Go Live or Dead??

andreasch · 03/09/2018, 12:34 AM

Hello guys..
i got a new question for you.

although am sure more people asked this before, and i read many articles about this, but i still would like to see your answers.
I am making my first ever reef tank. So am totally new to this.
I want to find out what is the best way for a beginner to go with the rocks. To use live or dead rock.
I know with live rock ill have less parameters peaks, my tank will cycle better, it look nicer, i can add fish faster, but the reason i hesitate to decide the live rock without a question (except from price), is all these bad pests and hitchhikers someone can get from live rock and which are not reef safe and have to be removed.
As i stated before i am new to the hobby so i dont know how easy is to handle these issues and what you can do about them.
So what is easier for a beginner after all? To go with dead rock and handle all these params up and downs issues and the long process of cycling, or go with live rock and handle pests and hitchhikers?
Thank you

Crowed · 03/09/2018, 01:36 AM

I would go with live rock, or at least put some live with dead rock together(50:50?). It take a lot of time for dead rock to become live. And its not only about cycling and nitryfing bacteria, with life rock you will get many good things and marine organisms in your tank

Xxero · 03/09/2018, 01:43 AM

In my opinion, I would go with dead. As you mentioned, the unwanted pests such as Aiptasia, etc. can dwell deep within the caverns of Live Rock, and only show their faces way down the road. Then you will be spending your time and money trying to eradicate such things.

I guess it all depends on your patience. If I were to do it all over again, I would definitely go with dry rock. Aiptasia, Flatworms, Vermetid Snails, etc. can be avoided this way.

Crowed · 03/09/2018, 02:07 AM

But you can get pest later on too, there is always a risk. I never got aiptasia with lr but i got them when i put some new corals in 2 years old tank. Kill few what i was able to see with citric acid injection and put peppermint shrimp in tank, and i never seen it again

Jekerry · 03/09/2018, 07:42 AM

What we did as beginners and it has worked good is get live rock from a trusted source. I wasn’t ready for the full live experience with crabs and such hitchhiking in, but wanted the good stuff. LFS to the rescue. They had live rock that had the bacteria and coralline algae and such, but not as adventurous as the rock brought straight from the sea. Maybe next time I will try that, but this was a little gentler of a start.

Jane

afroshacks · 03/09/2018, 09:23 AM

As stated it's all about your patience level. Imo it doesn't take long to cycle. Mine cycled in 5 weeks with dead shrimp starter. Use that time to plan your stocking strategy and how you want your rocks to set for when or if you plan on getting coral. I've always used live/dead rock mix in the past. This time I had about 150 pounds of stored rock from my last tank that I bleached and to be honest so far I don't think I'll ever do it any other way again. I know my system is starting off pristine with nothing except what I want in it. Not knocking the live rock start up by any means because some LFS will cure live rock in a separate system. If this is the case you should be fairly sure you're not getting any critters short of bacteria.
Either way just be sure to QT all new fish arrivals and I just started Bayer dipping all corals coming in. Just remember critters will more than likely make their way into your system at some point but you can try to thwart them somewhat.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

oceanfan913 · 03/09/2018, 09:47 AM

Dead rock was my preference as well. Didn't take long for it to become live and gave me a "ramp up" time to get use to all the new testing and watching my tank take the next step forward before any livestock was bought.

tmccaffery · 03/09/2018, 10:37 AM

If you want diversity than go live rock from Tampa bay saltwater period. I did both ways and the one with Live Rock looks way better.

Uncle99 · 03/09/2018, 12:33 PM

As Xxero said, they have some great dead live rock these days and since using only dry rock, never had another bad hitchhiker stressed out day. Most of the live rock in my Area is just old crap someone through into some water for months. Then all the hitchhikers people return go into this vat and hide in your rock....till you buy it.....and the cycle continues...

LauraGreenImp · 03/09/2018, 02:31 PM

Well, all the more experienced folks seem to recommend dead rock, or mix. I only have 7yrs in. But I loved the live rock with which I started my tank. Feather dusters, candy cane coral(!) - just two of the cool things that came w it. BUT: I did go through an aiptasia invasion. Solved that quickly w Matted File Fish, but if you want to keep one of those guys, you have to be careful about which corals you choose. My MFF eats acans and clams. I found this out the hard way.

