Disease in QT Tank everything died, what to do now

afm32607 · 07/12/2019, 08:48 AM

TL;DR I think I have Uronema Marinum in my QT tank, all the fish are dead. What do I do? I am worried (without proof) it will have spread to my coral QT tank located a few feet away. What do I do there?

A bit about my QT. The QT has a heater, skimmer, and powerfilter, 20 gallons of water and maybe 30 lbs of spare live rock I had lying around after I broke down an old reef tank. This rock stayed wet in another QT tank.

So, I recently bought 5 chromis. All five died within a week, I chalked it up to either ammonia poisoning (because I over loaded the 20 gallon tank or the Live rock wasn't as good as I thought) or the shipping stress (as there was a significant delay in getting them into the tank thanks to UPS).

About two weeks after those deaths (two to three weeks from initial addition of the five above) I bought four more (one died in transit leaving me with three). Within ten days of those being purchased all three were dead.

After these three died, I ruled out shipping stress and ammonia poisoning. However, the first two to die had odd 'burn' marks on their sides (similar to many in the first batch). Originally, I assumed the burn marks to be side effects of ammonia poisoning from the extended stay in the shipping bags or my less than stellar live rock (as a note I think the rock is perfect, covered in coraline, never dried out etc). In looking into my situation further, the burn marks look like photos of Uronema infections, the symptoms follow those infections.

Ideally, I would like to do whatever is needed to ensure I clear out the infection while hopefully preserving the long term usefulness of the rock in the tank (i.e. avoid permanently ruining its use in a reef tank/inverts). I also have two small ones so I would prefer not to have another bucket of bleach outside or in the garage for them to try and drink...

So what are my options?

Clean everything and start over?
I am not in love with the live rock, but I would prefer not to bleach it or the tank or my equipment. Would RO/DI work? i.e. empty the Qt tank and fill with clean RO water and then wait a week or two before putting in more salt water?

Antibiotics/medication?
Saw middling results with the use of medications other than copper. Any suggestions?

Toss everything in QT tank that isn't plastic and start over?

I have a second related issue. A few feet from this fish QT I have a reef QT for coral. Obviously, this live rock is very important to me. Any thoughts on how to ensure I don't have uronema in this tank as well? I am pretty good about keeping clean hands in each tank, but when you're in a hurry.....Also, this tank has snails and crabs in it currently....

HumbleFish · 07/12/2019, 09:00 AM

If you suspect Uronema, I would break everything down, sterilize with chlorine and reset it back up. Technically dosing metronidazole a few times should eliminate Uronema from the QT, but I would only trust that if you could get metro that was close to pharmaceutical grade (99% pure). Seachem Metroplex is only 70% active, and sometimes takes 10-14 days of dosing every 48 hours to completely clear a fish of uronema.

HumbleFish · 07/12/2019, 09:10 AM

You could also dose 100ppm chlorine as per this guide:https://dec.vermont.gov/sites/dec/fi...sinfection.pdf

Circulate well throughout the system for 48 hours. After 48 hours you can use Sodium Thiosulfate to neutralize the chlorine in the water. Most pool places sell a product called Chlor Out which contains sodium thiosulfate and is safe to use.

You can use this website to determine how much sodium thiosulfate to dose: https://www.edspumps.com/water-treat...lorination.pdf

After you are all finished, your alkalinity might need to be raised. If so, use baking soda as per this calculator: http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

afm32607 · 07/12/2019, 09:31 AM

I will try the metronidazole on my reef QT i think, as there I do not want to completely break down that tank. And I guess I will have little choice but to bleach the fish QT and just leave it running for a couple days with bleach in it if swapping out the water with RO wont work.

afm32607 · 07/12/2019, 09:32 AM

Thank you for the advice will let everyone know the results (maybe try and buy a single healthy Chromis afterwards)

Uncle99 · 07/13/2019, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afm32607

Thank you for the advice will let everyone know the results (maybe try and buy a single healthy Chromis afterwards)

The Chromis is your problem, high rate for that diease for chromis.
I'd try something different, less diease prone and hardy.

ThRoewer · 07/15/2019, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

If you suspect Uronema, I would break everything down, sterilize with chlorine and reset it back up. ...

