DIY water heater setup to heat tank - Page 2

metzz71 · 11/30/2014, 05:18 PM

In my setup, all I need to do is turn the pump on manually a couple times a month.

smb2415 · 11/30/2014, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachts

what about a couple valves so it can be switched to pump cold water rather than hot water in the summer? Unless your on well water it wouldn't be practical to use for cooling but could be switched on once in a while to keep the lines flushed.......

You could do this with well water however the water in the pressure tank is at room temp, not really cold enough to chill tank water.

In the summer you could program the heater to turn on 1-2 times a day for 1-2min. It wouldn't raise the tank temp all that much if any, and it would keep the water from going stagnant. I have my heater loop plumbed so I could remove it or bypass it I wanted to.

metzz71 · 12/17/2014, 12:24 PM

So far I'm averaging about a 10kwh savings per day!

smb2415 · 12/17/2014, 07:23 PM

thats awesome. I have no idea how much Im saving but I figure Id need (2) 1000w heaters at a min.

metzz71 · 12/17/2014, 10:01 PM

You have a lot more volume than I. I was running two 300 watt heaters.

GlassReef · 07/13/2016, 07:39 PM

Hi all! I know I'm a couple of years late to the party but just in case - if I understand the OP correctly, if I have a Laing E1 circulation pump, I can hook up the whole thing to the Hot and Cold water connections under the utility sink in my fish room, which is the most distant faucet from my water heater. Is this correct I don't have to connect anything directly to the water heater?

Thanks for any input.

smb2415 · 07/13/2016, 09:09 PM

GlassReef - you are correct, you don't need anything directly connected to the water heater. in your case the pump is at the furthest point in your hot water line. the pump then pulls hot water from the hot water line to the outlet side of the pump which is then connected to a loop of piping sitting in your sump. the end of the pipe loop then connects to a check valve and then to the cold water line. then pump would then be controlled through some some temp controller triggered by sump temp.

On of the things you want to watch for is that your cold water may get warm. However the most important and critical thing is that the aquarium water must never mix with your drinking water so keep all connections well clear of submersion in the sump.

lovefish134 · 07/13/2016, 09:57 PM

That looks good.

GlassReef · 07/13/2016, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smb2415

GlassReef - you are correct, you don't need anything directly connected to the water heater. in your case the pump is at the furthest point in your hot water line. the pump then pulls hot water from the hot water line to the outlet side of the pump which is then connected to a loop of piping sitting in your sump. the end of the pipe loop then connects to a check valve and then to the cold water line. then pump would then be controlled through some some temp controller triggered by sump temp.

On of the things you want to watch for is that your cold water may get warm. However the most important and critical thing is that the aquarium water must never mix with your drinking water so keep all connections well clear of submersion in the sump.

Thanks for the quick response - after almost 2 years.

... and thanks for the tips.

LXXero · 07/14/2016, 11:48 AM

wow this is a really cool idea i've never heard of til now, so basically you guys are using re-circulation pumps meant for getting hot water to your sink/tub/shower in far-off rooms, and instead using it as basically a heat exchanger for the aquarium. Plus I bet you get instant hot water too, as someone mentioned. My house also has CPVC plumbing so it tends to take forever for the heat to get there, I bet this would solve both problems at once. Could probably tie into bathroom plumbing in a near by bath. Very tempting.

jduck · 07/14/2016, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LXXero

wow this is a really cool idea i've never heard of til now, so basically you guys are using re-circulation pumps meant for getting hot water to your sink/tub/shower in far-off rooms, and instead using it as basically a heat exchanger for the aquarium. Plus I bet you get instant hot water too, as someone mentioned. My house also has CPVC plumbing so it tends to take forever for the heat to get there, I bet this would solve both problems at once. Could probably tie into bathroom plumbing in a near by bath. Very tempting.

Not recommended to tie into those lines. Best going close to water heater.
If you try to get cold water out of the tap it will be hot/warm. Make sure you have a selnoid valve. I had a toilet stick running overnight and cook my tank.

LXXero · 07/15/2016, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jduck

Not recommended to tie into those lines. Best going close to water heater.
If you try to get cold water out of the tap it will be hot/warm. Make sure you have a selnoid valve. I had a toilet stick running overnight and cook my tank.

yeah that makes sense. sounds like really, what you need more than anything, is a dedicated cold return. you could probably share a hot off something else though i imagine?

smb2415 · 07/15/2016, 08:06 AM

+1 jduck. that is true. The most ideal way to plumb this is off the water heater. 2nd best would be to run a line from pump outlet through the sump, check valve, and back to water heater.

Id recommend this type of solution for anyone with over 100g.

EnderG60 · 07/15/2016, 08:34 AM

Honestly running this type of loop off a tank type water heater is simply a bad idea.

If you run it off the existing lines using the cold for a hot return, as said, you will have issues and possibility of major problems if anything goes wrong.

