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Old 04/18/2017, 07:35 PM   #26
Timfish
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Originally Posted by greengeco82 View Post
Not seeing the reaction i wanted. I will probably stop this experiment soon. . .
Since it takes weeks to months for corals to make new fluorescing and chromo proteins I think you should keep running this experiment a while longer. But if you're really trying to get bright colors corals make fluorescing proteins and put them above their zooxanthellae in response to light levels brighter than the zooxantheallae want.


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Old 04/19/2017, 12:50 PM   #27
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But if you're really trying to get bright colors corals make fluorescing proteins and put them above their zooxanthellae in response to light levels brighter than the zooxantheallae want.
Do you care to elaborate? With complete respect, I have no idea what you are referring to.


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Old 04/19/2017, 12:58 PM   #28
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Day 21 compare
Day 1 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]Day 21 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]
Day 1 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]Day 21 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]
Day 1 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]Day 21 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]


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Old 04/19/2017, 01:05 PM   #29
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The last coral along with a few others in my tank seems to go through a cycle of burnt tips. Its very obvious in the Day 21 picture. Its been happening 6+ months. Seems to happen about every 10 days. Then recovers nicely, then burns again. Not sure why, but NO3 is between 30 and 40.


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Old 04/19/2017, 03:56 PM   #30
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Because the corals are getting burnt tips, I'd consider trying to reduce the nutrient load. Although burnt tips are more commonly associated with low nutrient levels, higher levels might cause issues, too.


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Old 04/19/2017, 09:08 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by greengeco82 View Post
Do you care to elaborate? With complete respect, I have no idea what you are referring to.
First, you're seeing if you can make your corals brighter. It takes corals awhile to make new or additional fluorescing proteins so they look brighter. Instead of running your experiment for just a few weeks I think you should consider running it for several months.

Maybe this will help clarify why corals make thier fluorescing protiens, there are at least 4 primary purposes.

1. Photoprotection When the light is too intense for the zooxanthellae the fluorescing oragnelles are placed above them shading them, reducing the amount of light they recieve. As the light levels increase the coral makes more proteins intensifying the colors.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../408850a0.html
https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/42...et_al_2006.pdf

2. Photoenhancement. If the light is not bright enough for the zooxantheallae to work at optimum photosynthetic effeceincy the fluorescing organelles are located behind them with respect to the light source so they receive increased light levels.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../408850a0.html
https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/42...et_al_2006.pdf
(With ULNS methods starving the corals makes them look brighter because the zooxanthellae numbers are restricted reducing thier brown componet to the corals coloration.)

3. As antioxidants. The fluorescing proteins are used to neutralize the free radicals caused by photosythesis.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...s_Antioxidants

4. As an Immune response. Fluorescing proteins are used by the corals immune system to deal with parasites.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/25470724...n_tab_contents


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Old 04/19/2017, 09:21 PM   #32
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Thanks Tim Fish for the clarification. This is new info for me. cant change the intensity, but I can increase the duration of lighting. I have my halides running for 7 hours. I could try bumping that to 8 or 9 hours.


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Old 04/20/2017, 04:26 PM   #33
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Following. Please keep it up.

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Old 04/20/2017, 05:49 PM   #34
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I agree! Please do keep up the experiment!

Another thing that might be causing tip burn is Alk. For ULNS 7dkh might be a better value.

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Old 04/20/2017, 08:48 PM   #35
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Following. Please keep it up.

Thanks for the encouragement.

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[QUOTE=Wiskey;25055041]I agree! Please do keep up the experiment!

Thanks, I will.


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Old 04/21/2017, 04:35 AM   #36
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Performing PO4 experiment relating to SPS color/growth

My contribution to the discussion. Recently added (2/5/17) SPS frags. My phosphates run roughly .5 (Hanna) and nitrates 50 (Salifert). no algae issues. My Alk has always run high (10-11) (Hanna)
IMG_2799.jpgIMG_3030.jpgIMG_3603.jpg


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Old 04/21/2017, 04:36 AM   #37
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Continued:IMG_2992.jpgIMG_3598.jpgIMG_2748.jpgIMG_3600.jpg


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Old 04/21/2017, 04:57 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timfish View Post
First, you're seeing if you can make your corals brighter. It takes corals awhile to make new or additional fluorescing proteins so they look brighter. Instead of running your experiment for just a few weeks I think you should consider running it for several months.

