Ultimate SPS Color Tricks

[reeflover62]

The ultimate trick is ?? The best colored corals that I have ever seen was a friend of mine that ran 2 400watt XM over a 90gal. with 2 vho super actinics.That's 1020 watts!! He had lots of fish a small deltec skimmer and lots of nuisance algae. He could take any coral from my tank or the store and turn it into a jewel in a few weeks.

[wcharon]

Thanks...

[OrionN]

Originally Posted by PaleHorse

completely agree just don't count on them growing.....

Mine and a lot of other reefer the coral grow great under LED for a long time, years. None of these success for 3 months and crash. I used to keep coral under MH also and they grow great and have great color also. Minimal heat and no chiller, great color and growth, plus a lower e bill, cause me to switch over. The cost right now for LED is 10 time the start up cost for MH. However maintenance and operating cost is a fraction of MH.

[dtum]

Thought I'd give this thread a bump. It has been almost two years and I was wondering if anyone else wanted to share their thoughts. I'm looking at you, lunar!

[markalot]

2 Years later and my opinions haven't changed much.

I'm using PhosphateRx (lanthanum chloride) to help me keep PO4 steady since I was unable to handle GFO and constant replacement.

My colors look best when KH is around 6.7 and PO4 is around .05 with some detectable nitrates.

I've fallen into the trace dosing trap and as Peter alluded to very early in the thread I have no idea if it's needed or not. Dosing traces does increase my Alk usage ... maybe.

I still have the coral mentioned in my earlier post and it's a LOT bigger.


As is this one.


Unfortunately I would not call my colors at their peak, or what is needed for TOTM type color. On the left side of the photo above you can see the rather drab looking Red Robin. When things are perfect it starts to get some knockout reds on it.

In my latest attempt to hold good color I have increased PO4 reduction even though my tests show the same level of PO4. I am seeing improvements over the last few weeks but need another month or so to really judge.

[Piper27]

I have found some metals have a good impact on color with low po4, providing a nice metallic sheen to the corals flesh. Manganese and zinc are two that I like to make sure are in the bottles I use. This combined with low nutrients and heavy feeding with a lot of fish and high light and flow really makes some nice corals. Even some copper sulphate additives are a nice if used correctly. Using bulbs with a lower kelvin rating and using a lot of blue led suppliment also will bring out some colors you won't see on a 20k tank. It takes a bit of time for the corals to adjust and grow to show better colors but 10k bulbs are my favorite if supplimented correctly. Dosing flourine and iodine together can provide nice colors on acroporas branches, although I have not experimented with it for as long as I would like to in order to give advice on using it. Not sure how much results you will see in higher nutrient tanks as opposed to low nutrients.
But the main thing I tell people is feed as much as you can feed your fish while keeping nutrients very low and you will see great colors providing everything else is in order. The more fish in the system the healthier the corals. The better and more diverse your filtration is the easier it is to feed more. I don't like to rely on just one filtration method. Some methods can benifit the tank in ways others can't. With large tanks, diversity in filtration and tank inhabitants makes for a nice easier to maintain tank. That's my experience at least.

This is a good topic, especially if experienced reefers all chip in we could learn some stuff.

[jda]

Posts #2 and #3 are still pretty much right on the money. ...and would have been ten or twenty years ago.

My only thing to add is that frags and colonies are whole different animals. The equipment and experience level to get a frag to encrust a frag plug is a totally different skillset than the one needed to keep colonies the size of softballs or much larger - especially the equipment. If you want to excel at colonies, then do what people with colonies do.

[gdemos]

most all here i'd agree with most particularly with High Nutrient Import : High Nutrient Export as a principal. so far as additives go and speaking from my experience, my systems growing and keeping large/robust Acro colonies, the most important factor i'd suggest is experiment safely (i.e. 1/4 dose to 1/2 dose for starters, observe observe observe).

[coraldude]

Here's a big question for you guys. Does anyone get good growth and collaboration dosing to part? Or do you guys have better luck using calcium reactor?

I have been dosing to part for the last year and get decent growth and color, but have just switched to a calcium reactor and in the last two weeks I'm seeing great results.

