Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Do It Yourself
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 11/25/2014, 12:28 PM   #1
metzz71
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 44
DIY water heater setup to heat tank

I just wanted to share my setup I installed over the weekend. I purchased the Laing E1 pump that is meant for under the sink installation. My sump is about 20-25 feet from the display tank, in a utility room that is not insulated. Thus, my heating bill has been rather high. One concern I had was running plumbing 30 feet across my finished basement, the E1 solved this. Secondly, I wanted a pump made for 65 lbs of water pressure, again E1 solved this.

The Laing E1 is meant to be installed at the faucet furthest from the water heater. It has a hot/cold in and out ports. The top of the pump housing includes a check valve that opens when the pump is running and closed when not. This pump eliminates the need for a "cold loop" back to the heater utilizing the cold circuit while also utilizing the hot/cold circuits already in the utility room for the utility tub faucet. The pump also has a built in thermostat that starts the pump when it senses the water temp at 86 degrees and stops it when it reaches 96 degrees. It has a built in timer that is not needed in my setup with my aqua controller.

I currently have an aqua controller (RKE, sigh......) to control the pump on off. Therefore, 100ft of pex, Laing Pump, and various Pex fittings was all that was required to make this setup successful.

The hot supply is connected to a Tee that has one out to the hot side of the utility faucet and the second runs thru about 50ft of Pex that is submerged in the sump, then into the hot supply port on the pump. This Tee will prevent the 65ft of Pex from being heated by running the hot faucet alone. The only time the 65ft of Pex is heated is when the pump is running. This also requires a cap on the hot output of the pump.

The cold supply is connected to the cold supply of the pump and the cold out of the pump is then run to the cold side of the faucet.

I set the RKE to 77.5 degrees as a controller with the Hysteresis at .5 therefore allowing a 1 degree flux in heating. This may not be the final setting as I am still testing to see the best results. As of today, the pump is on for 5 min and off for 20 min.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0110.jpg (48.3 KB, 319 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0111.jpg (39.8 KB, 306 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0112.jpg (41.7 KB, 286 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0113.jpg (45.6 KB, 272 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0114.jpg (40.6 KB, 253 views)
__________________
110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT)
Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump
Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller

Last edited by metzz71; 11/25/2014 at 12:36 PM.
metzz71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/27/2014, 06:37 AM   #2
muttley000
MTS Sufferer!
 
muttley000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 1,926
Like it! I set up my hot water loop last weekend and tested it. Rock solid at 77 for the 36 hour test and brought 200 gallons to temp in less than an hour. I am running mine on dual Rancos because no controller yet. I felt this was a better solution than electric for a large system in an unheated space. Looking forward to hearing your long term results.


__________________
Next step on the system is adding A 90 gallon!

Current Tank Info: 475 multitank system is now running! Several hundred gallons of additions planned!
muttley000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/27/2014, 09:04 AM   #3
metzz71
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 44
Thanks mutely! Thus far I have seen a decrease in kWh's by +/- 10 in the electric usage! This is huge! I am trying to decide which is best, on for 1 min/off for 5 min or on for 5 off for 20min. The more frequent the pump is on, the more stable the temp, 77~77.5. With it on for 5/20, the temp fluctuates 77~78. Also playing with temp probe placement. Should it be next to the coil loop? in front of it? behind it? etc.


__________________
110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT)
Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump
Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller
metzz71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/27/2014, 06:30 PM   #4
zachts
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO.
Posts: 3,259
Nice build. Keeping an eye on this thread for future use. I'd place the temp probe in your display since that is the water volume whose temperature you are wanting to maintain.


zachts is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/27/2014, 07:18 PM   #5
metzz71
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachts View Post
Nice build. Keeping an eye on this thread for future use. I'd place the temp probe in your display since that is the water volume whose temperature you are wanting to maintain.
Thanks! I keep the temp probe in the sump to keep it out of my DT, but it is 20~25 ft away, so I adjust 2 degrees for the difference.

I will post more as I get more details.


__________________
110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT)
Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump
Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller
metzz71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/27/2014, 07:51 PM   #6
gbru316
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lancaster,PA
Posts: 1,720
Quote:
Originally Posted by metzz71 View Post
Thanks! I keep the temp probe in the sump to keep it out of my DT, but it is 20~25 ft away, so I adjust 2 degrees for the difference.

I will post more as I get more details.
Any concern that nonstatic flow rates in your plumbing (over time) or seasonal room temp changes will cause the required temp offset to change, perhaps unknowingly?