Maybe this will help clarify why corals make thier fluorescing protiens, there are at least 4 primary purposes.

1. Photoprotection When the light is too intense for the zooxanthellae the fluorescing oragnelles are placed above them shading them, reducing the amount of light they recieve. As the light levels increase the coral makes more proteins intensifying the colors.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../408850a0.html
https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/42...et_al_2006.pdf

2. Photoenhancement. If the light is not bright enough for the zooxantheallae to work at optimum photosynthetic effeceincy the fluorescing organelles are located behind them with respect to the light source so they receive increased light levels.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../408850a0.html
https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/42...et_al_2006.pdf
(With ULNS methods starving the corals makes them look brighter because the zooxanthellae numbers are restricted reducing thier brown componet to the corals coloration.)

3. As antioxidants. The fluorescing proteins are used to neutralize the free radicals caused by photosythesis.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...s_Antioxidants

4. As an Immune response. Fluorescing proteins are used by the corals immune system to deal with parasites.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/25470724...n_tab_contents


Now my question is what method would produce the brighter colors? Protector enhancement?






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Old 04/21/2017, 06:41 AM   #39
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Now my question is what method would produce the brighter colors? Protector enhancement?






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Yes. In theory, a combination of high light, with generous uv component (corals really wanna protect symbiont from that) and low nutrients to keep the symbiont from growing much will give you lots of fluorescent proteins, and not much brown symbiont to dull the color.
But it's debatable whether that is actually good for the coral host, even in theory - set aside the practical difficulty of balancing the tightrope.

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Old 04/28/2017, 02:39 PM   #40
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Day 31
Day 1 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]Day 31 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]
Day 1 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]Day 31 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]
Day 1 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]Day 31 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]

Since the last update, I increased lighting from 6 hours to 8 hours a day. When I had low nutrients in the past, everything would bleach out. Now corals seem to be taking the increased lighting with no ill effects.


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Old 04/28/2017, 03:53 PM   #41
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It's interesting that you can increase the lighting. I'll be interested to see how this shapes up.


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Old 04/28/2017, 06:49 PM   #42
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Day 31



Since the last update, I increased lighting from 6 hours to 8 hours a day. When I had low nutrients in the past, everything would bleach out. Now corals seem to be taking the increased lighting with no ill effects.

This paper argues precisely that P out of balance too low makes coral more susceptible to bleaching. Cool that you seem to be confirming this in a tank setting.


"P starvation reduces the photosynthetic capacity (Fv/Fm < 0.5) and renders the corals susceptible to heat/light stress. Alternatively, P starvation might result when zooxanthellae growing under nutrient replete conditions are deprived of P while nitrogen levels remain high."


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Old 04/29/2017, 07:49 PM   #43
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This paper argues precisely that P out of balance too low makes coral more susceptible to bleaching. Cool that you seem to be confirming this in a tank setting.


"P starvation reduces the photosynthetic capacity (Fv/Fm < 0.5) and renders the corals susceptible to heat/light stress. Alternatively, P starvation might result when zooxanthellae growing under nutrient replete conditions are deprived of P while nitrogen levels remain high."
Very interesting! What would happen in high P04, low N03 water? That what I got in my tank, nitrates undetectable (<0.25ppm), phosphates 0.09ppm (Hanna ULR).


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Old 05/06/2017, 03:44 PM   #44
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Day 39 comparison

Day 1 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]Day 39 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]
Day 1 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]Day 39 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]
Day 1 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]Day 39 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]


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Old 05/06/2017, 03:46 PM   #45
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Overall a lot of growth. No noticeable color change IMO. Pics are taken under 2 x SE 250w, 14k Hamilton, halides. My frag rack is getting heavy, so I think its time to sell them off.


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