I would love to hear your opinion on two part dosing versus calcium Reactors


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[Piper27]

Calcium reactor and kalk all the way for me, I never could get the same results with a big tank and dosing. I would try and go back, when I hooked up the reactor and kalk things made an obvious turn around both times.

[gdemos]

2 weeks may be premature to observe definitive 'great results' but it's great to hear!! my reason for using a calcium reactor is largely due to the belief that the dissolved reactor media is not only providing calcium and alkalinity, but also potentially all the 'other elements' that are composed within the arragonite. i've wondered if anyone conducted an ICP on Calcium Reactor Effluent (of various media) and attempted to compare to a traditional 2-Part solution mixed with their water.

Originally Posted by coraldude

Here's a big question for you guys. Does anyone get good growth and collaboration dosing to part? Or do you guys have better luck using calcium reactor?

I have been dosing to part for the last year and get decent growth and color, but have just switched to a calcium reactor and in the last two weeks I'm seeing great results.

I would love to hear your opinion on two part dosing versus calcium Reactors


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[coraldude]

I also like the idea of the other elements being resolved


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[reefmutt]

I would agreed, posts #2 and #3 are still the fundamentals..
I think there are reefers here that would agree with Piper concerning specific trace elements, though..
One thing that i think may get overlooked is what types of food get into a reef.
frozen foods like mysis and brine or various seafood mixes don't necessarily have some of the preservatives found in some dry pellet foods.
most pellet foods contain either all or some of the following preservative agents: zinc, manganese, iron, copper.. and others..
Not to mention the digestion of marine algae by fish that produces some amino acids..
All this to say, some reefers may say that they don't dose or don't need to dose certain things but may actually be dosing them without knowing.. especially large systems that rely on pelleted food to feed many fish..

[Piper27]

Good point, the food you feed is another key. I would say a tank being fed by a wide variety of of frozen and or fresh foods will have more healthy and diverse of life. Everything in my tank feeds off the mixture of foods I feed. If I fed only pellets I would only be feeding my fish and everything else including the corals would be only relying on fish poo. Which works, maybe better for some who have very small tanks, but the healthier the system the healthier the corals.
Most of us know the basics can get amazing results but none of them are tricks. That's why I brought up metals and such. No one brought up anything along those lines yet and I find stuff like that very interesting.

[gdemos]

I'd 2nd your emotion on copper sulphate having a positive impact on my sps colonies.

Originally Posted by Piper27

Good point, the food you feed is another key. I would say a tank being fed by a wide variety of of frozen and or fresh foods will have more healthy and diverse of life. Everything in my tank feeds off the mixture of foods I feed. If I fed only pellets I would only be feeding my fish and everything else including the corals would be only relying on fish poo. Which works, maybe better for some who have very small tanks, but the healthier the system the healthier the corals.
Most of us know the basics can get amazing results but none of them are tricks. That's why I brought up metals and such. No one brought up anything along those lines yet and I find stuff like that very interesting.

[Piper27]

Yea there is no need to overdo it with certain products either. Some products contain smaller amounts you can add daily for much milder results. I have yet to try to use the more potent bottles but may at some point just to experiment with it.

[Stolireef]

If you are using 'non-synthetic' salt, shouldn't they provide all of the necessary trace elements?

[slavetonet]

Trace elements, fatty acids, lipids, aminos, vitamins all play a major part in healthy corals.
In return - the coral growth and colouration can exceed what can happen in nature.
It is just not common knowledge amongst reefing.

I can't elaborate anymore on it as it would take too long to explain it.
All I know it works very well.

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by Stolireef

If you are using 'non-synthetic' salt, shouldn't they provide all of the necessary trace elements?

Technically yes but It depends greatly on coral density, growth rates and water change frequency,
If one were changing 100% of the water each week, one would have great replenishment, I suppose. But if you have a 300 gallon tank with several small colonies or a 70g tank jam packed with mature colonies, the trace element requirements will be very different. Also, depending on filtration methods, this may also change trace element requirements.
I suspect a fast growing cheato fuge will not only reduce n and p, it will also reduce beneficial trace elements..

