Coral wholesalers who sell to non store front businesses?

[MrineLfRlz]

Thanks for everyones replys my question was accually how much is the average "X" amount you can sell before getting into trouble if you were to become a big coral farmer?

[Jeremy Blaze]

Originally Posted by MrineLfRlz

Thanks for everyones replys my question was accually how much is the average "X" amount you can sell before getting into trouble if you were to become a big coral farmer?

Hard to say. Thats like asking how much weed you can sell before you get busted.

There are many basement sellers selling tons of stuff that never get in trouble. But it just takes one unhappy customer, or one unhappy store owner to call the IRS, the state revenue, the wholesaler, etc... to get you in trouble.

[dahenley]

i dont think the coral industry is any different the little johnny mowing lawns....
if you check your IRS 1040 (i think thats the one that asks about side jobs under or over 600$ mark????)

i think its in the 600$ range. that if your contract labor, and you make less then that, you dont have to report it, and over that you do. (should)

[MrineLfRlz]

Originally Posted by dahenley

i dont think the coral industry is any different the little johnny mowing lawns....
if you check your IRS 1040 (i think thats the one that asks about side jobs under or over 600$ mark????)

i think its in the 600$ range. that if your contract labor, and you make less then that, you dont have to report it, and over that you do. (should)

thank you for that but would it be better at taxe season if i sold more then 600 if i had a license or just to report it? in other words would i benefit at taxe season if i had a license or do i need to make alot of money before getting one to be a benefit?

[AquaticFins]

A state sales tax license is not something that will help or hurt at "tax season."

It's simply required. Your profile says you live in Missouri; there is no amount of coral you can legally sell at retail (to the consumer) without a sales tax license. Doing so is a crime.

Here's the relevant statute. It applies both to corporations and individuals. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C100-199/1440000118.HTM

You could try to make the argument that you're not engaged in the business of selling coral. If you're not attempting to make a profit, you can sell up to $3,000 worth of your coral collection (and/or other belongings; $3,000 in total) a year in MO before you're required to collect sales tax. With that said, if you have to ask the question...you're probably not going to be winning that argument with the Missouri Department of Revenue.

Here's a FAQ page from the Missouri Department of Revenue that should help answer your questions on a state level. http://dor.mo.gov/faq/business/register.php

[dahenley]

good informaion.

on a second note... if you have a business, you can claim store use or business losses, and buy things easier.
so, it may help more then you think. and in Texas, its easy to get your business and wholesale license. and cheap, so why wouldnt you.
and if you have it, you dont have to use it... it can just sit until your larger or need it. you just file the same paperwork with no purchases or losses so no ill effects.

[A.T.T.R]

Around 25 bucks per coral landed shipped from indo ( it's actualy cheaper shipping from indo then from inside the states



Also good luck finding a wholesaler that is worth anything

Issue is when some one sells to public they get boycotted by the stores
See if an Lfs will let you buy boxes from them and charge you a fee to tack on your order

[MrineLfRlz]

Originally Posted by AquaticFins

A state sales tax license is not something that will help or hurt at "tax season."

It's simply required. Your profile says you live in Missouri; there is no amount of coral you can legally sell at retail (to the consumer) without a sales tax license. Doing so is a crime.

Here's the relevant statute. It applies both to corporations and individuals. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C100-199/1440000118.HTM

You could try to make the argument that you're not engaged in the business of selling coral. If you're not attempting to make a profit, you can sell up to $3,000 worth of your coral collection (and/or other belongings; $3,000 in total) a year in MO before you're required to collect sales tax. With that said, if you have to ask the question...you're probably not going to be winning that argument with the Missouri Department of Revenue.

