New Tank Members

jreefer87 · 08/07/2018, 09:10 AM

Hello Reefers. So I have finally added my new tank mates (2 clowns) to my 55 gallon. Its been about a week now and my parameters are kind of outta wack and I have brown algae all over the place.
Nitrates: 40ppm
Nitrites: 3.0ppm
Alkalinity: 180kh
pH: 7.8
I think the Alkalinity may be okay and the pH is acceptable but I am not sure if the new additions caused the spike in Nitrites and Nitrates. I did 2 water changes (within the last few days) but no luck. I am running my skimmer with a hob unit (chemi pure blue, filter floss, filter pad, sponge and gfo in the unit, working on my sump installation in the next few weeks) Is there anything you guys can suggest to help with the spikes and the brown algae? Any help is appreciated.

Andi76 · 08/07/2018, 09:34 AM

How long has the tank been set up?

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jreefer87 · 08/07/2018, 09:54 AM

Its going on month 3 now. I have about 40 pounds of rock in it as well. Forgot to mention that.

Andi76 · 08/07/2018, 01:07 PM

I’d say iyour still in the cycle. You still have a lot of Nitrite. That needs to be gone.

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hkgar · 08/07/2018, 01:15 PM

Test for ammonia. You have nitrites and that is the phase before ammonia. Ammonia MUST be ZERO and not a bit higher.

jreefer87 · 08/07/2018, 01:40 PM

So if that is the case (it is still cycling) should I continue to feed every other day and do my weekly water changes until everything levels out to 0?

Thanks for the feedback

hkgar · 08/07/2018, 01:47 PM

Yes, you might consider using an ammonia neutralizer. Your clowns will have a tough time withe any ammonia.

I am not sure how a neutralizer will affect the cycling.

Did you read the threads on setting up a new tank? Or just dive in the deep end with out lessons.

AlSimmons · 08/07/2018, 02:03 PM

Just out of curiosity how are the Clownfish doing? Are they eating well? Three months seems like a long time for a tank to still be cycling. You might want to have your LFS or a fellow hobbyist test your water just to verify the results. (Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate)

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

jreefer87 · 08/07/2018, 02:42 PM

I did loads of research, reading and asking questions to my local marine FS so that I can be prepared to do things the right way. I did a fishless cycle and went to the LFS after about 2 months (everything was just about 0) when they told me that I needed to get fish. Understanding clowns were the best option for beginners I got the pair. They have been eating well and very active all over the tank. I've been using the Tetra 6-1 strips; so I may purchase the "master saltwater testing kit" from my LFS and see what readings they provide or maybe take some water for them to test.

hkgar · 08/07/2018, 02:53 PM

Get a salifert test kit for Nitrite and one for ammonia.
Using fish to cycle a tank is ok but it is usually done with sacrificial fish. Some just throw in a couple shrimp from the grocery store.

jreefer87 · 08/07/2018, 02:59 PM

That's exactly what I did; shrimp from the grocery. I will see if I can find those kits!

jreefer87 · 08/07/2018, 04:10 PM

Should I not worry about the diatoms? Maybe add more snails etc.

fijisrfr · 08/07/2018, 04:59 PM

Don’t worry about the diatoms & don’t add any more livestock until nitrites are at zero.

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jreefer87 · 08/07/2018, 05:04 PM

Gotcha. Will do. I wasn't planning on adding any new friends until things cleared up. Thanks for your advice.

fijisrfr · 08/07/2018, 05:06 PM

You’re welcome, and don’t forget......
The dumbest questions are the ones that don’t get asked!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Bill_Moorman · 08/07/2018, 11:17 PM

If I read correctly you are reading 3.0ppm of nitrites?

I freak out if I ever see any detectable nitrites. I would be doing large scale WCs daily to get that down. I’d cut back feeding too, as nitrites are the last product of the nitrogen cycle. Your biological filter is not large enough to handle the organic load of the fish.

Don’t mean to freak you out but I’ve never seen success with nitrites that high.

