Non veggy terrestrial food items. ( live protein for cuttle?)

Fitz19d · 03/14/2016, 01:27 PM

So since I read about it a couple years ago right as I got out for a while been in love with dwarf cuttlefish idea. Have my 300dd now and planning out an attempt. Foods largest issue needing daily live food for the baby cuttles until they get larger for easier sourced foods and transitioned to frozen.

Cultured mysis would be possibly but very intensive between multiple tanks to stop cannibalism and constantly hatching brine.

I did see some signs that maybe the babies would take tiny shore/grass shrimp even if they waste so.e of it, may be much more readily obtained. Having gotten that far but interested I. Seek g if cherry, shore, grass et al can be cultured at home easier than mysis. Does sound like any kind of pod is just not an option for the cuttle.

So this brings me to the point. A while back was an article about scientists as a joke feeding peanut butter to jellyfish being able to sustain them on it. I know many freshwater feeder fish lack right nutrients but what about other terrestrial foods. Namely from my herping days dubia roaches, maybe some other easily bred insect?

With dubia they have great nutrient profiles that make them great feeders for more than just lizards. Birds, small mammals, etc.... So wonder if dubia could be used for fish in general but for me especially maybe cuttles would take the wee baby nymph's

Boom · 03/14/2016, 11:19 PM

Would be interesting to see. Have you considered rollypollies) They're essentially terrestrial isopods. I just don't remember how long they live in water. I'll collect some tomorrow and feed to fish. If you're interested, that is.

Fitz19d · 03/15/2016, 09:07 AM

Not sure how easy to get a supply of rollies would be. Would think the ones I'm used to seeing would be almost too big at least for my use with cuttles. Neat idea for sure. I was already kinda thinking the whole crustaceans and pods etc are basically bugs of the sea.

Be careful of any that could have gotten near pesticides or anything. Stuff like the dubia I knew would be safe because raised myself indoors.

Boom · 03/23/2016, 09:26 AM

Found 2 pill bugs and lots of juicy earthworms yesterday. Both sink nicely and disappeared quickly into hungry mouths. Earthworms live/wiggle a long time in saltwater, even when cut into pieces.
Do you think you can use nubia, smaller pillbugs and worm segments until your babies get big enough for larger fare? IME juveniles grow pretty fast.

I don't understand why you're ruling out amphipods. I had two cuttlefish that hatched in my sump (LFS gave to me since I culture live foods), that proceeded to eat every grammarian amphipod and tisbe pod in the chaeto! Cool to watch them hunt.
On a side note, I have a brooding clownfish tank that I have to feed pretty heavily. My clowns don't like eating amphipods. The pod population exploded so much I had to remove all zoa's, rock and all, to a tank with a hungry Wrasse. In the Pico tank (no fish) that I feed live tigerpods once per week, the amphipods are orange from the carotenoids! Point being, when they're multiplying, you have many sizes available for the baby cuttlefish. You just need a headstart, rubble or chaeto, and lots of quality food.

Fitz19d · 03/23/2016, 07:57 PM

Update would be I found a local science supplier of live mysis willing to sell to me in 500 minimum sized orders ($40) so probably going primarily with that and hoping to culture Palaemonetes vulgaris SW shrimp fairly easily myself.

Colorado so wild bugs both I think risky due to contamination and can't find year round. I might see if I can get a couple adult dubia again and breed up a tiny crop to try out when time comes.

I'm sure fish would accept them just fine, small ones at least or newer molts. Big ones get to be over an inch, and pretty crunchy. I'll still need to google their nutrient profile and try to compare against some other typical meaty foods.

While good to know they'll take them, I'd be worried about long term health if it's any kind of staple for the meaty foods.

As far as pods, from the Tonmo forums, many there seemed to be against amphipods, especially tigger pods as they seemed to think the nutrient profiel wasn't right and they had higher mortality feeding them.

I'm new to purposely culturing fish foods. (roaches were brain dead easy) Seemed like pods might be a bit harder/more work, especially since so tiny. The shrimp for older cuttles seem pretty easy. Water changes and flake food...

On the cuttles, I'm also up in the air on how immediately I'll launch into them. IE get tank cycled. (Dry rock + TBS saltwater live rock that I've quarantined for nasties before throwing in main tank) And then order eggs and have them as first inhabitants. Or go ahead and wait another 6 months after cycle and in the meantime stock some corals, maybe see if I can get a fair amount of the Palaemonetes vulgaris going in the tank and my natural pod and other life population up and going.

Main objective is the cuttles and getting them reproducing, but at some point I'd like to try adding other life to the main display. Forgot my brilliant idea the other day, but either big peaceful fish that wont get attacked by cuttles. (Get my 110g tall acrlic sump working well in addition to my 125 and could maybe do the cuttles just in there with macro and DSB, fresh hatches in their breeder boxes up top in either tank)

karimwassef · 03/23/2016, 08:44 PM

what about grubs..

This is a little extreme, but:

or

Fitz19d · 03/23/2016, 11:47 PM

Super worms in reptile world kinda sucky. Lots of shell, bad protein ratio etc. Is why dubia were great.

Those grub.... omg shudder.... kill it with fire. Also, unless theres some visual trick, holy hell huge. Grouper food? Grubs are gross when squashed, certainly wouldn't cut up into pieces well.

If I play around with this concept, I definitely think it will be worms and/or dubia.

