Possible New Cure for Ick?

[justletmein]

Originally posted by purpletanglvr

i look at it like this. what if he did this experimental treatment and it appeared to work and his fish went on there happy little way with no signs of anything until their death in years to come and he DIDNT share his idea with anyone. What if everytime someone found a new idea or way to do something and they didnt share it with anyone.

Yeah, I've been using a skimmer and DSB since the 1950's and didn't tell anyone. I'm glad someone else tried it too

[justletmein]

Originally posted by justletmein
Yeah, I've been using a skimmer and DSB since the 1950's and didn't tell anyone. I'm glad someone else tried it too

Oh, I don't have any scientific data to show it's successful so I'm not going to release my results yet

[ATJ]

Originally posted by purpletanglvr

my god. this thread sickens me. it goes from a guy trying something and it might possibly work, who knows. now it is turned into the Armageddon of fish life. he is trying this and wants to share the results.

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying here...

You read through the entire thread, you disagree with some or all of the comments in it and so you posted your disagreement.

How is that different from the posts of the people you are complaining about?

i look at it like this. what if he did this experimental treatment and it appeared to work and his fish went on there happy little way with no signs of anything until their death in years to come and he DIDNT share his idea with anyone. What if everytime someone found a new idea or way to do something and they didnt share it with anyone. true, not all ideas work, and true some people take the word of one and put it to use as if it is a law. it would be interesting to put this test in action with people that do this sort of thing for a living.

I think if you carefully read back through the threads, most people are not rejecting the original idea. They are not chastising the original poster for posting. They are merely recommending caution.

Sure, it would be great if ginger does work as a cure. Certainly, it should be further investigated. However, it is not a good idea to just drop existing (proven) methods just because this one might work.

If someone suggested that ginger was a possible new cure for HIV-AIDS and shared their results of how it cleared it up for them. If some other people then came along and said "Woo Hoo! I no longer have to wear a condom when I pick up girls in bars." And someone else says: "Outstanding! I can go back to sharing needles with the people I meet on the street." Would you sit back and say nothing?

i love this site for getting help and getting steered in the right direction time to time, but this is the stuff i cant stand about this site. everyone is an expert or an idiot, i see that all the time. if someone has an idea, 20 people jump them as if they are the experts. then we get into so many side topics the orginal topic is lost. just remember this, you so called experts are idiots time to time as well. im also sure if this method somehow starts being pressed out in a frozen food and sold in a store near you, you will buy it..... !!!! just my opinion, but i am wrong, i know.

Again... if you are reading a thread and you see something with which you disagree, won't you make some kind of comment expressing your opinion? Or would you hold your tongue for fear of being accused of jumping on them as if you were an expert?

[purpletanglvr]

this is the part where i cant decide if i would comment or not...if i disagree, i should comment because i want it to be known that i disagree. but, what if im wrong?? hense the delima. but i see it on the flip side, if no one commented, we wouldnt have a forum would we......... why is the sky blue?? why are we here?? i see most of your points ATJ and i see alot of others as well. point ive learned, there is no right answer

[melev]

I'm still reading this thread, and support the idea of searching for new methods that work.

Several times in this thread I've read the comment that others were worried everyone would "jump on this cure" acting like it "is" the cure.

Because of the way humans are, I bet some would state it as a cure. But most will not. They'll say "I read a thread about a guy trying Ginger.... you might try that and see if it works" which implies they don't have any idea, but it could be worth pursuing. If it turns out to be a pollutant and causes problems in their tanks, they'll be sure to post those results as well as a warning to others.

Bottom line is this. There is a proven method. It works. Pulling the fish out and putting them in quarantine for 6 weeks at hyposalinity.

And there is always the possibility something else will work someday, whenever we figure it out.

[porky]

"Bottom line is this. There is a proven method. It works. Pulling the fish out and putting them in quarantine for 6 weeks at hyposalinity."
Only problem is that in an large tank that is established with lots of rock work it can be next to impossible to catch one of these suckers. I had a fish that I just had to watch waste away with fin rot because I couldn't catch him. The more I tried the more distrusting it became and it got to the point where the fish would be spooked when I just approached the tank. It was sooo frustrating to just watch the fella waste away because I couldnt catch him
We really need an "in tank" method to treat ich and other parasites.
Pesonally I'm a big believer in garlic, I have seen it's results first hand on a Purple Tang that couldnt kick ich until I started adding garlic. The ich went away I stopped adding garlic and he has been ich free since

[Thales]

Originally posted by melev
Several times in this thread I've read the comment that others were worried everyone would "jump on this cure" acting like it "is" the cure.

Because of the way humans are, I bet some would state it as a cure. But most will not. They'll say "I read a thread about a guy trying Ginger.... you might try that and see if it works" which implies they don't have any idea, but it could be worth pursuing. If it turns out to be a pollutant and causes problems in their tanks, they'll be sure to post those results as well as a warning to others.

I hear what you are saying, however I think human nature is the reverse of what you discribe. If you browse some of the other boards the idea that ginger cures ich has already spread. In those threads, when someone points out that it has not been shown to cure ich, that person gets jumped on as being closed minded. People want to believe in easy fixes.

[ATJ]

Originally posted by porky
Only problem is that in an large tank that is established with lots of rock work it can be next to impossible to catch one of these suckers. I had a fish that I just had to watch waste away with fin rot because I couldn't catch him. The more I tried the more distrusting it became and it got to the point where the fish would be spooked when I just approached the tank. It was sooo frustrating to just watch the fella waste away because I couldnt catch him
We really need an "in tank" method to treat ich and other parasites.

