Basement sump & HVAC

aravindk · 12/06/2018, 06:21 PM

Hello,

I have my sump in the unfinished part of the basement where the water heater, gas furnace and washer/dryers also co-exist. I have been using this setup for over 10 years and as you can imagine, the rust eat everything up. Couple of months ago I had to replace the washer/dryer. Next up is the furnace. It is completely rusted and I already got a warning from utility company that they are going to void the warranty because this is not really normal wear and tear. I have to replace the furnace as it is about time anyway. Now I want to understand what I can do to control and manage the rusting situation in the basement.

1. I have put an exhaust based on what I read. The exhaust pushes the air outside the house and it runs 24X7. One of the utility guys said this is a bad idea. Is it really?

2. I dont have a humidifier in there and I see many people are using it. I will probably put one there.

3. Is it a good idea to keep the sump closed? This will hopefully eliminate/minimize the water splashing.

4. Is it a good idea to build a wall around the sump?

Any other ideas/thoughts?

saveafish · 12/06/2018, 06:53 PM

I have 2 @ 150 gallon stock tanks as a sump. They both are uncovered. I don't run a exhaust fan, I just run a dehumidifier. Set at 60-65% humidity.
Note to that, you'll evaporate faster on your water.

mcgyvr · 12/06/2018, 07:08 PM

Run a dehumidifier..

Vinny Kreyling · 12/07/2018, 08:41 AM

Covers on the sump will help with evaporation & yes you need a dehumidifier.
Don't forget to empty it!

hkgar · 12/07/2018, 03:15 PM

it's winter time in Michigan. That usually means low household humidity and most people will run humidifiers to keep their house from drying out. I run 3 dehumidifiers, one in the my sump room is in the basement and one in the basement room where the well storage, water heater and furnace are and one on the second floor of the living room. My current humidity with those running is 45-50%

Kevin Guthrie · 12/08/2018, 09:51 AM

I have a similar problem. My new more efficient furnace draws air from the outside instead of from indoors; the old one needed the burner fan replaced due to rust. And I have covered the copper pipes with insulation tubes; they turned green and there were green streaks below them on the floor (and presumably in my sump!).

The culprit IMO is not evaporation, because salt doesn't evaporate. When water evaporates it leaves the salt behind.

The problem is aerosolized salt water, produced by popping bubbles, mostly from our skimmers. The micro droplets float around with the air currents and eventually settle on surfaces that can rust. Dry air might cause the water to quickly evaporate out of the droplets but I'm not sure how that ameliorates the problem and could possibly make it worse. A dehumidifier certainly makes the salty surfaces less noticeable.

Seems to me that skimmer manufacturers would do well to create a skimmer cup that allows us to send the skimmer's output outside. Maybe something air tight but with a hose or vent fitting. I have considered modifying mine to do that.

In the mean time I enclose about half of my sump to keep the aerosol from circulating too much.

aravindk · 12/08/2018, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Guthrie

I have a similar problem. My new more efficient furnace draws air from the outside instead of from indoors; the old one needed the burner fan replaced due to rust. And I have covered the copper pipes with insulation tubes; they turned green and there were green streaks below them on the floor (and presumably in my sump!).

The culprit IMO is not evaporation, because salt doesn't evaporate. When water evaporates it leaves the salt behind.

The problem is aerosolized salt water, produced by popping bubbles, mostly from our skimmers. The micro droplets float around with the air currents and eventually settle on surfaces that can rust. Dry air might cause the water to quickly evaporate out of the droplets but I'm not sure how that ameliorates the problem and could possibly make it worse. A dehumidifier certainly makes the salty surfaces less noticeable.

Seems to me that skimmer manufacturers would do well to create a skimmer cup that allows us to send the skimmer's output outside. Maybe something air tight but with a hose or vent fitting. I have considered modifying mine to do that.

In the mean time I enclose about half of my sump to keep the aerosol from circulating too much.

Good info. I have noticed some folks run an air tubing from outside the house to the Skimmer's air intake. Is it for this reason?

Looks like Dehumidifier is the way to go. What about the air exchange that I have installed? I have the exhaust almost right above the sump which draws air and pushes it outside the building. Is this of no use? One of the HVAC engineers saw this and freaked out. He said this will cause a carbon monoxide risk. Is it really?

r6justin · 12/08/2018, 05:21 PM

Dehumidifier does exactly what you're looking for but will be expensive as it eats electricity. I'd suggest building a wall if possible using greenboard and designing a sump room like a bathroom so it traps the humidity then venting outside. It's a more permanent solution that'll save a ton in the long run. Still get a dehumidifier and set at 65% or so just incase to catch any high humidity.

Honestly I wouldn't trust HVAC guys for things outside HVAC, I work with a ton and they know HVAC but thats about it. Venting to outside will create a negative pressure zone and pull air throughout the house (like window seals and such) to compensate. It won't cause any carbon monoxide risks or anything, there are tons of homes with whole house vents (usually in upstairs attic) that are designed for just this. You turn it on and it'll suck all the air out and pull from a window or such to compensate.

outssider · 12/08/2018, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aravindk

I have noticed some folks run an air tubing from outside the house to the Skimmer's air intake. Is it for this reason?

