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Old 07/17/2019, 09:14 PM   #1
RobbyG
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Echotech Return Pump Yay or Nay?

I am thinking of buying an Echotech pump to replace my sequence dart.
I have had two Darts for the last 15 years, one is a backup. In the course of that time I have had to replace the bearing twice on each of them. Roughly five years before the bearings start to go bad.

My Pump is not in the water and I do not want to put a pump in the water, so if I buy an Echotech it would not be submerged for cooling. I have read a lot of back and forth on this and people saying the flow rate is substantially less than advertised. Anyone have any recommendations, I am very happy with the MP40 that is why i am thinking Echotech but I also do not want to spend nearly $500 on a pump and have it die within a year or two.

Rob


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Old 07/17/2019, 10:07 PM   #2
ohashimz
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I personally would spend an extra 200 and get a red dragon 50 watt or 80 watt depend on your flow rate requirments.


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Old 07/18/2019, 09:07 PM   #3
RobbyG
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Originally Posted by ohashimz View Post
I personally would spend an extra 200 and get a red dragon 50 watt or 80 watt depend on your flow rate requirments.
Thanks, but I don't see much info on this pump. Do you or anybody else have one?

Thanks
Rob


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Current Tank Info: Insanely Automated Low Power Consumption 90 Gal Oceanic Bow System/Aquatronica Touch Controller/AQ Dosing Pump/AQT LEDS/AQ SMS/Seq Dart Pump/ASM G3/Ozotech Ozonizer/Koralin 1502/Chiller/Typhoon3 Ro/S.Squirt /Phos React/Rmt DSB
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Old 07/18/2019, 09:31 PM   #4
ohashimz
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Originally Posted by RobbyG View Post
Thanks, but I don't see much info on this pump. Do you or anybody else have one?



Thanks

Rob
Royal execlusive red dragon rd3.
Multiple supplier and distributors in USA carry it...


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Old 07/19/2019, 12:41 AM   #5
paal
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My M1 return has been running flawlessly since I started my tank over 3 years ago. I have not cleaned it or taken it out of the sump a single time.
It is not dead silent, but still wife-approved in a living room tank.

The red dragon suggestions above are good as well though (though a bit pricier) I have a RD speedy pump on my bubble king double cone 180 skimmer. I love it.
The controller box for the pump died on me recently though (after about 3 years) but Royal Exclusiv fixed it for a fair price.

To be honest, I am not really sure what I would buy if I were to upgrade to a bigger tank today.



Last edited by paal; 07/19/2019 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 07/19/2019, 10:39 AM   #6
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I would go with the ecotech ...I have the m1 return and the s1 for skimmer ....When I plumbed them in my wife was speechless...The only thing she could ask was " Are the pumps on/running ?" And when I said yes she couldn't believe it so I had to open under cabinet to show her the water flow

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Old 07/19/2019, 11:48 AM   #7
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The Red dragon seems like a great pump but there is not that much in way of personal accounts of reliability on the web and the fitting sizes sound like a nightmare.

I am thinking of buying the L2 but I am a bit worried about how it deals with heat and not being submerged. My pump and sump etc. are all located on the outside of the house in a built up housing just behind where the Tank is located in the house. Anyone using an L1 that is not submerged, I am wondering about heat.

Thanks
Rob


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Current Tank Info: Insanely Automated Low Power Consumption 90 Gal Oceanic Bow System/Aquatronica Touch Controller/AQ Dosing Pump/AQT LEDS/AQ SMS/Seq Dart Pump/ASM G3/Ozotech Ozonizer/Koralin 1502/Chiller/Typhoon3 Ro/S.Squirt /Phos React/Rmt DSB
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Old 07/19/2019, 12:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyG View Post
The Red dragon seems like a great pump but there is not that much in way of personal accounts of reliability on the web and the fitting sizes sound like a nightmare.