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jreefer87 · 08/08/2018, 06:10 AM

Thank you firstly for your advice. I have been doing 10% to 20% wc every other day. Would you suggest up to 50%? And I have read quite a bit that said do not sift the sand bed or rock as it may remove beneficial bacteria - in your experience has this proven to be true?

mcgyvr · 08/09/2018, 10:13 AM

There is almost no way that nitrite reading is correct in a 3 month old tank unless you are leaving some very important information out..
At 3 months if you are reading any nitrite something is seriously out of wack..

and while I'm posting...
Why are you running GFO BTW? Are you even testing for phosphates?
GFO is for those with a phosphate problem..

I'd use caution on the information given to you by the LFS..
They may be more for making money off you than educating you properly..

jreefer87 · 08/09/2018, 03:49 PM

With all do respect, I would not leave any information out if I wanted assistance and advice from those who may have experienced something similar to know how to fix the issue. That being said, I will be purchasing a different test kit and doing larger water changes to see if it has a positive impact. Along with trying an ammonia neutralizer. GFO was suggested by my LFS, in understanding it was for phosphate removal; they suggested I get it as a preventative measure.

FortyFour · 08/09/2018, 10:33 PM

Shaking my head at the GFO sale.

My favorite sources of advice are many of the stickies on this site. The BRS videos on YouTube are really good, as are the Melev Reef videos. You’ll find some quality advice from members here and will learn to find your reliable sources. Not all local fish store advice is bad, but some of the worst advice I’ve ever received has been from a LFS. Sad but true, and it is usually when you’re just getting started and don’t know better.

Don’t let this all discourage you. Those test kits are a great start, along with some patience.

thegrun · 08/12/2018, 09:54 AM

I don't think mcgyver was implying a deliberate omission of information, but I do understand his concerns over your nitrite test results; it would be pretty much unheard of to have nitrites that high after three months. When you initially set up the tank did you add anything to the tank as an ammonia source like fish food, a dead raw shrimp or pure ammonia? If not it's possible that you never really had a cycle and are just now starting your cycle with the addition of the clownfish.

ROB2005 · 08/12/2018, 10:57 AM

Have you tried a different test kit to see if you get the same reading?

hkgar · 08/12/2018, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrun

I don't think mcgyver was implying a deliberate omission of information, but I do understand his concerns over your nitrite test results; it would be pretty much unheard of to have nitrites that high after three months. When you initially set up the tank did you add anything to the tank as an ammonia source like fish food, a dead raw shrimp or pure ammonia? If not it's possible that you never really had a cycle and are just now starting your cycle with the addition of the clownfish.

He mentioned in a post that he added grocery store shrimp to start cycle.
What i don't know, and may have missed, did the OP ever have a zero reading for ammonia before adding the clowns?

Rover88 · 08/13/2018, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jreefer87

With all do respect, I would not leave any information out if I wanted assistance and advice from those who may have experienced something similar to know how to fix the issue. That being said, I will be purchasing a different test kit and doing larger water changes to see if it has a positive impact. Along with trying an ammonia neutralizer. GFO was suggested by my LFS, in understanding it was for phosphate removal; they suggested I get it as a preventative measure.

You don't actually want to prevent phosphate; its required for some corals to grow and be healthy. The issue comes once its large.

A general rule of thumb that is nice to follow is don't dose/change/effect anything you can't measure. If you don't know where your phosphates are don't try to treat high phosphates unless you have good reason to suspect your phosphates are unnaturally high. In a three month old tank I'd be surprised unless you have it leaching from your rock.