If you run the loop directly off the water heater it will work fine, until summer time when the water in the loop stagnates and starts growing legionella(its very common and deadly), then it starts up again in winter and bam your whole hot water supply is contaminated.

If you have a tank type water heater, you will need a heat exchanger and two pumps. One to run house hot water to the heat exchanger and one to run the tank loop.

In the end I wound up getting a small tankless gas water heater off ebay for about $180 and using that for a dedicated heating system for the tank and I could not be happier. Been running it for about 4-5 years now.

asdfghp · 07/15/2016, 10:03 AM

I built a tube & shell heat exchanger and heat my 150 aquarium with a dedicated zone from my home's boiler. Works sweet! Bet I have the only oil-fired aquarium in New England! Using electricity to heat the tank is just too expensive.

After the fact, I did have to write a "purge" routine to prevent stagnation of the aquarium loop during the summer months. It circulates 30 seconds every four hours (without calling for boiler heat). I bet this is an often overlooked scenario in these situations.

metzz71 · 07/15/2016, 01:31 PM

In my system I use the Laing LHB08100092 which has a built in temp switch that turn off the pump at about 95 +/- degrees. Thus you should not have a problem with cooking your tank.

As for the EnderG60's comment about summer time, valid point, but in my system I am in a basement and my pump continues to run all year long. If you have a controller like mine (www.mact.tech) you could set a minimum for the pump to kick on in the summer to avoid any stagnate water.

I also installed about 25 ft of closely rolled line in my sump. It would be more efficient to use less and gap each coil for more surface area.

muttley000 · 07/31/2016, 06:23 AM

I have been using this for a couple years now. No problems, basement system so stagnation is not a worry. I went direct to hot water heater so I didn't warm up cool water lines. Has saved me tons!

Otiss · 03/03/2017, 01:22 AM

...

Otiss · 03/03/2017, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muttley000

I have been using this for a couple years now. No problems, basement system so stagnation is not a worry. I went direct to hot water heater so I didn't warm up cool water lines. Has saved me tons!

I know this thread is old.. but are you still using your hot water heater to heat your tank?

smb2415 · 03/03/2017, 10:41 AM

2+ years and running strong no issues.

metzz71 · 03/03/2017, 11:24 AM

Same here. Works great and saves $$. Warm faucets to boot! (which makes the wife happy)

Otiss · 03/03/2017, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smb2415

2+ years and running strong no issues.

WIlling to send some pictures to me?

ca1ore · 03/04/2017, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muttley000

I have been using this for a couple years now. No problems, basement system so stagnation is not a worry. I went direct to hot water heater so I didn't warm up cool water lines. Has saved me tons!

I assume the savings is because your water heater runs on gas and gas is cheaper than electricity? I've considered doing this, but my hot water heater is electric and all I'd be doing is 'transferring" costs, not actually saving anything.

metzz71 · 03/04/2017, 10:24 AM

Correct, gas is cheaper. I save nearly 40$ a month over electric heaters to keep my nearly 180g (total) at 77 degrees.

Otiss · 03/04/2017, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metzz71

Correct, gas is cheaper. I save nearly 40$ a month over electric heaters to keep my nearly 180g (total) at 77 degrees.

would you be willing to shoot me some pictures?

Thanks,
Ben

11/30/2014, 05:18 PM	#26
metzz71 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 44	In my setup, all I need to do is turn the pump on manually a couple times a month. __________________ 110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT) Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller

12/17/2014, 12:24 PM	#28
metzz71 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 44	So far I'm averaging about a 10kwh savings per day! __________________ 110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT) Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller

12/17/2014, 07:23 PM	#29
smb2415 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Wallingford, CT Posts: 738	thats awesome. I have no idea how much Im saving but I figure Id need (2) 1000w heaters at a min. __________________ Custom 7'x3'x42"tall 550g glass DT/~800g system. (GHL Mitras died) - looking for new solution. Hammerhead / DC10000 / MP60. Bean overflow C2C. Apex. Custom Heater.

12/17/2014, 10:01 PM	#30
metzz71 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 44	You have a lot more volume than I. I was running two 300 watt heaters. __________________ 110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT) Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller

07/13/2016, 07:39 PM	#31
GlassReef Got Reef Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Weeki Wachee, Florida Posts: 2,501	Better late than never? Hi all! I know I'm a couple of years late to the party but just in case - if I understand the OP correctly, if I have a Laing E1 circulation pump, I can hook up the whole thing to the Hot and Cold water connections under the utility sink in my fish room, which is the most distant faucet from my water heater. Is this correct I don't have to connect anything directly to the water heater? Thanks for any input. __________________ Tom No matter how much you try to push the envelope, it remains stationary.

