Live Sand or Live rock

jaking · 12/05/2017, 11:19 PM

If I'm setting up a new aquarium. I'm assuming live rock is a better option but can you get close to the same benefits from live Sand? If you go with dry rock can you buy worms etc that you can get from live rock?

JUNBUG361 · 12/05/2017, 11:35 PM

Me personally prefer bare buttom with live rocks. Why buy, someone can probably give freebies

jaking · 12/05/2017, 11:46 PM

Thanks for the reply. Seems like the man made rock and etc would be easier to work with as far as design and setup

homer1475 · 12/06/2017, 04:00 AM

If I ever setup another tank it will be with properly cured dry pukani. IMO the absolute best rock for filtration there is.

Skip the live sand, yes it's wet, but how long has it been sitting on the shelve? How long did it sit in an unheated warehouse and probably froze/got heated to well over 80 degrees killing anything that may have been live. IMO live sand is a gimick so they can charge more for it.

Besides unless you want a dust storm in your tank, you need to rinse sand in plain water, and that will kill anything living in the "live sand".

mcgyvr · 12/06/2017, 05:30 AM

Use dry sand and you can use live rock if you want..
If that live rock is locally sourced you can have little to no cycle and be adding fish/corals in no time..
If you get your live rock shipped from most places then you will likely have a cycle due to the die off from shipping..

"live" does NOT mean it comes with worms or anything as "live" is only about it being colonized with beneficial bacteria.. But there is usually a good chance there is more than just bacteria on it..

But if you go "Dry rock" and plan on corals you will usually get worms/pods,etc.. that come in on the corals..

ReefMaster48 · 12/06/2017, 06:18 AM

IMO,

Live rock or even sand is not worth the risk. You can never know what exactly is on it, visible or not. Dry rock and sand ensures that there is NO bad (or even good, yes) items that will enter your tank through the rock or sand. Check out BRS.com for dry rock, best place IMO. You get a lot of beneficial bacteria from live rock, but it is not worth it IMO and experience. An extra week or two of waiting for a complete cycle is much MUCH better then a pest algae, or other unwanted hitchhiker.

lapin · 12/06/2017, 06:52 AM

Since you are in Florence, driving down to the coast to pick up some live rocks and a bucket or 2 of sand is prob not in the cards. Next option is to buy live rock and sand. As stated above once you rinse the sand a few times you will get rid of most of the live stuff. Not a good choice. You can buy live rock. Comes with good stuff and bad stuff. If you are new to this, you might not want to deal with bad stuff. It takes a lot of fun out of the hobby at first. A better option might be to get good porus rock thats dry and start your own bacteria cycling. Local reefers or your LFS will be happy to give you a cup of live sand and a piece of live rock to add to your dry stuff to start the growth cycle. It is possible to buy tank starter bacteria, comes in a bottle. Any of these methods will work. Some faster than others. Just keep in mind reef keeping is a long term project. No hurry, No worry. Is one way better than another?

mcgyvr · 12/06/2017, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapin

Since you are in Florence, driving down to the coast to pick up some live rocks and a bucket or 2 of sand is prob not in the cards.

A word of caution.. Doing that may likely be illegal in most beaches/areas and may include hefty fines....

Dmorty217 · 12/06/2017, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

A word of caution.. Doing that may likely be illegal in most beaches/areas and may include hefty fines....

+1 if you were to do this LEGALLY some way you would want to go a few miles out and get rock, you don't want the rock that has been near the shore

sde1500 · 12/06/2017, 09:08 AM

I get most people wanting to control exactly what goes in tanks, so evil creatures are less likely to make it into our reefs, but I feel its way overblown. This will totally be anecdotal, but how many people do you see starting with dry rock that later have a ton of algae issues? Or how many cure/treat their rocks for months to try and avoid these issues. Then compare to the people that buy high quality live rock, and don't have these issues. Are a couple crabs that you can set up traps for really worse than nutrient and algae issues for months to years?

mcgyvr · 12/06/2017, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sde1500

I get most people wanting to control exactly what goes in tanks, so evil creatures are less likely to make it into our reefs, but I feel its way overblown.

I agree fully...
But I also believe that with most rock paying the extra just for some "bacteria" thats going to come anyways is kind of goofy..
Now some live rock is "live" for far more reasons than just the bacteria on it..

I've been meaning to order some TBS live rock just for the diversity and fun "discoveries" it can bring..
I'd love to get a pygmy octopus,etc...

sde1500 · 12/06/2017, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I agree fully...
But I also believe that with most rock paying the extra just for some "bacteria" thats going to come anyways is kind of goofy..
Now some live rock is "live" for far more reasons than just the bacteria on it..

I've been meaning to order some TBS live rock just for the diversity and fun "discoveries" it can bring..
I'd love to get a pygmy octopus,etc...