As for an ammonia neutralizer.... It is good in a pinch, but I would not want to use it in the tank. You don't want to have to treat ammonia, you want the tank to handle it through its bacterial cultures all on its own!

jreefer87 · 08/13/2018, 08:52 AM

Thank you for your feedback. And I totally get it. I did use the shimp method for about a month. When I went to my LFS to ask more questions, I told him what I had going on and he gave me something called "Cycle" by Fluval and told me to come back in about a month. Went back and my ammonia levels were in fact 0, but I had questions because after 2 months I still had high nitrates and nitrates even after 25% water changes every day. That's when he told me that I would "never get them to 0, its a myth and something people say and what you read online" - and prompted me to get 2 clowns. I got the clowns and for about a month they have been good, eating and swimming freely...but my nitrites and nitrates are still high, and diatoms are all over the place. I removed the GFO, and all of my other parameters are fine. I didn't want to "torture" the fish because of the high levels, but am not sure what to do at this point to get them down. Thanks again for all of your advice.

08/07/2018, 09:10 AM	#1
jreefer87 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 19	New Tank Members Hello Reefers. So I have finally added my new tank mates (2 clowns) to my 55 gallon. Its been about a week now and my parameters are kind of outta wack and I have brown algae all over the place. Nitrates: 40ppm Nitrites: 3.0ppm Alkalinity: 180kh pH: 7.8 I think the Alkalinity may be okay and the pH is acceptable but I am not sure if the new additions caused the spike in Nitrites and Nitrates. I did 2 water changes (within the last few days) but no luck. I am running my skimmer with a hob unit (chemi pure blue, filter floss, filter pad, sponge and gfo in the unit, working on my sump installation in the next few weeks) Is there anything you guys can suggest to help with the spikes and the brown algae? Any help is appreciated.

08/07/2018, 01:15 PM	#5
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Test for ammonia. You have nitrites and that is the phase before ammonia. Ammonia MUST be ZERO and not a bit higher. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

08/07/2018, 01:47 PM	#7
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Yes, you might consider using an ammonia neutralizer. Your clowns will have a tough time withe any ammonia. I am not sure how a neutralizer will affect the cycling. Did you read the threads on setting up a new tank? Or just dive in the deep end with out lessons. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

08/07/2018, 02:53 PM	#10
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Get a salifert test kit for Nitrite and one for ammonia. Using fish to cycle a tank is ok but it is usually done with sacrificial fish. Some just throw in a couple shrimp from the grocery store. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

08/09/2018, 10:13 AM	#18
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	There is almost no way that nitrite reading is correct in a 3 month old tank unless you are leaving some very important information out.. At 3 months if you are reading any nitrite something is seriously out of wack.. and while I'm posting... Why are you running GFO BTW? Are you even testing for phosphates? GFO is for those with a phosphate problem.. I'd use caution on the information given to you by the LFS.. They may be more for making money off you than educating you properly.. __________________ Who me?

08/07/2018, 09:34 AM	#2
Andi76 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 26	How long has the tank been set up? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

08/07/2018, 09:54 AM	#3
jreefer87 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 19	Its going on month 3 now. I have about 40 pounds of rock in it as well. Forgot to mention that.

08/07/2018, 01:07 PM	#4
Andi76 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 26	I’d say iyour still in the cycle. You still have a lot of Nitrite. That needs to be gone. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

08/07/2018, 01:40 PM	#6
jreefer87 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 19	So if that is the case (it is still cycling) should I continue to feed every other day and do my weekly water changes until everything levels out to 0? Thanks for the feedback

08/07/2018, 02:03 PM	#8
AlSimmons Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: California Posts: 2,482	Just out of curiosity how are the Clownfish doing? Are they eating well? Three months seems like a long time for a tank to still be cycling. You might want to have your LFS or a fellow hobbyist test your water just to verify the results. (Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate) http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

08/07/2018, 02:42 PM	#9
jreefer87 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 19	I did loads of research, reading and asking questions to my local marine FS so that I can be prepared to do things the right way. I did a fishless cycle and went to the LFS after about 2 months (everything was just about 0) when they told me that I needed to get fish. Understanding clowns were the best option for beginners I got the pair. They have been eating well and very active all over the tank. I've been using the Tetra 6-1 strips; so I may purchase the "master saltwater testing kit" from my LFS and see what readings they provide or maybe take some water for them to test.

08/07/2018, 02:59 PM	#11
jreefer87 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 19	That's exactly what I did; shrimp from the grocery. I will see if I can find those kits!

