notice a bit of algae and some brown dust on my sand. I am trying to reduce everywhere I can so that the mix going in is a pure as reasonably possible and that precipitation is kept to the bare minimum. Since mixing weekly, and rinsing bucket, using in 24 hours, I have no scum at all on the sides. Maybe not important to some, but to me, some of that must end up in the DT. Now, each and every time I go to mix I start with 0 TDS. This is important to me. Everyone has a different technique, they all work.

05/28/2018, 11:34 AM	#18
Rover88 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 590	I mix and store my saltwater in a ten gallon aquarium with no lights, it was just easier. After 3-4 days of sitting, it'll develop a brown coat on the glass. Looks kinda like diatoms, but its not. Doesn't seem to hurt anything. I wipe it down once I've used the saltwater for a WC. Instant ocean reef crystals.

05/29/2018, 03:00 AM	#22
ajoe Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 297	"it's an anti caking agent added to the salt and is completely harmless"

05/29/2018, 02:31 PM	#24
daninflipflops In Memoriam Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 208	i think people in this thread are a bit confused. TDS is just total dissolved solids...as long as you RO/DI water coming out of your unit is around 0 you are fine. dont measure it once its in your brute can. yeah, your TDS are going to increase since its dissolving any remaining dried up salt from your last mixing. zero problems guys.