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Unread 03/04/2009, 10:04 PM   #126
Soundwave
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I'm not putting the design down at all you can't go wrong with a Buck Puck, Heatsink and Cree LEDs..... I can't put my finger on it but something just doesn't seem right.. you are using less then half of the LEDs that most people are using and are possibly not driving the LEDs with maximum current but still seem to have good coverage. The Solaris uses 60 Luxeon Rebels per 24" , Aquillumination uses 24 LEDs per foot and various other people including myself built different versions of a LED light that use a whole lot more then 48 LEDs. What gives?
I think the biggest thing is that everyone else (production units) is using optics. That cuts the light spread significantly. I know I'm not getting as high of PAR readings as a Solaris but that is the reason. Maybe it was some sort of lucky coincidence that this works so well.

By the way, I have power usage info. It looks like I'm using a total of 132.72 watts. The whites are at 83.52 and the blues at 49.2. That is half the usage of my PC fixture and produces almost 3 times the light!


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Unread 03/04/2009, 10:05 PM   #127
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I'm only trying to figure out a cheaper way to power them.. I'm trying to do this on a 120 gallon tank, and thinking I'll need double what you have put together. Since half the cost is in the buckpacks, I was hoping for a cheaper solution there is all.

Your solution is the better way, I'm just looking for a cheaper way.


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Unread 03/04/2009, 10:05 PM   #128
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Soundwave I do like your setup..I was looking to expand to it for longer length though. You said your system was what 48" L what is the width? Is it posssible to run the buckpuck you have in series or would you need to swap out with a powerbuck?


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Unread 03/04/2009, 10:06 PM   #129
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angle won't work....i'm attaching them to a light drawer. so in that case, would you go thicker or wider on the aluminum piece?
I'm gonna have to go with wider. Reason being that it helps to pull the heat away. It would be better than going thicker because the heat would still be centralized over the LED. My opinion, though.


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Unread 03/04/2009, 10:10 PM   #130
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Soundwave I do like your setup..I was looking to expand to it for longer length though. You said your system was what 48" L what is the width? Is it posssible to run the buckpuck you have in series or would you need to swap out with a powerbuck?
Standard 75g. I think that's 18 inches front to back.


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Unread 03/05/2009, 12:40 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soundwave
I'm gonna have to go with wider. Reason being that it helps to pull the heat away. It would be better than going thicker because the heat would still be centralized over the LED. My opinion, though.
yeah, i'm thinking i'm gonna do something like 1/4 x 1.5-2" x 24" long....about the size of 1 of my t5 bulbs & mount it in the center of the 4 bulbs. should be right in the middle of the fans as well to help w/ cooling


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Unread 03/05/2009, 12:59 PM   #132
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Hey soundwave, i have a standard 120 gal (4x2x2), how close together would i need to place the leds if i wanted to use optics? Im guessing i would want the wide spread optics if i did so correct?


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Unread 03/05/2009, 03:03 PM   #133
lynxvs
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soundwave
I think the biggest thing is that everyone else (production units) is using optics. That cuts the light spread significantly. I know I'm not getting as high of PAR readings as a Solaris but that is the reason. Maybe it was some sort of lucky coincidence that this works so well.

By the way, I have power usage info. It looks like I'm using a total of 132.72 watts. The whites are at 83.52 and the blues at 49.2. That is half the usage of my PC fixture and produces almost 3 times the light!
So what was the measured current in the White and blue LED series? What PC fixture did you have, the pics that you show are pretty bright... the PAR readings look really low...


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Unread 03/05/2009, 04:43 PM   #134
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My two cents
first I would like to say thanks soundwave your design is very easy to understand, the components you chose are easy to obtain and by simply adding buck pucks power supply's and leds you can build any size fixture you need it's modular by design I plan to add three or four leds for moon lites and use dimmer pucks with three power supply's so I have the option to turn on or off the led colors at different times, also since I have a rimless tank I plan on using an Aluminum extrusion heat sink four foot long as a hanging fixture. I forgot about the leads that produce shimmer maybe I should add those in to
thanks again soundwave

extrusion model 923


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Unread 03/05/2009, 05:33 PM   #135
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Soundwave,

If you are truly only consuming 132.7 Watts from the AC power then something does not add up.

