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Unread 08/26/2014, 12:32 PM   #101
aleithol
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I should have added, if you have multiple cables going from the varspeed port to the pump, swap them and give them a try. Several of us over on Neptune Systems Community forum have found our Neptune-to-Tunze cables are very loose... You have to trim back the plastic on the DIN plug so it seats deeper in the Tunze block, and even then, they are sorta wiggly, giving irradic connections some times.


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Unread 08/26/2014, 02:05 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by aleithol View Post
I should have added, if you have multiple cables going from the varspeed port to the pump, swap them and give them a try. Several of us over on Neptune Systems Community forum have found our Neptune-to-Tunze cables are very loose... You have to trim back the plastic on the DIN plug so it seats deeper in the Tunze block, and even then, they are sorta wiggly, giving irradic connections some times.
Great advice on the DIN connector going into the Tunze. I pull the plastic back as far as it will go but trimming the plastic is a good approach as well

Chunck,
I assume you looked at the LED's over the VDM ports on the Apex brain and they are not flashing? If so, I'd definitely contact Neptune support. If they are flashing, it could be that you are either using the wrong ports which is unlikely or it's even possible that the Apex has a phantom set of VDM ports in which case a remote session with a Neptune tech should resolve that. I'd give them a call and see if you can get them to remote in once you have ascertained whether your LED's are illuminated above the ports on the Apex brain.

In the mean time, I am glad you have them working on your VDM module.


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Unread 08/26/2014, 02:08 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by aleithol View Post
Chunk78: FWIW, with Tunze controllable pumps, something I learned and validated a while back is best practice is to drive the ramp (intensity) from 30% up to whatever you want it to be... Never start at 0%. Issue as validated by Roger at Tunze USA is the pumps will wear a lot faster if you try to drive them from 1-29%. There apparently isn't enough voltage to consistently start them spinning until 30%. ...so, while the Apex will accept something like 0%-100% in a profile since it does not know there is a Tunze pump plugged in to the varspeed port, and the controller or VDM will drive that voltage to your pump as you request, the pump won't really do anything until it hits about 30% intensity. If you slow timing down, you'll see how the pumps sorta stall at the beginning of a 0%-> ramp. It's in that period of time getting to 30%, where the additional wear will take place.

The question at least for me then became, how do you turn the pumps off? Answer is set them to 0% intensity or better yet so you don't waste a precious profile, just turn them OFF in advanced programming. ...then the next question was what happens if you turn the pump ON in advanced programming or via a dashboard slider? Answer is it runs at 100% intensity.
Interesting. I've been running my pumps this way for almost 4 years now with no issues. The again, since my minimum power level and max power level oscillate back and forth within fractions of a second, the time between 0 & 30% would be milliseconds in which case, it probably doesn't matter and they start and stop fine creating a great surge effect.


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Unread 08/26/2014, 04:32 PM   #104
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Interesting. I've been running my pumps this way for almost 4 years now with no issues. The again, since my minimum power level and max power level oscillate back and forth within fractions of a second, the time between 0 & 30% would be milliseconds in which case, it probably doesn't matter and they start and stop fine creating a great surge effect.
Yes, I've always thought that would be the case... but I just state it as I was told from the horses mouth so-to-speak. It's those longer ramp ups and downs that will probably produce the wear, but I can't confirm that as fact... Tunze only officially supports their controllers, and while everyone is friendly and helpful, they are careful to not represent how a non-Tunze controller works or impacts their pumps. I get where they are trying to draw the line with that, having spent all my career in the corporate technical support world with customers. :-)


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Unread 08/26/2014, 04:56 PM   #105
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Yes, I've always thought that would be the case... but I just state it as I was told from the horses mouth so-to-speak. It's those longer ramp ups and downs that will probably produce the wear, but I can't confirm that as fact... Tunze only officially supports their controllers, and while everyone is friendly and helpful, they are careful to not represent how a non-Tunze controller works or impacts their pumps. I get where they are trying to draw the line with that, having spent all my career in the corporate technical support world with customers. :-)
Funny thing is that my initial tests and tuning was done with the Tunze 7096 controller. Once I figured out the best settings for my tank, I simply duplicated those setting in my Apex. Long ramps from 0 did nothing for my tank but the fast on/off pulses are what created the best motion. Again, this was something that was essentially duplicated from the Tunze controller after a fair amount of experimentation.


