Removing most live rock and keeping sand?

dmsprague · 01/11/2019, 04:15 PM

Hello All,
I have googled this and have not found the answer as most info is on new tanks. I have a JBJ 28 gallon that has been up and running for over a year. I have a 2-3" sand bed that is full of critters. I see the worms sending out tendrils and eating and pods crawling around. My question is can I remove most of my live rock and depend on the sand bed for biological filtration. Live stock is a small pair of gold nugget maroon clowns with a bubble tip nem, one small chromis, one small yellow watchman goby, a coral banded shrimp, one small emerald crab and two maxima clams 1 about 2.5" and 1 about 3.5". I have live rock availabe that has been in my sump and other tanks for 2-3 years plus the rock that is currently in the tank. I can not get the aquascape to look the way i want it. I want to have just a piece or two (probably keep the one the nem is on) and leave more room on the sand bed for corals and the future growth of the clams. I guess after rambling I am curious just how much live rock I would really "have to have" with a mature sand bed and the current bio load? I do not have a sump and use the 2 return pumps and an MP10 for circulation. TIA

mcgyvr · 01/11/2019, 06:45 PM

No one can answer that question...way too many variables...
Its entirely possible that some can be removed...trial and error is in your future..

Remove some and see how it goes...
There can be a heck of a lot of bacteria on/in good porous rock..

dmsprague · 01/14/2019, 01:22 PM

Thanks mcgyvr. I ended up just moving some rock around from the other tanks and sump to get the 28 looking more the way I wanted it. Clams are doing to good to risk a possible ammonia spike.

Kevin Guthrie · 01/15/2019, 12:00 PM

If your tanks share a sump then the potential for trouble goes way down.

dmsprague · 01/15/2019, 06:45 PM

This tank is all alone. Its a jbj 28 gallon AIO in the bedroom. My 180 and 150 share a 125 gallon sump.

mickey204 · 01/16/2019, 08:43 AM

From what I recall, your bio filtration meets the load of the tank, this is why when adding fish if you add too many at once, you risk crashing the tank or having spikes. Once the bio filtration catches back up to the bio load, the tank stabilizes. The pourous rock you have is the filtration. Think of your rocks as Kidneys.

Currently your tank if running properly is maintaining itself, if you were to remove the rock, you look at crashing your tank. Pretty much a guarantee.

Generally we don't consider the sand to be a bio filter. This is why many guys go with no sand in their tanks. We generally use sand for aesthetic purposes.

A DSB is a whole other debate on it's own, but you don't have one, so it doesn't matter.

The fact its a small tank doesn't help either. You're playing with a very tight window.

Case in point - I've moved my whole setup 3 times now to different tanks. Every time I've done so all I moved was the live rock and the live stock, new sand and new water and I've never had a single issue. I've never reused the old sand as it generally is just a crap holder.

This just goes to show how important the rock is over the sand. The sand is a non-factor.

If you were serious about removing most of the rock in the display, your best option is to plumb a sump with a HOB overflow and move all your rock to the sump. Make sure the sump is large enough so you have the ability to add more in the future. You can never get enough live rock.

This way you keep the biological filtration and can have a minimalist look in the display.

dmsprague · 01/16/2019, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickey204

From what I recall, your bio filtration meets the load of the tank, this is why when adding fish if you add too many at once, you risk crashing the tank or having spikes. Once the bio filtration catches back up to the bio load, the tank stabilizes. The pourous rock you have is the filtration. Think of your rocks as Kidneys.

Currently your tank if running properly is maintaining itself, if you were to remove the rock, you look at crashing your tank. Pretty much a guarantee.

Generally we don't consider the sand to be a bio filter. This is why many guys go with no sand in their tanks. We generally use sand for aesthetic purposes.

A DSB is a whole other debate on it's own, but you don't have one, so it doesn't matter.

The fact its a small tank doesn't help either. You're playing with a very tight window.

Case in point - I've moved my whole setup 3 times now to different tanks. Every time I've done so all I moved was the live rock and the live stock, new sand and new water and I've never had a single issue. I've never reused the old sand as it generally is just a crap holder.