That said, I *really* like the MFF, and, if I could do it over again, I wouldn’t change it.

(getting ready to begin vertical aquascaping, will NOT be using LR for that - fish/corals too healthy - don’t wanna risk disease)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

MondoBongo · 03/10/2018, 08:29 AM

when i do a new aquascape i now prefer to go with mostly dead rock, and use a little bit of a live rock to seed it.

why is this? two main reasons:

1. dry rock is usually cheaper than live rock
2. it's far easier to work with. i like to pre-build some of the foundational shapes that i will have in my tank. i try to make them big enough that they interlock well and securely, but small enough that they can moved/removed if needed. so when you're cementing them together, or testing out your stacking, it's just easier to work with dry rock.

i also love the pick. i always check the rock bins any time i am my LFS, and if i see a piece of rock that i like, i'll buy it and hang on to it until i can use it somewhere. finding that perfect piece of rock is always fun, and a little easier if the rocks are dry.

Cancun · 03/10/2018, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreasch

Hello guys..
i got a new question for you.

although am sure more people asked this before, and i read many articles about this, but i still would like to see your answers.
I am making my first ever reef tank. So am totally new to this.
I want to find out what is the best way for a beginner to go with the rocks. To use live or dead rock.
I know with live rock ill have less parameters peaks, my tank will cycle better, it look nicer, i can add fish faster, but the reason i hesitate to decide the live rock without a question (except from price), is all these bad pests and hitchhikers someone can get from live rock and which are not reef safe and have to be removed.
As i stated before i am new to the hobby so i dont know how easy is to handle these issues and what you can do about them.
So what is easier for a beginner after all? To go with dead rock and handle all these params up and downs issues and the long process of cycling, or go with live rock and handle pests and hitchhikers?
Thank you

Hi there!!!! My vote is for live rock....I bought one pound of live rock per one gallon of water when I started my tank several years ago...at the time I think I paid 6-10 bucks a pound at my LFS. It was worth it for me anyway.

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk

Baxterdawg1974 · 03/13/2018, 05:31 AM

Hi, i am an advocate for dead rock and seeding pods and worms after your cycle. If you use live sand and a bottle of starter bacteria, will become live without the pests

jlmawp · 03/13/2018, 09:52 AM

Live rock offers all kinds of awesome diversity to your tank that you simply won't be able to accomplish use dead rock and then ordering critters from a store. The diversity in that case isn't even close to what you'll get with mature rock. Also, if you go live rock, you will have little to no cycle.

This is mainly personal preference, but I really don't have as much interesting in fish as I do for all of the hundreds of tiny things that pop up on my live rock, even years after I got it.

jlmawp · 03/13/2018, 09:52 AM

Whoops, double post.

Imaexpat2 · 03/13/2018, 10:19 AM

I would highly recommend going with dry rock...it has no pest hitch hikers! A ounce of prevention beats the hell out of several pounds of cure and is a lot cheaper too. You can always buy a couple of small pieces of live rock and QT it to make sure its free of nasties then add to your tank. If worse comes to worse your snails will likely have some coraline algae on them and so will any coral frags you add and eventually you will get the pretty purple stuff and benefical pods and such.

Does it take a little longer to get the results your looking for? Why yes of course it does. But if you got into this hobby for instant gratification...you picked the wrong hobby for that!!! Nothing good happens fast in this hobby as you will eventually discover. Its a journey not a race...slow and steady beats fast and furious 8 days a week.

ramseynb · 03/14/2018, 03:07 AM

It depends. If it’s your first tank, spend the money and get some really nice live rock. Not the live rock that looks like dry rock that’s been soaking in salt water, but FRESH live rock. Check out Tampa Bay Saltwater.

When I first got into this hobby a decade ago, I ordered a box of Fiji LR from Live Aquaria that was super fresh. I spent the next 1-2 months just looking at the rock and seeing new forms of life emerge and grow. It was something that got me hooked.

With that said, the last few tanks I’ve done have been started with dry rock and then just seeded with some LR and even just my snail’s shells and coral frag plugs or rock base. My latest build has been this way. It’s been about 3 months and I’m starting to see feather dusters and coralline.