Yea, that was why I hedged my statement with "high quality" LR. Wouldn't buy anything that wasn't shipped in water, preferably very quickly. I regret not going with TBS for my current tank, definitely will for any upgrade. Finding an octopus would be awesome "oh no, now I need to set up another tank for this guy" haha

jaking · 12/06/2017, 01:18 PM

Thanks for all the reply I really appreciate it! I read in other posts dry rock can take forever to get rid of algae issues, made me a little Leary of going with that. Have any of you had good luck with a certain type of dry rock?

mcgyvr · 12/06/2017, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaking

Thanks for all the reply I really appreciate it! I read in other posts dry rock can take forever to get rid of algae issues, made me a little Leary of going with that. Have any of you had good luck with a certain type of dry rock?

In general there seems to be a decent chunk of users who post phosphate related issues with Pukani rock... and they don't properly cure/leach it out prior to being used in the tank thus the elevated phosphate levels can fuel algae..
Its not a good reason to avoid dry rock in general...

There are far more users who don't experience that with Pukani and all other dry rock types..

lapin · 12/06/2017, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

In general there seems to be a decent chunk of users who post phosphate related issues with Pukani rock... and they don't properly cure/leach it out prior to being used in the tank thus the elevated phosphate levels can fuel algae..
Its not a good reason to avoid dry rock in general...

There are far more users who don't experience that with Pukani and all other dry rock types..

I agree. This time around im going with Marco Rock since I need quite a bit. Pressure wash and a quick acid bath. Then while soaking I can test for phosphate. If thats a prob I can use a bit of lanthanum chloride to help coax it out. We shall see how that goes.

Arcar · 12/07/2017, 11:16 AM

I’m debating ether doing half dry rock and half live. Or all dry rock but I don it care for the problems that comes with dry rock down the road and you can still get pests from corals... I’m super on the fence of what to do!

mcgyvr · 12/07/2017, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcar

I’m debating ether doing half dry rock and half live. Or all dry rock but I don it care for the problems that comes with dry rock down the road and you can still get pests from corals... I’m super on the fence of what to do!

Again the "problems" with dry rock are really because of one issue and if anything else related to dry rock is "user error" and you can have bound phosphate issues in live rock too so its really not related to dry rock at all..

In general... I believe that most issues in this hobby are caused by "user error" typically due to lack of knowledge/understanding.. Few people take the time to learn properly before diving in and that applies to many things in life..

But it sure is easier to just blame the product or equipment or rocks than your own laziness or lack of understanding,etc....

CRreef · 12/07/2017, 12:03 PM

i did get dry rock when i start my tank, 1/2 dry 1/2 live, to be honest the dry rock after 6 months still having a lot of brow algae and white spots, i haven't see any good things from the dry rock, is cheaper but it take long time to cycle the tank. Ill say get some live rock, try craigslist or letgo, i got 120lbs of live rock for only $70, i find it on craigslist. i haven't see any bad creatures from the live rock.
Also i start with live sand, it had a little worms at the beginning but i have a purple dottyback and that guy is eating those worms, now i dont see any worm around.

Arcar · 12/07/2017, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Again the "problems" with dry rock are really because of one issue and if anything else related to dry rock is "user error" and you can have bound phosphate issues in live rock too so its really not related to dry rock at all..

In general... I believe that most issues in this hobby are caused by "user error" typically due to lack of knowledge/understanding.. Few people take the time to learn properly before diving in and that applies to many things in life..

But it sure is easier to just blame the product or equipment or rocks than your own laziness or lack of understanding,etc....

Being blunt and having fun lol

jaking · 12/07/2017, 08:08 PM

With my luck I would most likely fall into the user error category lol. I'm thinking of doing all dry rock except for a couple of pieces from a near by aquarium shop to help seed the dry...

crawlerman · 12/08/2017, 01:11 PM

The dry pukani is really nice rock. Put it in a rubbermaid or brute can with saltwater heater and powerhead. Let it cycle and then check for phosphates. If it has high phosphates you have several options to treat it (water changes, GFO, lanthanum chloride and a skimmer). If you want to boost the life you can get a small amount of gulf rock that is shipped in water.

As far as sand, like others have said, I doubt much life is left in those bags of live sand. Use dry, rinse it well. You can add a handful of sand from someones tank for critters.

12/05/2017, 11:19 PM	#1
jaking Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Florence, AL Posts: 50	Live Sand or Live rock If I'm setting up a new aquarium. I'm assuming live rock is a better option but can you get close to the same benefits from live Sand? If you go with dry rock can you buy worms etc that you can get from live rock?

12/06/2017, 04:00 AM	#4
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	If I ever setup another tank it will be with properly cured dry pukani. IMO the absolute best rock for filtration there is. Skip the live sand, yes it's wet, but how long has it been sitting on the shelve? How long did it sit in an unheated warehouse and probably froze/got heated to well over 80 degrees killing anything that may have been live. IMO live sand is a gimick so they can charge more for it. Besides unless you want a dust storm in your tank, you need to rinse sand in plain water, and that will kill anything living in the "live sand". __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

12/06/2017, 05:30 AM	#5
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Use dry sand and you can use live rock if you want.. If that live rock is locally sourced you can have little to no cycle and be adding fish/corals in no time.. If you get your live rock shipped from most places then you will likely have a cycle due to the die off from shipping.. "live" does NOT mean it comes with worms or anything as "live" is only about it being colonized with beneficial bacteria.. But there is usually a good chance there is more than just bacteria on it.. But if you go "Dry rock" and plan on corals you will usually get worms/pods,etc.. that come in on the corals.. __________________ Who me?