Temp probes are small, I'd keep it in the display for peace of mind.


gbru316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/27/2014, 08:30 PM   #7
smb2415
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Wallingford, CT
Posts: 738
Metzz71 I too built a similar solution and its been running for 1yr now. This has by far been the single best investment in my system. 800g total system and heated for next to $0. System has been rock solid, silent, and keeps temp within about 1 degree given current hystersis.

there are some to claim the cost for fuel however with these systems using heat from our hot water systems and not furnace/boilers we are utilizing heat which would likely just be sitting there and lost as we are not constantly using hot water.

Heres a link to my build thread of the HW system.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2285507


__________________
Custom 7'x3'x42"tall 550g glass DT/~800g system. (GHL Mitras died) - looking for new solution. Hammerhead / DC10000 / MP60. Bean overflow C2C. Apex. Custom Heater.
smb2415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/27/2014, 09:38 PM   #8
metzz71
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by smb2415 View Post
Metzz71 I too built a similar solution and its been running for 1yr now. This has by far been the single best investment in my system. 800g total system and heated for next to $0. System has been rock solid, silent, and keeps temp within about 1 degree given current hystersis.

there are some to claim the cost for fuel however with these systems using heat from our hot water systems and not furnace/boilers we are utilizing heat which would likely just be sitting there and lost as we are not constantly using hot water.

Heres a link to my build thread of the HW system.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2285507

Yes! I read your thread and another couple which gave me the solution to my $$ electric bill problem. I was looking for an efficient heating solution. THANK YOU! I found this "new" style pump that allowed me to use the hot/cold pipes already in the room. BONUS! My wife is very happy for the hot water at the faucets!


__________________
110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT)
Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump
Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller
metzz71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/27/2014, 09:47 PM   #9
smb2415
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Wallingford, CT
Posts: 738
Same here!! instant hot water has been a pleasant addition.


__________________
Custom 7'x3'x42"tall 550g glass DT/~800g system. (GHL Mitras died) - looking for new solution. Hammerhead / DC10000 / MP60. Bean overflow C2C. Apex. Custom Heater.
smb2415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/28/2014, 01:08 AM   #10
pandimus
Registered Member
 
pandimus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Palmdale
Posts: 2,556
What did you get the pump for? What I've seen they spendy..I don't quite get where the water goes after the pump? Back to the water heater?


__________________
~SFVR Member~
125 Gal Long/50 Gal sump,
2xMP40QD,Aquamax CONES CO-03/Speed Wave dc return
4x AI Sol Blues/Director + 2 80w T5 retrofit/Apex Controller

Current Tank Info: 125 gal 72X18X22
pandimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/28/2014, 09:23 AM   #11
zachts
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO.
Posts: 3,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbru316 View Post
Any concern that nonstatic flow rates in your plumbing (over time) or seasonal room temp changes will cause the required temp offset to change, perhaps unknowingly?


Temp probes are small, I'd keep it in the display for peace of mind.
Just run the wire along your plumbing up to the DT.


zachts is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/28/2014, 10:43 AM   #12
smb2415
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Wallingford, CT
Posts: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandimus View Post
What did you get the pump for? What I've seen they spendy..I don't quite get where the water goes after the pump? Back to the water heater?
The idea is to create a loop with the hot water heater outlet At the start and the hot water heater side inlet as the end. Somewhere inbetween is a pump (controlled by your aquarium heater controller) and the loop of piping submersed in your sump (does the actual heating of the aquarium water).


__________________
Custom 7'x3'x42"tall 550g glass DT/~800g system. (GHL Mitras died) - looking for new solution. Hammerhead / DC10000 / MP60. Bean overflow C2C. Apex. Custom Heater.
smb2415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/28/2014, 11:02 AM   #13
pandimus
Registered Member
 
pandimus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Palmdale
Posts: 2,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by smb2415 View Post
The idea is to create a loop with the hot water heater outlet At the start and the hot water heater side inlet as the end. Somewhere inbetween is a pump (controlled by your aquarium heater controller) and the loop of piping submersed in your sump (does the actual heating of the aquarium water).
Thanks understand now


__________________
~SFVR Member~
125 Gal Long/50 Gal sump,
2xMP40QD,Aquamax CONES CO-03/Speed Wave dc return
4x AI Sol Blues/Director + 2 80w T5 retrofit/Apex Controller

Current Tank Info: 125 gal 72X18X22
pandimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/28/2014, 11:13 AM   #14
metzz71
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandimus View Post
What did you get the pump for? What I've seen they spendy..I don't quite get where the water goes after the pump? Back to the water heater?
Yes, they are a bit $$$. I found my "used" on amazon site for $200. I also checked craigslist and eBay for used ones. home depot has a version online only for $240... overall I expect to get my money back in about 1 year. I have dropped 10 kilowatt hours/day since installation last weekend.