I kind of do it the other way around if I have all fish die in QT without knowing what killed them: pour bleach into the tank to make sure everything is sterile. Then I break down the tank, sterilize the equipment again and clean everything to be ready for the next load.
I just don't want to take any risk that somehow something gets into my DTs.

BTW, I had that recently a lot that fish died under suspicious circumstances.
And every single tuxedo damsel I bought from LA or BZ this year died of something that looked like Uronema. So it seems it is currently going around.

monkeysee1 · 07/15/2019, 07:17 AM

"And every single tuxedo damsel I bought from LA or BZ this year died of something that looked like Uronema. So it seems it is currently going around. "

___________

Hi!
Just picking your brain - with a related question:
do Live Aquaria and Blue Zoo keep their captive bred fish separate from the wild caught fish? And do they keep their corals and inverts in separate tanks away from their fish also?
I've ordered inverts from BOTH this year with NO issues with spreading any disease. Shrimp, cocoa worms, snails, urchins and hermits are doing well and my fish are thriving!
Would like to order a captive bred dotty back, but I want the scoop from you, because I know they're going to say "why of course we keep them separate and quarantine them"

ThRoewer · 07/15/2019, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeysee1

Hi!
Just picking your brain - with a related question:
do Live Aquaria and Blue Zoo keep their captive bred fish separate from the wild caught fish? And do they keep their corals and inverts in separate tanks away from their fish also?
I've ordered inverts from BOTH this year with NO issues with spreading any disease. Shrimp, cocoa worms, snails, urchins and hermits are doing well and my fish are thriving!
Would like to order a captive bred dotty back, but I want the scoop from you, because I know they're going to say "why of course we keep them separate and quarantine them"

I would seriously hope so but I have no insight whether they actually have separate systems for them or not.
BTW: Fish and invert systems are usually separated because fish don't really care about elevated nitrates and phosphates while many inverts and especially corals are sensitive to those. But that doesn't mean that there are no fish in the invert systems.

HumbleFish · 07/15/2019, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

BTW, I had that recently a lot that fish died under suspicious circumstances.
And every single tuxedo damsel I bought from LA or BZ this year died of something that looked like Uronema. So it seems it is currently going around.

Pharmaceutical grade metro makes all the difference, my friend. Back when I was using Metroplex (only 70% active), Uronema on chromis was a never-ending problem. Now that I'm using Fishman Metro it's one & done (500mg per 20 gallons). I don't even see uronema any longer, and I QT dozens & dozens of chromis at a time.

Giving a 45 min bath using proper formalin (37% formaldehyde) upon receiving the fish has also worked for brook & uronema.

ThRoewer · 07/15/2019, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

Pharmaceutical grade metro makes all the difference, my friend. Back when I was using Metroplex (only 70% active), Uronema on chromis was a never-ending problem. Now that I'm using Fishman Metro it's one & done (500mg per 20 gallons). I don't even see uronema any longer, and I QT dozens & dozens of chromis at a time.

Giving a 45 min bath using proper formalin (37% formaldehyde) upon receiving the fish has also worked for brook & uronema.

Where to get "Fishman Metro"?

HumbleFish · 07/15/2019, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

Where to get "Fishman Metro"?

For some reason he doesn't currently have it listed on his website: https://www.fishchemical.com/FULL-PR....Category.html

But he gets all his meds from this source: https://store.nationalfishpharm.com/.../metronidazole