I am thinking of buying the L2 but I am a bit worried about how it deals with heat and not being submerged. My pump and sump etc. are all located on the outside of the house in a built up housing just behind where the Tank is located in the house. Anyone using an L1 that is not submerged, I am wondering about heat.

Thanks
Rob
The US pumps come with built in union couplers with both metric and US inch size female slip fittings in the box standard. So plumbing couldn’t be any easier. Even the ones from Europe can include inch size fittings if you request them but as I said, all US distributed RD3’s include standard US sized SCH80 PVC fittings.

I think that most if not all Royal Exclusiv pump users would concur that they are great pumps and built like tanks. The impellers are the heaviest on the market and include titanium coated magnets. The motors alone weigh more than double that of any comparable pump. Like I said, they are built like tanks. The controller is built into a large heavy aluminum enclosure and the RD3’s transfer virtually no heat to the water.

I bought my two RD3 230s when they were first released 4 years ago and they haven’t skipped a beat. Nor has the RD3 50 that runs my Supermarin 250 which I’ve had for about 5 years now. All of which I bought at retail price long before my association with Royal Exclusiv. And despite my being biased due to my affiliation, I am a hobbyist first and foremost and I’d do it all over again in a heart beat as I truly love my pumps. And trust me, with what I have invested in live stock in my tank, I could run any pump I want and would only run what I feel offers great reliability.


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Old 07/19/2019, 01:14 PM   #9
ohashimz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyG View Post
The Red dragon seems like a great pump but there is not that much in way of personal accounts of reliability on the web and the fitting sizes sound like a nightmare.

I am thinking of buying the L2 but I am a bit worried about how it deals with heat and not being submerged. My pump and sump etc. are all located on the outside of the house in a built up housing just behind where the Tank is located in the house. Anyone using an L1 that is not submerged, I am wondering about heat.

Thanks
Rob
It's up to you ofcourse. Red dragons are some of the best pumps in the market world wide not only here..they are one of the oldest pumps companies out there and build almost everything on house..


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Old 07/19/2019, 01:20 PM   #10
ohashimz
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The US pumps come with built in union couplers with both metric and US inch size female slip fittings in the box standard. So plumbing couldnít be any easier. Even the ones from Europe can include inch size fittings if you request them but as I said, all US distributed RD3ís include standard US sized SCH80 PVC fittings.

I think that most if not all Royal Exclusiv pump users would concur that they are great pumps and built like tanks. The impellers are the heaviest on the market and include titanium coated magnets. The motors alone weigh more than double that of any comparable pump. Like I said, they are built like tanks. The controller is built into a large heavy aluminum enclosure and the RD3ís transfer virtually no heat to the water.

I bought my two RD3 230s when they were first released 4 years ago and they havenít skipped a beat. Nor has the RD3 50 that runs my Supermarin 250 which Iíve had for about 5 years now. All of which I bought at retail price long before my association with Royal Exclusiv. And despite my being biased due to my affiliation, I am a hobbyist first and foremost and Iíd do it all over again in a heart beat as I truly love my pumps. And trust me, with what I have invested in live stock in my tank, I could run any pump I want and would only run what I feel offers great reliability.
+1 to all.
I will also add that most dc pumps in the market are sourced core parts from china wrapped with plastic and logo of the vendor.
Most come from Hipool motors (chinese manufacturer) and couple similar suppliers.
Just go to hipool site and take an look at their dc pump and see the similarities. You can even see their customers list. You will be suprised..
While abyzz and red dragon design and build the major and core parts that goes in to their pumps.