08/07/2018, 04:10 PM	#12
jreefer87 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 19	Should I not worry about the diatoms? Maybe add more snails etc.

08/07/2018, 04:59 PM	#13
fijisrfr Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 594	Don’t worry about the diatoms & don’t add any more livestock until nitrites are at zero. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

08/07/2018, 05:04 PM	#14
jreefer87 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 19	Gotcha. Will do. I wasn't planning on adding any new friends until things cleared up. Thanks for your advice.

08/07/2018, 05:06 PM	#15
fijisrfr Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 594	You’re welcome, and don’t forget...... The dumbest questions are the ones that don’t get asked! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

08/07/2018, 11:17 PM	#16
Bill_Moorman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Pueblo, Colorado Posts: 188	If I read correctly you are reading 3.0ppm of nitrites? I freak out if I ever see any detectable nitrites. I would be doing large scale WCs daily to get that down. I’d cut back feeding too, as nitrites are the last product of the nitrogen cycle. Your biological filter is not large enough to handle the organic load of the fish. Don’t mean to freak you out but I’ve never seen success with nitrites that high. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

08/08/2018, 06:10 AM	#17
jreefer87 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 19	Thank you firstly for your advice. I have been doing 10% to 20% wc every other day. Would you suggest up to 50%? And I have read quite a bit that said do not sift the sand bed or rock as it may remove beneficial bacteria - in your experience has this proven to be true?

08/09/2018, 03:49 PM	#19
jreefer87 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 19	With all do respect, I would not leave any information out if I wanted assistance and advice from those who may have experienced something similar to know how to fix the issue. That being said, I will be purchasing a different test kit and doing larger water changes to see if it has a positive impact. Along with trying an ammonia neutralizer. GFO was suggested by my LFS, in understanding it was for phosphate removal; they suggested I get it as a preventative measure.

08/09/2018, 10:33 PM	#20
FortyFour Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 371	Shaking my head at the GFO sale. My favorite sources of advice are many of the stickies on this site. The BRS videos on YouTube are really good, as are the Melev Reef videos. You’ll find some quality advice from members here and will learn to find your reliable sources. Not all local fish store advice is bad, but some of the worst advice I’ve ever received has been from a LFS. Sad but true, and it is usually when you’re just getting started and don’t know better. Don’t let this all discourage you. Those test kits are a great start, along with some patience.

08/12/2018, 09:54 AM	#21
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	I don't think mcgyver was implying a deliberate omission of information, but I do understand his concerns over your nitrite test results; it would be pretty much unheard of to have nitrites that high after three months. When you initially set up the tank did you add anything to the tank as an ammonia source like fish food, a dead raw shrimp or pure ammonia? If not it's possible that you never really had a cycle and are just now starting your cycle with the addition of the clownfish.

08/12/2018, 10:57 AM	#22
ROB2005 Reefing Is My Passion! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 719	Have you tried a different test kit to see if you get the same reading? __________________ If at first you don't succeed at reefing, break it down and set back up😁 Current Tank Info: 75 gallon corner overflow, 4-54W T-5 , dozen blue hermits, tiger pistol/yellow watchman goby, royal gramma, banghai and pajama cardinals

08/13/2018, 08:52 AM	#25
jreefer87 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 19	Thank you for your feedback. And I totally get it. I did use the shimp method for about a month. When I went to my LFS to ask more questions, I told him what I had going on and he gave me something called "Cycle" by Fluval and told me to come back in about a month. Went back and my ammonia levels were in fact 0, but I had questions because after 2 months I still had high nitrates and nitrates even after 25% water changes every day. That's when he told me that I would "never get them to 0, its a myth and something people say and what you read online" - and prompted me to get 2 clowns. I got the clowns and for about a month they have been good, eating and swimming freely...but my nitrites and nitrates are still high, and diatoms are all over the place. I removed the GFO, and all of my other parameters are fine. I didn't want to "torture" the fish because of the high levels, but am not sure what to do at this point to get them down. Thanks again for all of your advice.