07/12/2019, 08:48 AM	#1
afm32607 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279	Disease in QT Tank everything died, what to do now TL;DR I think I have Uronema Marinum in my QT tank, all the fish are dead. What do I do? I am worried (without proof) it will have spread to my coral QT tank located a few feet away. What do I do there? A bit about my QT. The QT has a heater, skimmer, and powerfilter, 20 gallons of water and maybe 30 lbs of spare live rock I had lying around after I broke down an old reef tank. This rock stayed wet in another QT tank. So, I recently bought 5 chromis. All five died within a week, I chalked it up to either ammonia poisoning (because I over loaded the 20 gallon tank or the Live rock wasn't as good as I thought) or the shipping stress (as there was a significant delay in getting them into the tank thanks to UPS). About two weeks after those deaths (two to three weeks from initial addition of the five above) I bought four more (one died in transit leaving me with three). Within ten days of those being purchased all three were dead. After these three died, I ruled out shipping stress and ammonia poisoning. However, the first two to die had odd 'burn' marks on their sides (similar to many in the first batch). Originally, I assumed the burn marks to be side effects of ammonia poisoning from the extended stay in the shipping bags or my less than stellar live rock (as a note I think the rock is perfect, covered in coraline, never dried out etc). In looking into my situation further, the burn marks look like photos of Uronema infections, the symptoms follow those infections. Ideally, I would like to do whatever is needed to ensure I clear out the infection while hopefully preserving the long term usefulness of the rock in the tank (i.e. avoid permanently ruining its use in a reef tank/inverts). I also have two small ones so I would prefer not to have another bucket of bleach outside or in the garage for them to try and drink... So what are my options? Clean everything and start over? I am not in love with the live rock, but I would prefer not to bleach it or the tank or my equipment. Would RO/DI work? i.e. empty the Qt tank and fill with clean RO water and then wait a week or two before putting in more salt water? Antibiotics/medication? Saw middling results with the use of medications other than copper. Any suggestions? Toss everything in QT tank that isn't plastic and start over? I have a second related issue. A few feet from this fish QT I have a reef QT for coral. Obviously, this live rock is very important to me. Any thoughts on how to ensure I don't have uronema in this tank as well? I am pretty good about keeping clean hands in each tank, but when you're in a hurry.....Also, this tank has snails and crabs in it currently....

07/15/2019, 07:17 AM	#8
monkeysee1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: MERRIMACK NH Posts: 423	"And every single tuxedo damsel I bought from LA or BZ this year died of something that looked like Uronema. So it seems it is currently going around. " ___________ Hi! Just picking your brain - with a related question: do Live Aquaria and Blue Zoo keep their captive bred fish separate from the wild caught fish? And do they keep their corals and inverts in separate tanks away from their fish also? I've ordered inverts from BOTH this year with NO issues with spreading any disease. Shrimp, cocoa worms, snails, urchins and hermits are doing well and my fish are thriving! Would like to order a captive bred dotty back, but I want the scoop from you, because I know they're going to say "why of course we keep them separate and quarantine them" __________________ Your "fair share" is not in my wallet; it's in my fish tank!! Current tank info: 90 Gallon saltwater 10 fish with a few inverts; NO CORALS! Tried to go reef; didn't work out so hot; FOWLR's for me! Last edited by monkeysee1; 07/15/2019 at 07:31 AM.

07/12/2019, 09:00 AM	#2
HumbleFish Moved On Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4,757	If you suspect Uronema, I would break everything down, sterilize with chlorine and reset it back up. Technically dosing metronidazole a few times should eliminate Uronema from the QT, but I would only trust that if you could get metro that was close to pharmaceutical grade (99% pure). Seachem Metroplex is only 70% active, and sometimes takes 10-14 days of dosing every 48 hours to completely clear a fish of uronema.

07/12/2019, 09:10 AM	#3
HumbleFish Moved On Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4,757	You could also dose 100ppm chlorine as per this guide:https://dec.vermont.gov/sites/dec/fi...sinfection.pdf Circulate well throughout the system for 48 hours. After 48 hours you can use Sodium Thiosulfate to neutralize the chlorine in the water. Most pool places sell a product called Chlor Out which contains sodium thiosulfate and is safe to use. You can use this website to determine how much sodium thiosulfate to dose: https://www.edspumps.com/water-treat...lorination.pdf After you are all finished, your alkalinity might need to be raised. If so, use baking soda as per this calculator: http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

07/12/2019, 09:31 AM	#4
afm32607 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279	I will try the metronidazole on my reef QT i think, as there I do not want to completely break down that tank. And I guess I will have little choice but to bleach the fish QT and just leave it running for a couple days with bleach in it if swapping out the water with RO wont work.

07/12/2019, 09:32 AM	#5
afm32607 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279	Thank you for the advice will let everyone know the results (maybe try and buy a single healthy Chromis afterwards)