Here's a FAQ page from the Missouri Department of Revenue that should help answer your questions on a state level. http://dor.mo.gov/faq/business/register.php

Originally Posted by dahenley

good informaion.

on a second note... if you have a business, you can claim store use or business losses, and buy things easier.
so, it may help more then you think. and in Texas, its easy to get your business and wholesale license. and cheap, so why wouldnt you.
and if you have it, you dont have to use it... it can just sit until your larger or need it. you just file the same paperwork with no purchases or losses so no ill effects.

thanks for the heads up getting a license is going to be the best move for me i think as i get bigger then i will definitely be doing this.

[ERICinFL]

Glad I stumbled across this thread. I've considered starting a tank maintenance business to do on the side, mainly to support my tank and perhaps put a few extra bucks in my pocket. I'm fortunate enough to have a wholesaler about 15min. from my house and ORA is an hour drive South. I've done some poking around, looking for wholesalers that will sell to home based businesses. It's kind of a toss up. From what I've noticed, most places that strictly wholesale, will only sell to a traditional, storefront based business, where as the wholesalers who also sell retail, are generally a little more lenient. It's interesting to note, that the wholesale/retailers tend to charge anywhere from 15-20% more, over the straight wholesaler. I learned this after speaking to a gentleman that ran a wholesale/retail aquarium supply store. He also told me, that some businesses claiming to wholesale to home based businesses, are actually a retail in disguise. He said all they do, is mark down the retail price a few bucks. It's more of a scam than anything else, because they know how difficult it can be to find an actual wholesaler and they exploit that.

I don't know if you've made any progress with your business, as this thread was started a while ago, but just thought I'd share those little tid bits of info.

[Jeremy Blaze]

Originally Posted by ERICinFL

Glad I stumbled across this thread. I've considered starting a tank maintenance business to do on the side, mainly to support my tank and perhaps put a few extra bucks in my pocket. I'm fortunate enough to have a wholesaler about 15min. from my house and ORA is an hour drive South. I've done some poking around, looking for wholesalers that will sell to home based businesses. It's kind of a toss up. From what I've noticed, most places that strictly wholesale, will only sell to a traditional, storefront based business, where as the wholesalers who also sell retail, are generally a little more lenient. It's interesting to note, that the wholesale/retailers tend to charge anywhere from 15-20% more, over the straight wholesaler. I learned this after speaking to a gentleman that ran a wholesale/retail aquarium supply store. He also told me, that some businesses claiming to wholesale to home based businesses, are actually a retail in disguise. He said all they do, is mark down the retail price a few bucks. It's more of a scam than anything else, because they know how difficult it can be to find an actual wholesaler and they exploit that.I don't know if you've made any progress with your business, as this thread was started a while ago, but just thought I'd share those little tid bits of info.

Many brick and morter pet stores probably think a guy selling out of his basement, while getting wholesale stock is a scam as well.

[sifuentes31]

This is a great read. I have also thought of doing somthing like this but i would need start up capital and i don't have nearly enough.

[albano]

Originally Posted by sifuentes31

I have also thought of doing somthing like this but i would need start up capital and i don't have nearly enough.

When you do have 'enough'...make sure it's all 'disposable income'...cause you won't be getting it back!

[ERICinFL]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Blaze

Many brick and morter pet stores probably think a guy selling out of his basement, while getting wholesale stock is a scam as well.

You're probably correct, but as long as the basement business is legit, a business is a business.

[reefling]

the markup here in the local stores is only double what they pay for it, maybe a little more. I have considered this before but I was going to do it to obtain broodstock for farming corals. i never had enough startup capital and my main tank started to decline. it was no longer packed full with no room for new corals. I never went through with it. there was too much downside to the operation as it takes the corals you get about 1 year to become fraggable. wild corals are in a state of shock and take forever to start growing.
cherry pick the peices you want to propagate as far as acros, lps, etc... grow and frag them in your 8' tank. in a seperate stock tank or kiddie pool culture soft corals like leathers, kenya trees, etc... things noobs would buy because they drive the hobby. they grow out fast. you cannot give away kenya tree on your local forums but one fully grown and attached will go for 30$ at the lfs. you will never make any money farming acros or chalices, or hammers etc... they grow too slow. unless you have a following like tyree's latest le darth vader ice cream sundae chalace for 1500$ an eye, you will only make money selling what advanced hobbyists consider pest corals.... just culture them in a stock tank from tractor supply company or a kiddie pool. a 20l refugium gravity feeding the system should be all you need. for more ease add a topoff via a float valve and you're good to go