If people quarantined all their new fish for 6 weeks before adding them to the main tank, "Ich" outbreaks a large tank would be very, very rare. If all new fish were treated with hyposalinity for 3-4 weeks before being added to the new tank and people refused to buy invertebrates and live rock from tanks including fish, "Ich" outbreaks in the main tank would be nearly impossible.

[ATJ]

Originally posted by melev
And there is always the possibility something else will work someday, whenever we figure it out.

I'm not sure that we need to be the ones to figure it out. "Ich" is a major problem in macroculture facilities and there are commercial incentives to find methods of control. The Japanese seem to be at the forefront of research and while I wouldn't bet the farm on these ideas yet, there has been some good work done in the last few years by a couple of different groups of authors.

Hirazawa et al have found that caprylic acid (a medium-chain fatty acid) administered oraly had an antiparasitic effect on C. irritans. It wasn't a cure and fish still died, but the caprylic acid did reduce the number of throphonts found on the fish.

Kakuta et al have reported improvements in resistance to C. irritans in fish fed with bovine lactoferrin. Unfortunately, both of their papers are in Japanese and I can only rely on their citing in English papers.

[saltycurofaseadog]

wow! It's been a while since I've read this post. A lot of critics...(thats good... ),and a lot of believers...(thats good... ). But come on people...don't jump on somebody with both feet when something new is being tried.After all, every tank is an experiment of nature. People are constantly looking for ways to make an aquarium as healthy and natural as possible. Just 15 or 20 years ago we were using undergravel filters in our systems. When people try new things or experiment, breakthroughs very often occur. Thank you. stepping off the soapbox.....

[Thales]

I dropped crushed up chewable vitamin c tablets in my tank and my ich went away.

[saltycurofaseadog]

i dropped crushed up chewable vitamin c tablets in my tank and my ich went away.

Really? or just tryin to stir things up a bit... Vitamin c will keep the fish from getting scurvy as well so two cures in one....

[Thales]

Not just ich and scurvy! My sps have better growth, my flatworms went away and my lights got brighter.

[Steven Pro]

Originally posted by Lefty
I dropped crushed up chewable vitamin c tablets in my tank and my ich went away.

Have you ever looked at the active ingredients listed on a box of AB's Exodin (an alledged cure for Velvet/Amyloodinium)? Ascorbic acid aka vitamin C

[swissgaurd]

cratylus.
good for you
glad to see someone sharing that they found something.
thats what makes this hobby so interesting.

Ive been looking for a homemade food recipe for a long time.
would be an honour to recieve that recipe.

thanks

vic

[magnum420]

Lefty...

Vitamin C might have gotten rid of your flatworms? Even if it wasnt that, it sounds like it has other benifits as well... how did you prepare the vitamin C? Any particular brand of chewable Vit. C? Anyone else have good results with vitamin C?

Thanks
MAg

[saltycurofaseadog]

lefty's pulling your leg...ignore

[Thales]

Dont ignore.
Take it as an object lesson that everything anyone tries is not necessarily something to give weight to.

And I wouldn't be suprised if, from the one post above, vitamin c treatment makes the rounds as something to try for ich.

[saltycurofaseadog]

youve got issues

[Thales]

Duh. And so do you, bringing up a dead thread to get up on your soapbox and all.

[magnum420]

sorry I'm so gullable... but the vitamin supp. I use is high in vitC so I figured maybe there was something to that. next time I'll know not to trust any of you guys...

Thanks... well... not really...
MAg

[Steven Pro]

Originally posted by Lefty
Dont ignore.
Take it as an object lesson that everything anyone tries is not necessarily something to give weight to.

And I wouldn't be suprised if, from the one post above, vitamin c treatment makes the rounds as something to try for ich.

I just want to be clear, I said an alledged cure. I have no idea if it works.

[Thales]

Originally posted by magnum420
sorry I'm so gullable... but the vitamin supp. I use is high in vitC so I figured maybe there was something to that. next time I'll know not to trust any of you guys...

Thanks... well... not really...
MAg

Sorry you feel bad. That wasn't really my intention. I thought it was clear from my post, and the discussion of scurvy, that I was using ironic satrie.

Lots of 'cures' and 'suppliments' seem like they could work. This whole thread has been about a 'cure' for ich that seems to make some sense. But everything could be spun to seem like it makes sense. All it takes is one 'supporting' opinion, and the band wagon is off and running.

Vitamin c made the rounds several years ago as a 'miracle' additive, even though is really doesn't seem to help - hence your suppliment.
'It happened after, therefore was caused by' is a really powerful, but incorrect, chain of reasoning.

Like I said earlier, the idea that changing a light could rid your tank of ich has exactly the same level of supportive evidence as ginger. Yet for some reason, most would simply dismiss the idea that a change in lighting would cure ich - even though it would be easy to spin a decent sounding explanition.

And in a very large way, you shouldn't trust anyone who posts on these boards. We don't know who we are, and eventhough we are all trying to help each other, there is lots of weird information out there. If I want to check something out I search at least two of the online boards to see if there is some agreement.

There is no agreement anywhere that ginger would do anything. Yet people are still claiming that it works.

[magnum420]

Dont worry about it... my last post was more in a joking manner anyway. I alway take what I hear online with a grain of salt. I also wrote that before my morning coffee.

MAg

[Thales]