07/13/2016, 09:09 PM	#32
smb2415 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Wallingford, CT Posts: 738	GlassReef - you are correct, you don't need anything directly connected to the water heater. in your case the pump is at the furthest point in your hot water line. the pump then pulls hot water from the hot water line to the outlet side of the pump which is then connected to a loop of piping sitting in your sump. the end of the pipe loop then connects to a check valve and then to the cold water line. then pump would then be controlled through some some temp controller triggered by sump temp. On of the things you want to watch for is that your cold water may get warm. However the most important and critical thing is that the aquarium water must never mix with your drinking water so keep all connections well clear of submersion in the sump. __________________ Custom 7'x3'x42"tall 550g glass DT/~800g system. (GHL Mitras died) - looking for new solution. Hammerhead / DC10000 / MP60. Bean overflow C2C. Apex. Custom Heater.

07/13/2016, 09:57 PM	#33
lovefish134 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: China Posts: 3	That looks good.

07/14/2016, 11:48 AM	#35
LXXero Moved On Join Date: May 2016 Location: Colorado Posts: 565	wow this is a really cool idea i've never heard of til now, so basically you guys are using re-circulation pumps meant for getting hot water to your sink/tub/shower in far-off rooms, and instead using it as basically a heat exchanger for the aquarium. Plus I bet you get instant hot water too, as someone mentioned. My house also has CPVC plumbing so it tends to take forever for the heat to get there, I bet this would solve both problems at once. Could probably tie into bathroom plumbing in a near by bath. Very tempting.

07/15/2016, 08:06 AM	#38
smb2415 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Wallingford, CT Posts: 738	+1 jduck. that is true. The most ideal way to plumb this is off the water heater. 2nd best would be to run a line from pump outlet through the sump, check valve, and back to water heater. Id recommend this type of solution for anyone with over 100g. __________________ Custom 7'x3'x42"tall 550g glass DT/~800g system. (GHL Mitras died) - looking for new solution. Hammerhead / DC10000 / MP60. Bean overflow C2C. Apex. Custom Heater.

07/15/2016, 08:34 AM	#39
EnderG60 Plumbing Engineer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 3,260	Honestly running this type of loop off a tank type water heater is simply a bad idea. If you run it off the existing lines using the cold for a hot return, as said, you will have issues and possibility of major problems if anything goes wrong. If you run the loop directly off the water heater it will work fine, until summer time when the water in the loop stagnates and starts growing legionella(its very common and deadly), then it starts up again in winter and bam your whole hot water supply is contaminated. If you have a tank type water heater, you will need a heat exchanger and two pumps. One to run house hot water to the heat exchanger and one to run the tank loop. In the end I wound up getting a small tankless gas water heater off ebay for about $180 and using that for a dedicated heating system for the tank and I could not be happier. Been running it for about 4-5 years now.

07/15/2016, 10:03 AM	#40
asdfghp Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: New England Posts: 89	I built a tube & shell heat exchanger and heat my 150 aquarium with a dedicated zone from my home's boiler. Works sweet! Bet I have the only oil-fired aquarium in New England! Using electricity to heat the tank is just too expensive. After the fact, I did have to write a "purge" routine to prevent stagnation of the aquarium loop during the summer months. It circulates 30 seconds every four hours (without calling for boiler heat). I bet this is an often overlooked scenario in these situations. Last edited by asdfghp; 07/15/2016 at 10:25 AM.

07/15/2016, 01:31 PM	#41
metzz71 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 44	In my system I use the Laing LHB08100092 which has a built in temp switch that turn off the pump at about 95 +/- degrees. Thus you should not have a problem with cooking your tank. As for the EnderG60's comment about summer time, valid point, but in my system I am in a basement and my pump continues to run all year long. If you have a controller like mine (www.mact.tech) you could set a minimum for the pump to kick on in the summer to avoid any stagnate water. I also installed about 25 ft of closely rolled line in my sump. It would be more efficient to use less and gap each coil for more surface area. __________________ 110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT) Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller

07/31/2016, 06:23 AM	#42
muttley000 MTS Sufferer! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,926	I have been using this for a couple years now. No problems, basement system so stagnation is not a worry. I went direct to hot water heater so I didn't warm up cool water lines. Has saved me tons! __________________ Next step on the system is adding A 90 gallon! Current Tank Info: 475 multitank system is now running! Several hundred gallons of additions planned!

03/03/2017, 01:22 AM	#43
Otiss Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 17	...

03/03/2017, 10:41 AM	#45
smb2415 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Wallingford, CT Posts: 738	2+ years and running strong no issues. __________________ Custom 7'x3'x42"tall 550g glass DT/~800g system. (GHL Mitras died) - looking for new solution. Hammerhead / DC10000 / MP60. Bean overflow C2C. Apex. Custom Heater.

03/03/2017, 11:24 AM	#46
metzz71 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 44	Same here. Works great and saves $$. Warm faucets to boot! (which makes the wife happy) __________________ 110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT) Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller

03/04/2017, 10:24 AM	#49
metzz71 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 44	Correct, gas is cheaper. I save nearly 40$ a month over electric heaters to keep my nearly 180g (total) at 77 degrees. __________________ 110g Display,90g acrylic converted to sump (20 ft from DT) Omega 130 skimmer, DC return pump Laing E1 autocirc for heating, MACT Web Controller