Last edited by ohashimz; 07/19/2019 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 07/21/2019, 12:32 PM   #11
RobbyG
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+1 to all.
I will also add that most dc pumps in the market are sourced core parts from china wrapped with plastic and logo of the vendor.
Most come from Hipool motors (chinese manufacturer) and couple similar suppliers.
Just go to hipool site and take an look at their dc pump and see the similarities. You can even see their customers list. You will be suprised..
While abyzz and red dragon design and build the major and core parts that goes in to their pumps.
Interesting info. I really do like the abyzz pump but wow the price on them seems to target millionaires The Red Dragon pump looks great but the controller seems a bit out dated and I am not sure what I can do with it short of just varying the speed manually. I like the Ecotech because of the software/programming versatility but am not all that enthusiastic about some of the feedback I have seen on the pump itself. You ever feel so confused that you start thinking of just going back to the evil you know? Right now I am feeling like buying a Reeflow dart and calling it a day. At least with that I have two older ones as backup. If I buy a Red Dragon or Ecotech I would soon have to buy a second one as a spare. No way am I going with just one pump. it seems every time a pump gives problems its at 1am. The last time a bearing went the pump let out a loud mind numbing squealing sound. The wife shot out of bed and told me to either stop the sound now or face certain death

Luckily I can just pull the bolts and swap over the impeller cover without messing with the pluming. That one of the great advantages of having a spare of the same model pump.


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Current Tank Info: Insanely Automated Low Power Consumption 90 Gal Oceanic Bow System/Aquatronica Touch Controller/AQ Dosing Pump/AQT LEDS/AQ SMS/Seq Dart Pump/ASM G3/Ozotech Ozonizer/Koralin 1502/Chiller/Typhoon3 Ro/S.Squirt /Phos React/Rmt DSB
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Old 07/21/2019, 12:42 PM   #12
ohashimz
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Originally Posted by RobbyG View Post
Interesting info. I really do like the abyzz pump but wow the price on them seems to target millionaires 2: The Red Dragon pump looks great but the controller seems a bit out dated and I am not sure what I can do with it short of just varying the speed manually. I like the Ecotech because of the software/programming versatility but am not all that enthusiastic about some of the feedback I have seen on the pump itself. You ever feel so confused that you start thinking of just going back to the evil you know? Right now I am feeling like buying a Reeflow dart and calling it a day. At least with that I have two older ones as backup. If I buy a Red Dragon or Ecotech I would soon have to buy a second one as a spare. No way am I going with just one pump. it seems every time a pump gives problems its at 1am. The last time a bearing went the pump let out a loud mind numbing squealing sound. The wife shot out of bed and told me to either stop the sound now or face certain death



Luckily I can just pull the bolts and swap over the impeller cover without messing with the pluming. That one of the great advantages of having a spare of the same model pump.
Ha ha ha. Yup I felt like that when I first went in to dc pumps..ac pumps are great and earlier dc pumps just couldn't match..
With red dragon thu story is diffrent, thate why they did not release their dc pump until they had a good one, they still do great ac pumps.
I would not think I need a spare with red dragon but ofcourse everything can break eventually and with the right condition..so I feel your pain ha ha


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Old 07/21/2019, 05:27 PM   #13
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Love my Vectra Pumps. Have an L1 and a S2. Both Silent.


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Old 07/21/2019, 06:27 PM   #14
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I would get 2 cheap ones and just have a backup ready. They usually last for years.


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Old 07/21/2019, 07:24 PM   #15
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Love my Vectra Pumps. Have an L1 and a S2. Both Silent.
Is your L1 in the sump or dry? My worry is the thing will overheat if left dry.
A lot of people say they run very hot.


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Current Tank Info: Insanely Automated Low Power Consumption 90 Gal Oceanic Bow System/Aquatronica Touch Controller/AQ Dosing Pump/AQT LEDS/AQ SMS/Seq Dart Pump/ASM G3/Ozotech Ozonizer/Koralin 1502/Chiller/Typhoon3 Ro/S.Squirt /Phos React/Rmt DSB
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Old 07/22/2019, 07:03 AM   #16
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love my darts... they just simply work and that is priceless.

corey


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Old 07/22/2019, 09:12 AM   #17
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I run a M2 on my 180 at about 70% and it is mounted externally. Runs very cool.