03/14/2016, 01:27 PM	#1
Fitz19d Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Frederick Colorado Posts: 475	Non veggy terrestrial food items. ( live protein for cuttle?) So since I read about it a couple years ago right as I got out for a while been in love with dwarf cuttlefish idea. Have my 300dd now and planning out an attempt. Foods largest issue needing daily live food for the baby cuttles until they get larger for easier sourced foods and transitioned to frozen. Cultured mysis would be possibly but very intensive between multiple tanks to stop cannibalism and constantly hatching brine. I did see some signs that maybe the babies would take tiny shore/grass shrimp even if they waste so.e of it, may be much more readily obtained. Having gotten that far but interested I. Seek g if cherry, shore, grass et al can be cultured at home easier than mysis. Does sound like any kind of pod is just not an option for the cuttle. So this brings me to the point. A while back was an article about scientists as a joke feeding peanut butter to jellyfish being able to sustain them on it. I know many freshwater feeder fish lack right nutrients but what about other terrestrial foods. Namely from my herping days dubia roaches, maybe some other easily bred insect? With dubia they have great nutrient profiles that make them great feeders for more than just lizards. Birds, small mammals, etc.... So wonder if dubia could be used for fish in general but for me especially maybe cuttles would take the wee baby nymph's

03/14/2016, 11:19 PM	#2
Boom Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 187	Would be interesting to see. Have you considered rollypollies) They're essentially terrestrial isopods. I just don't remember how long they live in water. I'll collect some tomorrow and feed to fish. If you're interested, that is. __________________ Pareto's Law apprentice Last edited by Boom; 03/14/2016 at 11:25 PM.

03/23/2016, 09:26 AM	#4
Boom Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 187	Found 2 pill bugs and lots of juicy earthworms yesterday. Both sink nicely and disappeared quickly into hungry mouths. Earthworms live/wiggle a long time in saltwater, even when cut into pieces. Do you think you can use nubia, smaller pillbugs and worm segments until your babies get big enough for larger fare? IME juveniles grow pretty fast. I don't understand why you're ruling out amphipods. I had two cuttlefish that hatched in my sump (LFS gave to me since I culture live foods), that proceeded to eat every grammarian amphipod and tisbe pod in the chaeto! Cool to watch them hunt. On a side note, I have a brooding clownfish tank that I have to feed pretty heavily. My clowns don't like eating amphipods. The pod population exploded so much I had to remove all zoa's, rock and all, to a tank with a hungry Wrasse. In the Pico tank (no fish) that I feed live tigerpods once per week, the amphipods are orange from the carotenoids! Point being, when they're multiplying, you have many sizes available for the baby cuttlefish. You just need a headstart, rubble or chaeto, and lots of quality food. __________________ Pareto's Law apprentice

03/23/2016, 08:44 PM	#6
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	what about grubs.. This is a little extreme, but: or __________________ Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape

03/15/2016, 09:07 AM	#3
Fitz19d Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Frederick Colorado Posts: 475	Not sure how easy to get a supply of rollies would be. Would think the ones I'm used to seeing would be almost too big at least for my use with cuttles. Neat idea for sure. I was already kinda thinking the whole crustaceans and pods etc are basically bugs of the sea. Be careful of any that could have gotten near pesticides or anything. Stuff like the dubia I knew would be safe because raised myself indoors.

03/23/2016, 07:57 PM	#5
Fitz19d Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Frederick Colorado Posts: 475	Update would be I found a local science supplier of live mysis willing to sell to me in 500 minimum sized orders ($40) so probably going primarily with that and hoping to culture Palaemonetes vulgaris SW shrimp fairly easily myself. Colorado so wild bugs both I think risky due to contamination and can't find year round. I might see if I can get a couple adult dubia again and breed up a tiny crop to try out when time comes. I'm sure fish would accept them just fine, small ones at least or newer molts. Big ones get to be over an inch, and pretty crunchy. I'll still need to google their nutrient profile and try to compare against some other typical meaty foods. While good to know they'll take them, I'd be worried about long term health if it's any kind of staple for the meaty foods. As far as pods, from the Tonmo forums, many there seemed to be against amphipods, especially tigger pods as they seemed to think the nutrient profiel wasn't right and they had higher mortality feeding them. I'm new to purposely culturing fish foods. (roaches were brain dead easy) Seemed like pods might be a bit harder/more work, especially since so tiny. The shrimp for older cuttles seem pretty easy. Water changes and flake food... On the cuttles, I'm also up in the air on how immediately I'll launch into them. IE get tank cycled. (Dry rock + TBS saltwater live rock that I've quarantined for nasties before throwing in main tank) And then order eggs and have them as first inhabitants. Or go ahead and wait another 6 months after cycle and in the meantime stock some corals, maybe see if I can get a fair amount of the Palaemonetes vulgaris going in the tank and my natural pod and other life population up and going. Main objective is the cuttles and getting them reproducing, but at some point I'd like to try adding other life to the main display. Forgot my brilliant idea the other day, but either big peaceful fish that wont get attacked by cuttles. (Get my 110g tall acrlic sump working well in addition to my 125 and could maybe do the cuttles just in there with macro and DSB, fresh hatches in their breeder boxes up top in either tank)

03/23/2016, 11:47 PM	#7
Fitz19d Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Frederick Colorado Posts: 475	Super worms in reptile world kinda sucky. Lots of shell, bad protein ratio etc. Is why dubia were great. Those grub.... omg shudder.... kill it with fire. Also, unless theres some visual trick, holy hell huge. Grouper food? Grubs are gross when squashed, certainly wouldn't cut up into pieces well. If I play around with this concept, I definitely think it will be worms and/or dubia.