__________________
110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT)
Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump
Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller
metzz71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/28/2014, 11:56 AM   #15
pandimus
Registered Member
 
pandimus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Palmdale
Posts: 2,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by metzz71 View Post
Yes, they are a bit $$$. I found my "used" on amazon site for $200. I also checked craigslist and eBay for used ones. home depot has a version online only for $240... overall I expect to get my money back in about 1 year. I have dropped 10 kilowatt hours/day since installation last weekend.
What is your total water volume?


__________________
~SFVR Member~
125 Gal Long/50 Gal sump,
2xMP40QD,Aquamax CONES CO-03/Speed Wave dc return
4x AI Sol Blues/Director + 2 80w T5 retrofit/Apex Controller

Current Tank Info: 125 gal 72X18X22
pandimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/28/2014, 12:34 PM   #16
metzz71
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandimus View Post
what is your total water volume?
120+/-


__________________
110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT)
Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump
Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller
metzz71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/28/2014, 10:20 PM   #17
smb2415
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Wallingford, CT
Posts: 738
the pump I used was $180

I debated using a CHEAP pump usually used in solar applications but in the end I wanted something I knew was going to be problem free for years.

here is a link to one of those solar type pumps for less than $40, you would need to provide power supply.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/251727935410?lpid=82


__________________
Custom 7'x3'x42"tall 550g glass DT/~800g system. (GHL Mitras died) - looking for new solution. Hammerhead / DC10000 / MP60. Bean overflow C2C. Apex. Custom Heater.
smb2415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/29/2014, 08:02 AM   #18
salty joe
Registered Member
 
salty joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: medina, ohio
Posts: 2,419
I got this little bronze pump for $118 to the door from eBay a few months ago.
Taco® Circulating Pump with 1/2" Sweat Connections (006-BC4)


__________________
Time to roll the dice.
salty joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/29/2014, 09:43 AM   #19
muttley000
MTS Sufferer!
 
muttley000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 1,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by salty joe View Post
I got this little bronze pump for $118 to the door from eBay a few months ago.
Taco® Circulating Pump with 1/2" Sweat Connections (006-BC4)
Exact same pump I am using! You got it 10 bucks cheaper than I found it though


__________________
Next step on the system is adding A 90 gallon!

Current Tank Info: 475 multitank system is now running! Several hundred gallons of additions planned!
muttley000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/29/2014, 12:38 PM   #20
pandimus
Registered Member
 
pandimus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Palmdale
Posts: 2,556
Is there a way to just tap into the flex hoses on the water heater?


__________________
~SFVR Member~
125 Gal Long/50 Gal sump,
2xMP40QD,Aquamax CONES CO-03/Speed Wave dc return
4x AI Sol Blues/Director + 2 80w T5 retrofit/Apex Controller

Current Tank Info: 125 gal 72X18X22
pandimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/29/2014, 03:34 PM   #21
salty joe
Registered Member
 
salty joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: medina, ohio
Posts: 2,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by muttley000 View Post
Exact same pump I am using! You got it 10 bucks cheaper than I found it though
You still got a good deal...I just got lucky

Quote:
Originally Posted by pandimus View Post
Is there a way to just tap into the flex hoses on the water heater?
I don't think so. You might be able to unscrew them and add Ts though.


__________________
Time to roll the dice.
salty joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/29/2014, 05:12 PM   #22
smb2415
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Wallingford, CT
Posts: 738
the "flex" hoses? are they rubber or hard plastic like pex?

if they are the rubber kind then you'll need to use Saltys suggestion


__________________
Custom 7'x3'x42"tall 550g glass DT/~800g system. (GHL Mitras died) - looking for new solution. Hammerhead / DC10000 / MP60. Bean overflow C2C. Apex. Custom Heater.
smb2415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/30/2014, 12:28 PM   #23
one clownfish
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 279
I did the same thing on my 200 a few years back. It was one of the best upgrades I've ever done. A lot of people don't like this system because it uses the house hot water tank instead of a dedicated hot water tank. Their biggest problem with it is, in the summer you have water sitting in the heat exchanger for 6-8 months, depending where you live. Then, in the fall when the tank calls for hot water, all the nasty water gets mixed in with your clean hotwater. I added enough hose so I could pull the heat exchanger out from the sump and set it on top. Then, I would cycle the the pump 6x/day, 5 min/cycle through out the summer. Problem fixed


one clownfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/30/2014, 04:17 PM   #24
metzz71
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 44
great heads up Clown! I had not thought about the summer months, but I do believe I will be okay as my heaters run all season long (except for a couple weeks). My setup is in my basement and as long as we don't have 95+ for days on end, I have been okay.


__________________
110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT)
Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump
Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller
metzz71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/30/2014, 05:16 PM   #25
zachts
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO.
Posts: 3,259
what about a couple valves so it can be switched to pump cold water rather than hot water in the summer? Unless your on well water it wouldn't be practical to use for cooling but could be switched on once in a while to keep the lines flushed.......


zachts is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.