Reef Central Online Community
Live Aquaria

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Marine Fish Forums > Anemones & Clownfish
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 04/28/2015, 08:53 AM   #76
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
Sad update. The clowns died. They looked terribly stressed and uncomfortable last night so I did a 50% water change to remove a large chunk of the medication. Woke up this morning and both were dead. If I could go back in time I probably would have just kept them in Hikari medication, not do a fresh water dip and not do a tank transfer. I think that all those things really stressed them out.



Last edited by CoralsAddiction; 04/28/2015 at 09:20 AM.
CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 09:13 AM   #77
joshky
Acros & Wrasses
 
joshky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central KY
Posts: 2,546
Tough luck man, sorry for your loss.


__________________
Josh

My 80g: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2677031
joshky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 09:29 AM   #78
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
Thanks. I wish it had worked out. It was truly a beautiful pair of clowns. I wish I could figure out why almost every single clown that comes from Solomon ends up with brooklynella…no matter what vendor I go through. I have seen true percs and Oceallris from other regions but they seem to live.


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 10:41 AM   #79
DasCamel
Registered Member
 
DasCamel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Kenmore, WA
Posts: 1,542
I've started prophylactic 30 min dip of all incoming clowns before they hit the main QT if they are strong enough. Seems like Brook is far too common in the industry now.

Sorry for the loss, they were gorgeous fish.


__________________
375g DT 125g sump acrylic, Mixed SPS/LPS tank with anemones and fish.

Current Tank Info: 375g Build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2608197
DasCamel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 12:43 PM   #80
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 8,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoralsAddiction View Post
Thanks. I wish it had worked out. It was truly a beautiful pair of clowns. I wish I could figure out why almost every single clown that comes from Solomon ends up with brooklynella…no matter what vendor I go through. I have seen true percs and Oceallris from other regions but they seem to live.
Sorry for your loss.
Fish from the Solomons spend 40h or more in the bag - that weakens them sufficiently. It is also likely that latent brooklynella infections are common among fish from that region or that their holding facilities are insufficient promote parasites to spread.

Though there may be other issues with them besides brook. Before I saved several of them with antibiotics.

Did they still had white patches or where they just breathing heavily?


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 12:58 PM   #81
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post

Did they still had white patches or where they just breathing heavily?
They had smaller white spots but not as bad as my previous Solomon clowns that had brooklynella. Stress was the leading cause of loss this time around. The clowns stopped eating yesterday and I got really worried thinking they were on the way to a serious outbreak. So I found regular 37% formalin, did a freshwater dip (RO/DI, temp adjusted) and put them in a sterile tank. All the right steps one would think but may be wrong timing.


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 01:02 PM   #82
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
I have a photo of them dead but if I posted it here everyone would get really sad. It's actually pretty tough to look at it for me too.


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 01:08 PM   #83
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 8,947
Not sure if it was Brooklynella that killed them. I treated a clown at a store here that was covered with brook and after one single formalin dip and relocation into a clean tank it recovered.

I got a normal percula pair from the Solomons on Saturday and so far they didn't get any white patches but the female started breathing a bit heavy last night.
They had been for a week at the dealer and looked OK there.
I did a formalin dip before putting them into the QT.
I will do another dip later today and then think about giving them also antibiotics.
I'm not sure this is just brook that we are dealing with on Solomon percula.


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 01:14 PM   #84
ExpertMarine
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: So Cal.
Posts: 76
I'm really sorry to hear that. I know how you feel...
Looking back at it it does look like too many things were done too soon...
Thanks for posting it publicly as others can learn from this...
We should chat on the phone about techniques sometime...


ExpertMarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 01:16 PM   #85
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
where they just breathing heavily?
Definitely breathing heavy and swimming on top level of the tank. It's like they were trying to get out of the tank. That's why I did a large water change but it didn't help.


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 01:16 PM   #86
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 8,947
What do you think was done too soon?


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 01:19 PM   #87
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpertMarine View Post
I'm really sorry to hear that. I know how you feel...
Looking back at it it does look like too many things were done too soon...
Thanks for posting it publicly as others can learn from this...
We should chat on the phone about techniques sometime...
Thanks. Based on my previous experiences I knew it could go wrong but I still decided to do this on the forum because the majority of hobbyists perceive clowns to be an "easy" fish when in reality they can be tough when newly imported or placed with other sick fish at whole sellers, fish stores, etc. if there's one big lesson to be learned it is the value of quarantine tanks because something like this could have easily wiped out a tank with other fish.


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 01:41 PM   #88
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 8,947
Clownfish, especially percula and ocellaris, are very fragile fish when freshly imported. But after acclimated they can be very hardy.