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Unread 08/26/2014, 08:30 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleithol View Post
Yes, I've always thought that would be the case... but I just state it as I was told from the horses mouth so-to-speak. It's those longer ramp ups and downs that will probably produce the wear, but I can't confirm that as fact... Tunze only officially supports their controllers, and while everyone is friendly and helpful, they are careful to not represent how a non-Tunze controller works or impacts their pumps. I get where they are trying to draw the line with that, having spent all my career in the corporate technical support world with customers. :-)

While it is true that Roger and Tunze has said you should not use 1-29% in your profiles they have not said do not use 0 in them. They suggest not running them at least than 30. 0 is off so you are not peering them at less than 30% in this case.


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Unread 08/27/2014, 05:48 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by BIGD0G View Post
While it is true that Roger and Tunze has said you should not use 1-29% in your profiles they have not said do not use 0 in them. They suggest not running them at least than 30. 0 is off so you are not peering them at less than 30% in this case.
Agreed. It's why I was very specific in my numbers and multiple caveats in my original post to Chunk78, or at least tried to get it right the first time! :-) Appreciate the confirmation.
Quote:
...how do you turn the pumps off? Answer is set them to 0% intensity or better yet so you don't waste a precious profile, just turn them OFF in advanced programming...



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Unread 10/30/2014, 11:26 AM   #108
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slief, thanks for posting this it does help those of us who don't understand much about programming anything. I think I follow your settings of the Stream1&2 and your pump profiles but the timer confuses me. Can you explain in more detail what it is doing and how it works and also where you program the timer? Is that line put in each vs outlet or is it an outlet on its on? I really dont understand it. Thanks!


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Unread 10/30/2014, 11:49 AM   #109
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slief, thanks for posting this it does help those of us who don't understand much about programming anything. I think I follow your settings of the Stream1&2 and your pump profiles but the timer confuses me. Can you explain in more detail what it is doing and how it works and also where you program the timer? Is that line put in each vs outlet or is it an outlet on its on? I really dont understand it. Thanks!
Timer1, Timer2 and timer3 are virtual outlets. I coped this from post 4 as it explains how they work. The lines below the Timer description are the programming I used in those virtual outlets to trigger and or prevent the timers outlets from turning on. The OSC statement activates the virtual outlet from an off state to an on state at specific intervals. The other lines of code prevent it from turning on regardless of what the OSC statement says. This in my eyes, keeps things a bit more random.

I give a basic explanation of how the OSC statement the timer virtual outlets work according to how I have it programmed. That explanation is below in red.

Timer1 (turns on every 120 minutes for 10 minutes.. If timer 2 is on at that time, timer1 should remain off)

OSC 120:00/010:00/000:00 Then ON
If Outlet Timer2 = ON Then OFF
If Time 19:30 to 11:30 Then OFF
If FeedA 000 Then OFF

Timer2 (turns on every 45 minutes for 15 minutes except if timer 3 is on)

OSC 045:00/015:00/000:00 Then ON
If Outlet Timer3 = ON Then OFF
If Time 19:30 to 11:30 Then OFF
If FeedA 000 Then OFF

Timer3 (turn on every 15 minutes for 5 minutes except if timer 1 is on)

OSC 015:00/005:00/000:00 Then ON
If Outlet Timer1 = ON Then OFF
If Time 19:30 to 11:30 Then OFF
If FeedA 000 Then OFF


When a virtual outlet turns on, certain profiles are activated.
Here is the Variable Speed port outlets programming that control two of my Tunzes. The timers allow for various flow profiles to turn on somewhat randomly so that my flow patterns are mixed up throughout the day as opposed to consistent.