No.....this has to do with getting fresh air to the tank to lesson the effects of too much co2 in the air caused by to many humans in the room....ph is a function of co2. If you have too much co2 in the air it will lower the ph of the tank

Alex3344 · 05/05/2020, 02:56 AM

I'm on the same boat as you, but my basement has forced air heat and AC supplied by highperformancehvac.com. I have one duct in that room so I would be only adjusting the temperature from what that is getting the room temperature to.

vlangel · 05/05/2020, 12:28 PM

I have a basement sump and run a dehumidifier and a fan on low to keep air circulating.

hkgar · 05/10/2020, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlangel

I have a basement sump and run a dehumidifier and a fan on low to keep air circulating.

That's what I do also.

12/06/2018, 06:21 PM	#1
aravindk Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 488	Basement sump & HVAC Hello, I have my sump in the unfinished part of the basement where the water heater, gas furnace and washer/dryers also co-exist. I have been using this setup for over 10 years and as you can imagine, the rust eat everything up. Couple of months ago I had to replace the washer/dryer. Next up is the furnace. It is completely rusted and I already got a warning from utility company that they are going to void the warranty because this is not really normal wear and tear. I have to replace the furnace as it is about time anyway. Now I want to understand what I can do to control and manage the rusting situation in the basement. 1. I have put an exhaust based on what I read. The exhaust pushes the air outside the house and it runs 24X7. One of the utility guys said this is a bad idea. Is it really? 2. I dont have a humidifier in there and I see many people are using it. I will probably put one there. 3. Is it a good idea to keep the sump closed? This will hopefully eliminate/minimize the water splashing. 4. Is it a good idea to build a wall around the sump? Any other ideas/thoughts?

12/06/2018, 06:53 PM	#2
saveafish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: indiana Posts: 873	I have 2 @ 150 gallon stock tanks as a sump. They both are uncovered. I don't run a exhaust fan, I just run a dehumidifier. Set at 60-65% humidity. Note to that, you'll evaporate faster on your water. __________________ If it was'nt for the sea I could not see or sing ( Jimmy Buffet ) I like to glue animals to rocks and put disturbing amounts of electricity and saltwater next to each other Reefing is'nt how long you been in it. It is how deep you get in it. Current Tank Info: 400g display build, 300g sump, 75g ATO, 75g refug and a few more. Close to a 1000g. 200g mixing station.

12/06/2018, 07:08 PM	#3
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Run a dehumidifier.. __________________ Who me?

12/07/2018, 08:41 AM	#4
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	Covers on the sump will help with evaporation & yes you need a dehumidifier. Don't forget to empty it! __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

12/07/2018, 03:15 PM	#5
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	it's winter time in Michigan. That usually means low household humidity and most people will run humidifiers to keep their house from drying out. I run 3 dehumidifiers, one in the my sump room is in the basement and one in the basement room where the well storage, water heater and furnace are and one on the second floor of the living room. My current humidity with those running is 45-50% __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

12/08/2018, 09:51 AM	#6
Kevin Guthrie Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 506	I have a similar problem. My new more efficient furnace draws air from the outside instead of from indoors; the old one needed the burner fan replaced due to rust. And I have covered the copper pipes with insulation tubes; they turned green and there were green streaks below them on the floor (and presumably in my sump!). The culprit IMO is not evaporation, because salt doesn't evaporate. When water evaporates it leaves the salt behind. The problem is aerosolized salt water, produced by popping bubbles, mostly from our skimmers. The micro droplets float around with the air currents and eventually settle on surfaces that can rust. Dry air might cause the water to quickly evaporate out of the droplets but I'm not sure how that ameliorates the problem and could possibly make it worse. A dehumidifier certainly makes the salty surfaces less noticeable. Seems to me that skimmer manufacturers would do well to create a skimmer cup that allows us to send the skimmer's output outside. Maybe something air tight but with a hose or vent fitting. I have considered modifying mine to do that. In the mean time I enclose about half of my sump to keep the aerosol from circulating too much. Last edited by Kevin Guthrie; 12/08/2018 at 09:52 AM. Reason: miswording

12/08/2018, 05:21 PM	#8
r6justin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Dublin, OH Posts: 165	Dehumidifier does exactly what you're looking for but will be expensive as it eats electricity. I'd suggest building a wall if possible using greenboard and designing a sump room like a bathroom so it traps the humidity then venting outside. It's a more permanent solution that'll save a ton in the long run. Still get a dehumidifier and set at 65% or so just incase to catch any high humidity. Honestly I wouldn't trust HVAC guys for things outside HVAC, I work with a ton and they know HVAC but thats about it. Venting to outside will create a negative pressure zone and pull air throughout the house (like window seals and such) to compensate. It won't cause any carbon monoxide risks or anything, there are tons of homes with whole house vents (usually in upstairs attic) that are designed for just this. You turn it on and it'll suck all the air out and pull from a window or such to compensate.

05/05/2020, 02:56 AM	#10
Alex3344 Registered Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Netherlands Posts: 23	I'm on the same boat as you, but my basement has forced air heat and AC supplied by highperformancehvac.com. I have one duct in that room so I would be only adjusting the temperature from what that is getting the room temperature to.

05/05/2020, 12:28 PM	#11
vlangel Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,409	I have a basement sump and run a dehumidifier and a fan on low to keep air circulating. __________________ Genesis 1:20 - Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon naural nutrient macro reef that flows into a 30 gallon fuge with macros/seagrass that flows into a 20 gallon sump.