[Vio]

Originally Posted by OrionN

Mine and a lot of other reefer the coral grow great under LED for a long time, years. None of these success for 3 months and crash. I used to keep coral under MH also and they grow great and have great color also. Minimal heat and no chiller, great color and growth, plus a lower e bill, cause me to switch over. The cost right now for LED is 10 time the start up cost for MH. However maintenance and operating cost is a fraction of MH.

LEDs need 20 years more to come close to MH Radium, 10 x less ( LED) got nothing to do w/color , use more Live Rocks, use Refugium (grow Chaeto) use GOOD salt, run Algae Scrubber, less mechanical filters, go more Bio, get rid of Detritus fast is possible, use a GOOD Protein Skimmer, use good RO/DI, use some Kalkawasser Sttir ( Deltec) good water flow. Good CUC crew. Feed the fish w/natural food. etc.

[stevedola]

Originally Posted by Vio

LEDs need 20 years more to come close to MH Radium, 10 x less ( LED) got nothing to do w/color , use more Live Rocks, use Refugium (grow Chaeto) use GOOD salt, run Algae Scrubber, less mechanical filters, go more Bio, get rid of Detritus fast is possible, use a GOOD Protein Skimmer, use good RO/DI, use some Kalkawasser Sttir ( Deltec) good water flow. Good CUC crew. Feed the fish w/natural food. etc.

This is mostly opinion. LEDs are not 20 years from MH radiums. They can grow healthy colorful corals today. The initial cost of LEDs have come down substantially since 2015 (which is when the quote from Orion was from) to where its 2x to 3x the initial cost of a MH radium with reflector setup currently.

There are obviously other factors and other disciplines to maintaining a healthy tank (many you listed). It is not a necessity to implement MH or T5 lighting in order to create a healthy vibrant SPS system.

[Stolireef]

Originally Posted by Vio

LEDs need 20 years more to come close to MH Radium, 10 x less ( LED) got nothing to do w/color , use more Live Rocks, use Refugium (grow Chaeto) use GOOD salt, run Algae Scrubber, less mechanical filters, go more Bio, get rid of Detritus fast is possible, use a GOOD Protein Skimmer, use good RO/DI, use some Kalkawasser Sttir ( Deltec) good water flow. Good CUC crew. Feed the fish w/natural food. etc.

Ummm. Have you seen the TOTM thread for March. He's using AI Hydra 52s (not even the latest version). I don't think he has any issues with coloration or growth. I promised to link to his TOTM thread every time I see a post like this. A TOTM from a few months ago (Elliott's tank) is running on AI Sols. He lives a few blocks from me and I've seen his tank in person many times. Acro's grow out of the top of the tank. I think we can put this one to bed.

[jda]

This is an ultimate color thread. There are still no LED tanks that have ultimate color. None. The panels do an OK job and that is good enough for some people, but every one of the TOTMs would have better color with Radium or Phoenix lighting. There is an extra 20-25% there that you can get with better lights... especially with some of the more colorful acropora.

[markalot]

I don't think we need to have this argument here. IMO there are too many variables at play with acros and lighting. There are some acros that look better under LED, I've seen it first hand. There are MORE that look better under halide or t5, and there are apparently some that will refuse to color if any LED's are over the tank. I'm not sure anyone knows why, though lot's of folks will claim otherwise.

I would hope this thread will quickly get back on track. What is 'your' trick for coloring up SPS? What did you do, how long did it take, do you have a success story? You being the general you, not someone in particular.

[Stolireef]

Originally Posted by markalot

I don't think we need to have this argument here. IMO there are too many variables at play with acros and lighting. There are some acros that look better under LED, I've seen it first hand. There are MORE that look better under halide or t5, and there are apparently some that will refuse to color if any LED's are over the tank. I'm not sure anyone knows why, though lot's of folks will claim otherwise.

I would hope this thread will quickly get back on track. What is 'your' trick for coloring up SPS? What did you do, how long did it take, do you have a success story? You being the general you, not someone in particular.

Agreed. Sorry I brought it up.

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