StreamLt
Set Wave1
If Time 10:30 to 11:59 Then duskdawn
If Time 12:00 to 19:00 Then Wave1
If Time 19:01 to 20:00 Then duskdawn
If Time 20:01 to 10:29 Then Night
If Outlet Timer1 = ON Then Lt_Flush
If Outlet Timer2 = ON Then duskdawn
If Outlet Timer3 = ON Then Wave2
If FeedA 000 Then OFF


StreamRt
Set Wave1
If Time 10:30 to 11:59 Then duskdawn
If Time 12:00 to 19:00 Then Wave1
If Time 19:01 to 20:00 Then duskdawn
If Time 20:01 to 10:29 Then Night
If Outlet Timer1 = ON Then Rt_Flush
If Outlet Timer2 = ON Then duskdawn
If Outlet Timer3 = ON Then Wave2
If FeedA 000 Then OFF


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Unread 10/30/2014, 12:38 PM   #110
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Thanks this does help a lot. Is there a reason you don't have the timers off from 1900-1159 so that your dusk/dawn and night modes are guaranteed to not be interrupted?


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Unread 10/30/2014, 01:50 PM   #111
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Also, what is the Set Wave1 statement for?


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Unread 10/30/2014, 02:06 PM   #112
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Thanks this does help a lot. Is there a reason you don't have the timers off from 1900-1159 so that your dusk/dawn and night modes are guaranteed to not be interrupted?


Glad to help.. Regarding not interrupting dusk dawn. Good catch.. You are the first person to notice that... I probably should adjust my "If Time 19:30 to 11:30 Then OFF" line in my timers to "If Time 19:00 to 11:59 Then OFF" or adjust my dusk/dawn on off times.

That said, Timer1 comes on every 2 hours (starting from 12AM) so that won't interrupt the dusk dawn because that wouldn't turn on for the first time until 12PM.

Timer2 occurs every 45 minutes and since that triggers dusk/dawn anyway, that won't impact the dusk dawn profile during those hours.

Timer3 however will interrupt that and it trigger wave1. As such, I will definately go back and make an adjustment there.


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Unread 10/30/2014, 02:12 PM   #113
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Also, what is the Set Wave1 statement for?
Set Wave1 sets the default wave profile to wave1. It only changes when timers or "If Time" statements change the variable speed port to a different profile. This works much the same way when you have Set On or Set Off as the first program line of in an outlet program. The outlet will default On or Off when the Apex isn't connected.


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Unread 10/30/2014, 02:14 PM   #114
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OK I was just wondering if it was on purpose. I assume you have named your VS1 StreamLT and your VS2 StreamRT (or vise versa) and that is where you are programming the If time statements for the various profiles and timers, I still dont know what the first line "Set Wave1" is for or if it is necessary. Does that just default it to that profile if it loses contact with the apex?


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Unread 10/30/2014, 02:29 PM   #115
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OK I was just wondering if it was on purpose. I assume you have named your VS1 StreamLT and your VS2 StreamRT (or vise versa) and that is where you are programming the If time statements for the various profiles and timers, I still dont know what the first line "Set Wave1" is for or if it is necessary. Does that just default it to that profile if it loses contact with the apex?
Yes.. I renamed VS1 to stream LT and VS2 to StreamRT.

As I said in my last reply, "Set Wave1" sets the default wave pattern and the "If Time" and "Timer" statements change the modes from there. Since the variable speed ports are part of the Apex brain, if the Apex dies, the pumps default to the postion of the trim pod on the Tunze control box so the Set Wave1 would not be in play under that scenario.

I would guess that the "If Time" and "Timer" statements alone would be enough and one could probably do without the "Set Wave1" statement. It's been so long since I programmed these that I don't recall if the "Set Wave1" was needed or not. In hindsight, I probably started with 1 default profile (Wave1) and the Set Wave1 would have been the logical simple implementation of that profile. After getting it working, I added more profiles based on time and timers and kept adding on from there leaving the Set Wave1 in the programming. I never experimented with removing "Set Wave1" since it was already working as planned. As such, it may just work fine without that line of code.