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Old 07/22/2019, 10:57 AM   #18
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Is your L1 in the sump or dry? My worry is the thing will overheat if left dry.
A lot of people say they run very hot.
Mine is submerged but I wouldn't worry about it being external. Ecotech has a great service department so if there is an issue I'm sure they would take care of you. I'd get the L2 and not look back.

It won't flow as much as a dart. You'll want to minimize any flow restrictions you can. What exactly are you using it on? The return for the 90gal? A dart is a lot of pump for that!


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Old 07/22/2019, 01:00 PM   #19
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Just get an Iwaki pump. It was designed to be used as a chemical pump.

Saltwater is nothing for that pump. it will last 10-20 years.


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Old 07/22/2019, 01:21 PM   #20
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I love my Vectra S1s, the two of them have worked well for the last 2 years.


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Old 07/23/2019, 12:05 PM   #21
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Mine is submerged but I wouldn't worry about it being external. Ecotech has a great service department so if there is an issue I'm sure they would take care of you. I'd get the L2 and not look back.

It won't flow as much as a dart. You'll want to minimize any flow restrictions you can. What exactly are you using it on? The return for the 90gal? A dart is a lot of pump for that!
Yeah I have to cut about 30% of the Darts flow, it is not working nearly as fast because the electricity here is 115V 50HZ. The 50HZ really slows down the pump by 20% so I figure the Ecotech L2 would work fine since a DC pump should not be effected by the line voltage frequency.

It's kind of interesting that no one runs an Ecotech dry! I have not seen one person say they are running one dry, that makes me very worried that it is probably not a good idea to run one dry.


73s
Rob


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Current Tank Info: Insanely Automated Low Power Consumption 90 Gal Oceanic Bow System/Aquatronica Touch Controller/AQ Dosing Pump/AQT LEDS/AQ SMS/Seq Dart Pump/ASM G3/Ozotech Ozonizer/Koralin 1502/Chiller/Typhoon3 Ro/S.Squirt /Phos React/Rmt DSB
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Old 07/23/2019, 12:06 PM   #22
RobbyG
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Just get an Iwaki pump. It was designed to be used as a chemical pump.

Saltwater is nothing for that pump. it will last 10-20 years.
I am trying to keep the power consumption of the whole system very low. If power was not an issue I would most certainly be using an Iwaki.


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The Optimist says the glass is half full, the Pessimist says itís half empty, an engineer only see's a glass thatís twice as big as it needs to be!

Current Tank Info: Insanely Automated Low Power Consumption 90 Gal Oceanic Bow System/Aquatronica Touch Controller/AQ Dosing Pump/AQT LEDS/AQ SMS/Seq Dart Pump/ASM G3/Ozotech Ozonizer/Koralin 1502/Chiller/Typhoon3 Ro/S.Squirt /Phos React/Rmt DSB
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Old 07/23/2019, 12:40 PM   #23
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I am trying to keep the power consumption of the whole system very low. If power was not an issue I would most certainly be using an Iwaki.
The problem is a pump that is low power have a very tight tolerance.
That tolerance makes the pump not last as long.

Two things you could do with the Iwaki pump.

1) Oversize it just a notch and put a valve on the output. Using a watt meter, close the valve till you get the lowest watts. What you are doing its matching the pump curve with your system pipes. When you do that, the pump uses less power.

2) Buy a 3 phase Iwaki pump and use a VFD. That what I have done with my skimmer and I am running very low watts compare to a normal skimmer pump.

If you want more information just tell me, and I post what I have done.
This setup will beat any DC pump out there even with the dragon pumps.
0-100% Speed with high-pressure output, the dragon pumps cannot even touch the pressure. It is also cheaper than those pumps.


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Old 07/24/2019, 01:46 AM   #24
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I have a Varios pump. It works great and has no noise.


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Old 07/24/2019, 02:53 AM   #25
tkeracer619
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It's kind of interesting that no one runs an Ecotech dry! I have not seen one person say they are running one dry, that makes me very worried that it is probably not a good idea to run one dry.


73s
Rob
I needed the heat or I would have gone external


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