Here are my calcs:

White
Volt drop per LED @ 1000mA = 3.7V
Total # of LEDs = 24
Total voltage drop = 88.8V
Wattage delivered to LEDs @ 1000mA = 88.8W
Power consumed by BuckPuck @ 85% eff. = 104.5W
Power provided by 24VDC supply assuming 85% eff. = 122.9W

Blue
Volt drop per LED @ 700mA = 3.5V
Total # of LEDs = 24
Total voltage drop = 84
Wattage delivered to LEDs @ 700mA = 58.8W
Power consumed by BuckPuck @ 85% eff. = 69.2W
Power provided by 24VDC supply assuming 85% eff. = 81.4W

Total power 204.3 Watts


So this means that either the LEDs are not dropping the voltage that the spec says that it should (unlikely), or your buckpucks are under-driving the LED strings.

Stu


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Unread 03/05/2009, 06:26 PM   #136
Soundwave
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The current across the whites is 3.63V and the blues measure 3.29V. Amperage draw on the white side is 3.48A and 2.05 on the blues.

My old PC fixture was a wannabe coralife. It looked like a coralife but was not. I got it from some guy named ebay or something.

As far as the PAR readings, the picture I used for the PC PAR was the same picture I used for the LED PAR. It was just for comparison. I do have a few pictures of before and after with the same camera settings...






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Unread 03/05/2009, 06:43 PM   #137
lynxvs
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Quote:
Originally posted by marspeed
My two cents
first I would like to say thanks soundwave your design is very easy to understand, the components you chose are easy to obtain and by simply adding buck pucks power supply's and leds you can build any size fixture you need it's modular by design I plan to add three or four leds for moon lites and use dimmer pucks with three power supply's so I have the option to turn on or off the led colors at different times, also since I have a rimless tank I plan on using an Aluminum extrusion heat sink four foot long as a hanging fixture. I forgot about the leads that produce shimmer maybe I should add those in to
thanks again soundwave

extrusion model 923

Just a note if you are going to use a four foot heatsink on a hanging fixture make sure it's light


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Unread 03/05/2009, 07:08 PM   #138
lynxvs
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Soundwave
[B]The current across the whites is 3.63V and the blues measure 3.29V. Amperage draw on the white side is 3.48A and 2.05 on the blues.

My old PC fixture was a wannabe coralife. It looked like a coralife but was not. I got it from some guy named ebay or something.

As far as the PAR readings, the picture I used for the PC PAR was the same picture I used for the LED PAR. It was just for comparison. I do have a few pictures of before and after with the same camera settings...


Are these different readings then the previous ones? Now you are using a total of 116.25 Watts..


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Unread 03/05/2009, 07:33 PM   #139
lynxvs
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I would first measure the power supply voltage then the drop across the individual strings of LEDs then measure current through each string. This should give you a better picture on whats going on.


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Unread 03/05/2009, 09:07 PM   #140
stugray
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Soundwave,

I am confused:

"The current across the whites is 3.63V and the blues measure 3.29V."

The VOLTAGE across each white should be ~3.6-3.7 Volts and 3.3-3.5 Volts.

"Amperage draw on the white side is 3.48A and 2.05 on the blues."

The Amps on the LED circuit NEEDs to be 1.0 Amps on the Whites & 0.7 Amps on the Blues.

We are obviously talking about different power supplies.

Please tell us where you are trying to measure things.
You must be measuring some things at the 24VDC power supply.

Stu


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Current Tank Info: 125 Gal. display w/80 gal mud/caulerpa sump. Basement sump w/ LED Grow Light,Gravity fed Reeflo200 skimmer w/ ORCA Recirc, DIY calc reactor & kalk stirrer. Inline plumbed 75 Gal frag/settling tank.
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Unread 03/05/2009, 09:34 PM   #141
Soundwave
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OK I'm gonna break this down as much as I can.

I do not have a kill a watt. If someone wants to mail me one, I can send you my home address. Last night, I busted out my multimeter and ran some tests...

On the 120V side, I measured something like .98 amps draw on the white power supply. I knew that getting to the blue power supply to do this would be a pain so I decided to do all of my testing on the 24V side of everything.

STOP FOR A SECOND:

120V x .98 amps = 117.6 watts

CONTINUE:

At this point, I'm working with only 24V. I tested the amperage draw on the white power supply and it read 3.48 amps. I did the same on the blues and got 2.05.

24 x 3.48 = 83.52 watts
24 x 2.05 = 49.2 watts

Stugray: I apologize for using the wrong word. I know the difference in voltage and current. Sorry.