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 01:57 PM   #89
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
But after acclimated they can be very hardy.
Agree. Once established they can tolerate a wide variety of swings like nitrates, temperature change, etc. However, getting the wild caught clowns to that point can be a challenge. There is one LFS that is one of the only few left that still buys wild caught Ocellaris. I would say 25% of their new wild ocellaris clowns come down with brook at the store but the rest do fine. As a matter of fact I am considering getting a pair of wild Ocellaris clowns from them. Love the Solomon true percs but don't know if I am ready to deal with them after having just lost the onyx pair.


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 02:46 PM   #90
DasCamel
Registered Member
 
DasCamel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Kenmore, WA
Posts: 1,542
I can say that all the fish in the DT now, tough as nails. Want to say my Tang is even tougher than my clown.


__________________
375g DT 125g sump acrylic, Mixed SPS/LPS tank with anemones and fish.

Current Tank Info: 375g Build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2608197
DasCamel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/28/2015, 05:10 PM   #91
Jrsdaddy
Moved On
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 273
Sucks man, they where a beautiful pair. Sorry for your loss.


Jrsdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/29/2015, 02:07 AM   #92
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
Saw this black true perc at LFS. Really cute and nice but missing the third white bar by his tail.



CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/29/2015, 03:04 AM   #93
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 8,947
Looks pretty good. Wild?

I got a wild pair of the normal Solomon percula last Saturday. They had been at the store for a week and were looking ok. I only took them because the female is pretty big and should be ready for breeding. Her "original" mate looked pretty bad and she was biting him so I took the little guy in the next compartment instead because he looked much better.
They got the mandatory formalin dip and then went into the QT:



The female was eating like a pig but started breathing a bit heavy Monday night so I gave a dose CP to the tank. This morning the breathing issue was better and she was going after live tigger pods. This afternoon she was still going after food but didn't eat it. I suspect it's the effect of the CP.
I will clean the tank tomorrow. She also has something hanging under her cheek which may or may not be flukes. I will examine that tomorrow when I have them out during the tank transfer/cleaning.

The good news is that I've seen so far no signs of brook.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN1363 (2).jpg (55.9 KB, 899 views)
__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/29/2015, 07:30 AM   #94
Dkuhlmann
Registered Member
 
Dkuhlmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 8,823
I'm sorry to hear of your loss


__________________
Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS.

Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300
Dkuhlmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/29/2015, 08:50 AM   #95
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
Thanks for your sympathy.


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/29/2015, 08:53 AM   #96
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
Looks pretty good. Wild?

I got a wild pair of the normal Solomon percula last Saturday.





The good news is that I've seen so far no signs of brook.
Nice pair of clowns and look healthy.
I didn't ask if the black perc was wild or TR, but it's paired up with a smaller male that has similar colors to your new pair.


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/29/2015, 08:55 AM   #97
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
 
SNAKEMANVET's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: TRENTON Tn
Posts: 4,475
Sorry for your loss,they were really a nice pair.


SNAKEMANVET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/29/2015, 01:00 PM   #98
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 8,947
I feel the loss was rather medication related than directly caused by disease, especially since the one that didn't show symptoms perished at the same time with the one who showed symptoms of brook.
Next time I would advise against dosing formalin in the tank. Dips and transfers to a clean tank should be sufficient. In fact in most cases one correctly done formalin dip may be enough - at least for the beginning until they regain strength to go through a full TTM & Dip regime.
If you feel you need to treat against velvet (or do more against brook) I would rather use CP but do full water changes every 3 days (or sooner if needed).
I would also recommend to put some "decoration" into the tank. At a minimum one or two ceramic flowerpots.
Another thing I always have, even in an QT/HT, is a small HOB or in tank bio filter to prevent ammonia or nitrite spikes.

BTW: This isn't to criticize but to pass on my (costly learned) experience to help with your next wild clowns.


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...

Last edited by ThRoewer; 04/29/2015 at 01:03 PM. Reason: forgot something
ThRoewer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04/29/2015, 05:33 PM   #99
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
I feel the loss was rather medication related than directly caused by disease, especially since the one that didn't show symptoms perished at the same time with the one who showed symptoms of brook.
Next time I would advise against dosing formalin in the tank.

BTW: This isn't to criticize but to pass on my (costly learned) experience to help with your next wild clowns.
Thanks. I thought running it full time would prevent re-infection. On a good note I purchased wild caught true perculas from Solomon and one of them (male) has a black dorsal fin. It's amazing how nicely wild clowns color up. The male is barely over an inch big and already has black markings on top. The female has black but not as much. These are established clowns. Here are some pics.
Male:

Female:



CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/29/2015, 05:35 PM   #100
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,929
I might try another wild pair of Onyx in the near future.


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:16 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.