This just goes to show how important the rock is over the sand. The sand is a non-factor.

If you were serious about removing most of the rock in the display, your best option is to plumb a sump with a HOB overflow and move all your rock to the sump. Make sure the sump is large enough so you have the ability to add more in the future. You can never get enough live rock.

This way you keep the biological filtration and can have a minimalist look in the display.

Thank you very much! That is the info I was looking for but probably didn't explain myself well. I was wondering if the sand could serve as a bio filter. I didn't think it could but wasn't sure thats why I asked.This small tank is actually the cleanest of my tanks as far as nitrates are concerned but water changes are so easy and cheap I do them more often.

You had to go and mention a HOB overflow.

I have a spare and have toyed with idea of plumbing this tank into the others in the basement sump but not sure if Momma is going to let me drill more holes in the floor.

01/11/2019, 04:15 PM	#1
dmsprague Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 139	Removing most live rock and keeping sand? Hello All, I have googled this and have not found the answer as most info is on new tanks. I have a JBJ 28 gallon that has been up and running for over a year. I have a 2-3" sand bed that is full of critters. I see the worms sending out tendrils and eating and pods crawling around. My question is can I remove most of my live rock and depend on the sand bed for biological filtration. Live stock is a small pair of gold nugget maroon clowns with a bubble tip nem, one small chromis, one small yellow watchman goby, a coral banded shrimp, one small emerald crab and two maxima clams 1 about 2.5" and 1 about 3.5". I have live rock availabe that has been in my sump and other tanks for 2-3 years plus the rock that is currently in the tank. I can not get the aquascape to look the way i want it. I want to have just a piece or two (probably keep the one the nem is on) and leave more room on the sand bed for corals and the future growth of the clams. I guess after rambling I am curious just how much live rock I would really "have to have" with a mature sand bed and the current bio load? I do not have a sump and use the 2 return pumps and an MP10 for circulation. TIA

01/11/2019, 06:45 PM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	No one can answer that question...way too many variables... Its entirely possible that some can be removed...trial and error is in your future.. Remove some and see how it goes... There can be a heck of a lot of bacteria on/in good porous rock.. __________________ Who me?

01/14/2019, 01:22 PM	#3
dmsprague Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 139	Thanks mcgyvr. I ended up just moving some rock around from the other tanks and sump to get the 28 looking more the way I wanted it. Clams are doing to good to risk a possible ammonia spike.

01/15/2019, 12:00 PM	#4
Kevin Guthrie Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 506	If your tanks share a sump then the potential for trouble goes way down.

01/15/2019, 06:45 PM	#5
dmsprague Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 139	This tank is all alone. Its a jbj 28 gallon AIO in the bedroom. My 180 and 150 share a 125 gallon sump.

01/16/2019, 08:43 AM	#6
mickey204 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 141	From what I recall, your bio filtration meets the load of the tank, this is why when adding fish if you add too many at once, you risk crashing the tank or having spikes. Once the bio filtration catches back up to the bio load, the tank stabilizes. The pourous rock you have is the filtration. Think of your rocks as Kidneys. Currently your tank if running properly is maintaining itself, if you were to remove the rock, you look at crashing your tank. Pretty much a guarantee. Generally we don't consider the sand to be a bio filter. This is why many guys go with no sand in their tanks. We generally use sand for aesthetic purposes. A DSB is a whole other debate on it's own, but you don't have one, so it doesn't matter. The fact its a small tank doesn't help either. You're playing with a very tight window. Case in point - I've moved my whole setup 3 times now to different tanks. Every time I've done so all I moved was the live rock and the live stock, new sand and new water and I've never had a single issue. I've never reused the old sand as it generally is just a crap holder. This just goes to show how important the rock is over the sand. The sand is a non-factor. If you were serious about removing most of the rock in the display, your best option is to plumb a sump with a HOB overflow and move all your rock to the sump. Make sure the sump is large enough so you have the ability to add more in the future. You can never get enough live rock. This way you keep the biological filtration and can have a minimalist look in the display.