Also, I'm pretty sure that 3.63 is between 3.6-3.7. I'm also pretty sure that 3.29 is pretty close to 3.3.

The amperage draw on the 120V side is different than the 24V side as far as calculating out wattage is concerned. This may be due to differences in inefficiencies, I don't know.

You must be talking about the amperage draw at 120V because I measured .98 amps and you claim that the draw should be 1 amp. If that is the confusion, I hope this clears that up.


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Unread 03/05/2009, 09:48 PM   #142
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lynxvs

Quote:
Just a note if you are going to use a four foot heatsink on a hanging fixture make sure it's light
.46 lb. per inch x 48 = 22.08 lb. check out my little red house you can see what i intend to hang it from


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Unread 03/05/2009, 11:28 PM   #143
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Yay!!! I can finally start making my own with your step by step instructions. Thanks!!!! You are a GOD


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Unread 03/06/2009, 10:53 AM   #144
bolis03
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Quote:
Originally posted by marspeed
My two cents
first I would like to say thanks soundwave your design is very easy to understand, the components you chose are easy to obtain and by simply adding buck pucks power supply's and leds you can build any size fixture you need it's modular by design I plan to add three or four leds for moon lites and use dimmer pucks with three power supply's so I have the option to turn on or off the led colors at different times, also since I have a rimless tank I plan on using an Aluminum extrusion heat sink four foot long as a hanging fixture. I forgot about the leads that produce shimmer maybe I should add those in to
thanks again soundwave

extrusion model 923
]

Nice find, but where can you purchase this type of heat skinks because it looks like one can only order by the thousands? I might be wrong. Do you have a source?


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Unread 03/06/2009, 11:48 AM   #145
lynxvs
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soundwave
OK I'm gonna break this down as much as I can.

I do not have a kill a watt. If someone wants to mail me one, I can send you my home address. Last night, I busted out my multimeter and ran some tests...

On the 120V side, I measured something like .98 amps draw on the white power supply. I knew that getting to the blue power supply to do this would be a pain so I decided to do all of my testing on the 24V side of everything.

STOP FOR A SECOND:

120V x .98 amps = 117.6 watts

CONTINUE:

At this point, I'm working with only 24V. I tested the amperage draw on the white power supply and it read 3.48 amps. I did the same on the blues and got 2.05.

24 x 3.48 = 83.52 watts
24 x 2.05 = 49.2 watts

Stugray: I apologize for using the wrong word. I know the difference in voltage and current. Sorry.

Also, I'm pretty sure that 3.63 is between 3.6-3.7. I'm also pretty sure that 3.29 is pretty close to 3.3.

The amperage draw on the 120V side is different than the 24V side as far as calculating out wattage is concerned. This may be due to differences in inefficiencies, I don't know.

You must be talking about the amperage draw at 120V because I measured .98 amps and you claim that the draw should be 1 amp. If that is the confusion, I hope this clears that up.

Soundwave
Unless you have whats called a "True RMS Multimeter" the AC readings will not be accurate. You did the calculations correct though.

From you readings the white look OK if I am correct in figuring out what you read... 3.48 A / 4 = 870 mA. not quite 1 A but close enough. The blues seem to have a problem 2.05 A / 4 = 512.5 mA

You might consider changing the Buck Puck to model # 3021-D-I-xxxx it has a intensity control pot that adjusts from 0-110% you can tweak this to increase your output current. Downside it costs $17.00 vs $14.00.

Can you tell me what PAR meter you are using?


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Unread 03/06/2009, 11:57 AM   #146
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It was the quantum meter. Simple on/off operation. Can't remember the model #.


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Unread 03/06/2009, 02:47 PM   #147
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When you get a chance that power supply remember?


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Unread 03/06/2009, 03:52 PM   #148
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Since a large part of the cost of this the driver circuit and pre-wired buck pucks support such a small number of LEDs, I was looking for an alternative. I found the LT3755 with a nice reference circuit shown for a 50W automotive LED headlight driver. I'm not sure this is cheaper once you factor in the supporting circuitry but it looks interesting.


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Unread 03/06/2009, 05:01 PM   #149
EBOLII
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http://www.powergatellc.com/pricing/meanwell/e.htm

nieczy check out the 60-48 may be what you are looking for


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Unread 03/06/2009, 09:10 PM   #150
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Remind me again about the power supply? What is the question?


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