Does Instant Ocean Lower the PH?

[Amazon4]

Hi,

We've found the Instant Ocean lowers our PH right out of the box. We have to raise it before we add it to our tank.

Our waters PH is 8.7 to start. Then we add the salt mix, and it drops to mid 7's. Is this normal?

So, to use this stuff we add calcium and raise the PH. Is there not a better way? Is there a better mix, more suited to a reef tank, to use?

[serpentman]

It shouldn't lower it too much. You might try a reef mix. However, IMO, your pH is way too high. I would shoot for 8.2-8.4

[David Grigor]

Are you saying the RO water before adding the mix is 8.7 ? or the tank PH is 8.7 ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

To Reef Central

Hey Amazon4, we live in the same town!

FWIW, the pH that you get after aerating new salt water depends on the alkalinity in it (IO has plenty) and the CO2 in your home air. If after mixing the pH is too low, and the pH measurement is accurate, blame your air.

This article has more:


Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

[Amazon4]

My bad..the starting water is 8.7. Our tank water is 8.05 (working on raising it).

[Amazon4]

Hi Randy,

We got to hear your talk at the BRS meeting a couple of weeks ago. On your advice we added an air stone to the tank. It has helped - thanks!

But what we found odd was that if we take a bucket of FW at 8.7 and add IO, the PH immediately drops. Is that the chemistry of the OI? Or do you think it's the air?

We got a new digital PH meter, so we're confident of our readings.

Our RODI shows up today. Looking forward to using RODI water (yes...guilty of using tap water from Arlington...)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The pH of the mix should be lower than 8.7, so the effect you see is normal. When you get it, the pH of the RO/DI water may still read high (mine does, although I'm not sure if that is real or an artifact of the very large difficulties associated with measuring the pH of very pure water), but that has little effect on the pH after mixing with salt and aerating.

[watdachuck]

I know this thread is ancient, but I am seeing the same problem with IO Reef Crystals.

Tank pH: 7.85 (ATO w/ Kalk)

IO WC after 24 hrs aerating pH: 7.80

I just began using a buffer with my water changes, since I really do not like adding much directly to my main tank.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

To Reef Central

It is not the salt, but rather the CO2 level in your home which is determining the pH of the salt mix. Aside from the CO2 level, only the alkalinity matters and IO has plenty of alkalinity.

Don't add buffer to new IO. The alkalinity will get too high and you'll potentially precipitate calcium carbonate.

FWIW, buffers are not a good way to deal with pH problems.

Is your tank pH too low?

This has more:

Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

[LordElephant]

I do this test outside and the same thing happens, so it's not the air in the home.


As soon as I add IO salt mix to my RODI my PH drops from 8.4 to 7.0. I have nothing artificial in my tank its all that dry white rock and dead hard corals from other people in the areas tanks. Sand bottom.

Why is the IO salt mix instantly dropping our PH to 7?

My results were the exact same inside the house and outside.

[LordElephant]

To add, after a day of sitting with an airstone and being spun by a powerhead the PH sits at 7.38 which is what my tank runs at also.

I'm having issues keeping anything alive that wasn't captive bred. This is what my LFS told me my issue is. Too low of PH.

Yes im new to SW tanks.

[Sk8r]

In salt water, ph jumps all over the place, and is not the best measure of water comfort. In the wild ocean, calcium is constantly dissolving out and being sucked up by living things. If you hit a balance at about 420 calcium, 8.3 alkalinity (the thing to track instead of ph, and one of the easiest chemical tests to run: Salifert is a good brand), and about 1300 (1200 is too low) magnesium. These 3 readings determine water comfort. Alk and ph are weirdly related, but alk is far more stable and doesn't rise and fall. I've never used a doser. I just put calcium in my autotopoff reservoir, test to be sure the magnesium is spot on, and add dkh buffer until I hit 8.3, and once i do, it will hold steady (if you have corals using calcium you have to keep feeding it in via the topoff with a product called kalk, which is basically calcium powder. Since it will only dissolve 2 teaspoons per gallon of fresh ro.di water, it stays stable at that strength. The magnesium will hold the alk steady. So if you just hit those marks, your water will be stable until the magnesium gets used up to below 1200. Add more magnesium, readjust the 2 other elements, and you're golden for another while, since magnesium depletes very slowly. An autotopoff is a must, to keep your salinity steady, and you can use it to feed in calcium along with your fresh water topoff.