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Unread 10/30/2014, 02:59 PM   #116
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Ok thanks. For some reason when u first replied I couldn't see it all. Just don't want you to think I'm crazy. Thanks for all the help!


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Unread 10/30/2014, 04:47 PM   #117
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Ok thanks. For some reason when u first replied I couldn't see it all. Just don't want you to think I'm crazy. Thanks for all the help!
I probably hit reply whiile you were typing... Glad to help! Report back with the results and remember that the power and on/off times were optimized for my tank size and powerheard placement. What works great for me may not work as well for you. As such, be sure to play with the profile settings once you get it setup. I had the luxury of using a Tunze controller to figure out what worked best for me and then used that info when creating my profiles which really simplified things and elminated much of the experimenting.


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Unread 10/30/2014, 06:49 PM   #118
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Thanks a lot. I'm cleaning my original 6105 tonite and just got a new one today. I'll be putting them both online this weekend. My tank is a 180 and my placement is different so I figure I will have to adjust the profiles themselves but your overall programming and layout has been a tremendous help. One last question, do you have the trim pod on the tunze turned all the way up? I would assume so. Thanks again!


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Unread 10/30/2014, 09:19 PM   #119
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Thanks a lot. I'm cleaning my original 6105 tonite and just got a new one today. I'll be putting them both online this weekend. My tank is a 180 and my placement is different so I figure I will have to adjust the profiles themselves but your overall programming and layout has been a tremendous help. One last question, do you have the trim pod on the tunze turned all the way up? I would assume so. Thanks again!
I don't remember where I had them set last. Once you them plugged in to the Aoex ved port, the Apex disables the trim pots anyway.


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Unread 10/31/2014, 04:51 AM   #120
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I don't remember where I had them set last. Once you them plugged in to the Aoex ved port, the Apex disables the trim pots anyway.
Thanks!


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Unread 12/04/2014, 08:47 PM   #121
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Can I just copy and paste and will this work with jebao using apex/ghl connection?


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Unread 12/04/2014, 09:04 PM   #122
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Can I just copy and paste and will this work with jebao using apex/ghl connection?
I would imagine the code should work fine for the Jebao's. As for your cable, if it's designed to provide 0-10v control from the Apex Variable speed ports to the Jebao, it should work fine too. The Jebao's run from 0-5v so the cable needs to be designed for Apex 0-10v to Jebao's 5v which is just a matter of a resistor in line in the wiring.


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Unread 12/05/2014, 12:47 PM   #123
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confused on timers where do you put that info in at


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Unread 12/05/2014, 03:52 PM   #124
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confused on timers where do you put that info in at
Timers are virtual outlets that you will need to create. I created multiple virtual outlets. Timer1, Timer2, Timer3 and used "advanced" to add those lines of code covered on page 1 of this thread. The timers add some random behaviour to the flow.

Timer code is as follows:
Timer1 (turns on every 120 minutes for 10 minutes. If timer 2 is on at that time, it should remain off.
OSC 120:00/010:00/000:00 Then ON
If Outlet Timer2 = ON Then OFF
If Time 19:30 to 11:30 Then OFF
If FeedA 000 Then OFF

Timer2 (turns on every 45 minutes for 15 minutes except if timer 3 is on)
OSC 045:00/015:00/000:00 Then ON
If Outlet Timer3 = ON Then OFF
If Time 19:30 to 11:30 Then OFF
If FeedA 000 Then OFF

Timer3 (turn on every 15 minutes for 5 minutes except if timer 1 is on)
OSC 015:00/005:00/000:00 Then ON
If Outlet Timer1 = ON Then OFF
If Time 19:30 to 11:30 Then OFF
If FeedA 000 Then OFF


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Unread 12/06/2014, 01:11 PM   #125
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Am I able to use apex fusion to create virtual outlets and use advanced


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