12/06/2017, 09:08 AM	#10
sde1500 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Glocester, RI Posts: 3,336	I get most people wanting to control exactly what goes in tanks, so evil creatures are less likely to make it into our reefs, but I feel its way overblown. This will totally be anecdotal, but how many people do you see starting with dry rock that later have a ton of algae issues? Or how many cure/treat their rocks for months to try and avoid these issues. Then compare to the people that buy high quality live rock, and don't have these issues. Are a couple crabs that you can set up traps for really worse than nutrient and algae issues for months to years? __________________ My build thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2548422 Current Tank Info: 65 gallon mixed reef, Eshopps sump and HOB overflow, RO-110int skimmer, Reefbreeder 32" photons V1.

12/07/2017, 11:16 AM	#16
Arcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: East Michigan Posts: 122	I’m debating ether doing half dry rock and half live. Or all dry rock but I don it care for the problems that comes with dry rock down the road and you can still get pests from corals... I’m super on the fence of what to do! __________________ Setting up a new 120 gallon tank Current Tank Info: New 120 Gallon

12/05/2017, 11:35 PM	#2
JUNBUG361 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Antioch,CALIFORNIA Posts: 1,091	Me personally prefer bare buttom with live rocks. Why buy, someone can probably give freebies

12/05/2017, 11:46 PM	#3
jaking Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Florence, AL Posts: 50	Thanks for the reply. Seems like the man made rock and etc would be easier to work with as far as design and setup

12/06/2017, 06:18 AM	#6
ReefMaster48 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 342	IMO, Live rock or even sand is not worth the risk. You can never know what exactly is on it, visible or not. Dry rock and sand ensures that there is NO bad (or even good, yes) items that will enter your tank through the rock or sand. Check out BRS.com for dry rock, best place IMO. You get a lot of beneficial bacteria from live rock, but it is not worth it IMO and experience. An extra week or two of waiting for a complete cycle is much MUCH better then a pest algae, or other unwanted hitchhiker.

12/06/2017, 06:52 AM	#7
lapin Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Austin Posts: 801	Since you are in Florence, driving down to the coast to pick up some live rocks and a bucket or 2 of sand is prob not in the cards. Next option is to buy live rock and sand. As stated above once you rinse the sand a few times you will get rid of most of the live stuff. Not a good choice. You can buy live rock. Comes with good stuff and bad stuff. If you are new to this, you might not want to deal with bad stuff. It takes a lot of fun out of the hobby at first. A better option might be to get good porus rock thats dry and start your own bacteria cycling. Local reefers or your LFS will be happy to give you a cup of live sand and a piece of live rock to add to your dry stuff to start the growth cycle. It is possible to buy tank starter bacteria, comes in a bottle. Any of these methods will work. Some faster than others. Just keep in mind reef keeping is a long term project. No hurry, No worry. Is one way better than another?

12/06/2017, 01:18 PM	#13
jaking Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Florence, AL Posts: 50	Thanks for all the reply I really appreciate it! I read in other posts dry rock can take forever to get rid of algae issues, made me a little Leary of going with that. Have any of you had good luck with a certain type of dry rock?

12/07/2017, 12:03 PM	#18
CRreef Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 83	i did get dry rock when i start my tank, 1/2 dry 1/2 live, to be honest the dry rock after 6 months still having a lot of brow algae and white spots, i haven't see any good things from the dry rock, is cheaper but it take long time to cycle the tank. Ill say get some live rock, try craigslist or letgo, i got 120lbs of live rock for only $70, i find it on craigslist. i haven't see any bad creatures from the live rock. Also i start with live sand, it had a little worms at the beginning but i have a purple dottyback and that guy is eating those worms, now i dont see any worm around.

12/07/2017, 08:08 PM	#20
jaking Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Florence, AL Posts: 50	With my luck I would most likely fall into the user error category lol. I'm thinking of doing all dry rock except for a couple of pieces from a near by aquarium shop to help seed the dry...

12/08/2017, 01:11 PM	#21
crawlerman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 503	The dry pukani is really nice rock. Put it in a rubbermaid or brute can with saltwater heater and powerhead. Let it cycle and then check for phosphates. If it has high phosphates you have several options to treat it (water changes, GFO, lanthanum chloride and a skimmer). If you want to boost the life you can get a small amount of gulf rock that is shipped in water. As far as sand, like others have said, I doubt much life is left in those bags of live sand. Use dry, rinse it well. You can add a handful of sand from someones tank for critters.