[LordElephant]

My story of PH chasing started 2 months ago when the bottom of my tank had a seal break and I woke up to half of the water throughout the room.

Grabbed buckets, water fill tanks etc and got them to temp and poured as much tank water as was left into them as i could. lights, heaters, air pumps and power heads all moved to create a non stagnant pool in each container for the rocks and fish.

Found a tank in stock at Petco and had a new one on the stand and filling within 6 hours of my initial find of flood.

Nightmare begins.
Anemones all die off by end of first month.
Snails and hermits are all dying 1-2 per day.
Algae is turning to red slime
Hair algae that is white is growing off everything.

I've been using the same things everywhere except one stupid item.
API Proper PH 8.2 recommended by the LFS because 'that must be why everything else is dying when all the other tests are great'

I feel like i've toxified my tank with that product and I dont know what to do now.

My survivors at this point include:
Clarkii pair.
Coral Banded Shrimp.
Snowflake Eel.
Engineer Goby.
Spotted Watchman.

Added since incident are 6 red leg hermits and 3 sailfin mollies which have been casually helping with some of the algae but of course not enough to really help. Sort of like having a 2 yr old help with chores right?

I cannot seem to get healthy algae growth again and I'm pulling my hair out.

Everything I have is internal or hang on back equipment.
Seachem Tidal 110.
Aquamaxx HOB 1.5 skimmer
Eheim Skim 350
Hygger powerhead.
A heater on each side of tank.

80 lbs - Nature's Ocean Bio-Activ Live Aragonite Saltwater Aquarium Sand, Natural White #1

Prior to the leak there was 120 lbs of rock in there for everyone to have hiding spots.

Now there is maybe 50. I was afraid that perhaps the tank had too much weight and thats why the seal broke?



Is my best bet to take it all out. buy a small tank to put the livestock in for a while.
Bleach all my rocks and put new sand bed down?
Vinegar or bleach all the equipment and start anew?


I was never able to get an angel or dwarf angel to survive. they'd always die within a week, again they kept telling me my PH level was too low. I'd drip acclimate the fish over 3 days in some instances to try and get them used to my water but that didnt seem to help either. 3-5 days later and they'd be gone.

Is my issue PH levels is that why everything is gross now in the replacement tank? Is PH why fish and inverts all died off? I do not keep corals as my tank when it leaked was only 7 months into its life.

I've poured a bottle of BioSpira in 3 days ago and it seems like the spread of the brown and red has slowed. Brown spread appears to have stopped altogether. that red slime is another beast I don't know how to tackle at this point. Seems overwhelming.

[Sk8r]

I'd just forget PH, which for the above reasons is pretty useless in saltwater. You had to move a tank with inhabitants and no cycle, which at least started with old sand and rock, and your red crud is just cyanobacteria, which is kind of normal (actually a sign of normality) in a developing tank. If you could have held all your livestock in a pure saltwater tank, bare glass, with no rock or sand for about 2 weeks, your rock and sand might have set up properly and cycled in that time (an established rock-sand tank can do that in a move). It's still not too late to do that. Some inverts and corals can survive a cycle---um, since you're new, let me explain cycle---which means your tank simply grows enough bacteria to process the waste inherent in old sand and rock. It will produce a lethal level of ammonia (able to kill most fish and inverts) and then settle down to process it without doing that, because the bacteria type has gotten to be a bacteria that eats up ammonia and waste. Adding something like Dr Tims could help in this stage, but get an ammonia test if you are going to make it cycle, and once you see ammonia, you ARE in process, and then once you DON'T see more ammonia, you are cycled and your tank is ready for occupants. You should move everybody back at the rate of about 2 critters every week until everybody is home again. Even so you can expect cyanobacteria and other pests, but don't worry about them until you have got that tank through the first 2 months of its new life.

Pulling everything to a plain glass tank and provoking a cycle is an extreme fix, but it may be the one that will work.