[aquaworldpa]

I would never suggest trying to undercut the local fish stores. I myself run a fish store, and see it far too often. People somehow getting coral wholesale accounts, and selling the coral for half what a local store has to price it to stay a float. Running an aquarium store is a very ruff buisness, every penny coming in counts. you need to be able to afford rent, and to pay your employee's, aswell as pay for the orders you make your money on. It really hurts when people just order products online or from online distributers.

[Psionicdragon]

Originally Posted by aquaworldpa

I would never suggest trying to undercut the local fish stores. I myself run a fish store, and see it far too often. People somehow getting coral wholesale accounts, and selling the coral for half what a local store has to price it to stay a float. Running an aquarium store is a very ruff buisness, every penny coming in counts. you need to be able to afford rent, and to pay your employee's, aswell as pay for the orders you make your money on. It really hurts when people just order products online or from online distributers.

People wonder why the bay area is out of LFS...well this is the reason and agree with aqua.

[olaf]

I started a maintenance company after local business asked me to take a look at their aquarium. (2004)
I took ALL the LFS maintenance business away within a year, which was a very good thing, bad business, overpriced, rude, and didn't do good maintenance on clients aquariums (dropped in snails then left and sent a bill for full maintenance, SMH) no or very little knowledge on livestock at least on saltwater.
I got all the legal docs, LLC, insurance, EIFN, sale tax number, and was able to set up with almost all distributors, manufacturers, or wholesalers unless stated that a physical storefront was needed. I actually went a little crazy 167 dry goods and 8 livestock suppliers. I now use 4 dry goods and 2 livestock suppliers.
I started building acrylic aquariums and equipment for clients. (2007)
After almost a decade of maintenance, I decided to open a storefront. Rented a place right downtown, one storefront from the main intersection.
The business plan was based on residential utilities, not good since there is a difference in billing between residential and commercial 2x to 5x more cost.
It took around 9 months to build EVERYTHING in my storefront. The tanks, racking, the plumbing, running new electrical.
The second downside was my landlord.
My livestock was delivered to me from a high-quality reputable source, very little DOA's, they would credit me immediately without question.
I got compliments on how beautiful and clean my store was, but it turned into the FREE local public aquarium. My prices were competitive with Liveaquaria but still got showroomed. I did a lot of custom orders for customers, but they didn't want to wait. They ended up driving to Petco 40 miles away. I would see them days later when their whole aquarium had ick. I carried meds but 3x the market price. They could either drive back to Petco 40 miles (2 hours), order online and wait a day or two for delivery or purchase it from me immediately. I quarantined everything for a minimum of four weeks and wouldn't put out anything that didn't look in great quality. As if I was buying it for myself.
End of 2014 I closed the store, the last month's revenue was $100. OUCH! My maintenance company had paid for and was keeping the store open. I couldn't afford to dump any more funds into it.
A couple years ago I bought a new house, the basement opens to a large driveway on the side. I rebuilt the front half of the basement for my wife's hair salon and I took the back half and started building my new storefront. It will be exclusive by appointment only. I still am the only saltwater option in 40+ miles.

[syrinx]

ANd then the local LFS or upset customer calls the zoning board and -poof

[syrinx]

That was not directed at olaf-rather the original poster.

[syrinx]

One more thing- if you get a direct account with the islands you need to order a certain $ amount to make the airfare work. But these guys are afraid to tell you they are out of something- thinking you will cancel- so a 1000$ order may be 600$ blowing the matrix for profit due to shipping. And then of course you get what has already been cherry picked, and there is no recourse for pests, DOA, etc etc etc.