One of these days I’m going to do a build and use Tampa Bay Saltwater live rock! I’ve always wanted to but I’ve had so much dry rock from previous builds, I just couldn’t justify it. I wish they sold a “seed” package that just contained 5-10lbs of small rock.

rjjr1963 · 03/14/2018, 02:30 PM

I started one tank with live rock from the LFS and today it's covered in beautiful red coraline and there is all kinds of life forms. The other tank I started with dry rock and can't get a bit of coraline to grow. After a year the dry rock is only beginning to show a decent diversity of life. I definitely think the risk is worth the reward.

FishheadJoe · 03/14/2018, 02:37 PM

Why not start with all dead rock and live sand?

ramseynb · 03/14/2018, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishheadJoe

Why not start with all dead rock and live sand?

Live sand is a rip off IMO. The only life there might be is bacteria. Well, that’s if you’re talking about the bagged live sand. If you’re talking about fresh live sand harvested from the ocean, that might be a different deal. There used to be stuff called “garf grunge” that you could buy that was basically seeded sand and rubble with all kinds of critters.

Still, if you’re going to do that, may as well just buy LR IMO.

Timfish · 03/14/2018, 08:24 PM

Not all live rock is the same. If you're talking about dry rock that has been kept in saltwater and had bacteria added. You can do that yourself for a lot less. If you're talking about quality wild live rock or quality maricultured live rock I'd say it's essential. There's stuff, especially cryptic sponges that process dissolved organic carbon much faster than bacteria, you can't get any other way that is important to establishing a MATURE reef system.

AS far as pests, over the 30 years I've been using live rock all the pests combined I've found have not caused the problems BTAs have caused. You do need to quarintine wild or maricultured live rock just like everything else.

03/09/2018, 12:34 AM	#1
andreasch Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 25	Go Live or Dead?? Hello guys.. i got a new question for you. although am sure more people asked this before, and i read many articles about this, but i still would like to see your answers. I am making my first ever reef tank. So am totally new to this. I want to find out what is the best way for a beginner to go with the rocks. To use live or dead rock. I know with live rock ill have less parameters peaks, my tank will cycle better, it look nicer, i can add fish faster, but the reason i hesitate to decide the live rock without a question (except from price), is all these bad pests and hitchhikers someone can get from live rock and which are not reef safe and have to be removed. As i stated before i am new to the hobby so i dont know how easy is to handle these issues and what you can do about them. So what is easier for a beginner after all? To go with dead rock and handle all these params up and downs issues and the long process of cycling, or go with live rock and handle pests and hitchhikers? Thank you

03/09/2018, 01:43 AM	#3
Xxero Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 1,054	In my opinion, I would go with dead. As you mentioned, the unwanted pests such as Aiptasia, etc. can dwell deep within the caverns of Live Rock, and only show their faces way down the road. Then you will be spending your time and money trying to eradicate such things. I guess it all depends on your patience. If I were to do it all over again, I would definitely go with dry rock. Aiptasia, Flatworms, Vermetid Snails, etc. can be avoided this way. __________________ "You Can Lead A Gift Horse To Water... But You Can't Make Him Look In Your Mouth." Current Tank Info: 65g Mixed Reef Display - 15g Macro Algae/Refugium - 40b Sump

03/09/2018, 09:23 AM	#6
afroshacks Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 51	As stated it's all about your patience level. Imo it doesn't take long to cycle. Mine cycled in 5 weeks with dead shrimp starter. Use that time to plan your stocking strategy and how you want your rocks to set for when or if you plan on getting coral. I've always used live/dead rock mix in the past. This time I had about 150 pounds of stored rock from my last tank that I bleached and to be honest so far I don't think I'll ever do it any other way again. I know my system is starting off pristine with nothing except what I want in it. Not knocking the live rock start up by any means because some LFS will cure live rock in a separate system. If this is the case you should be fairly sure you're not getting any critters short of bacteria. Either way just be sure to QT all new fish arrivals and I just started Bayer dipping all corals coming in. Just remember critters will more than likely make their way into your system at some point but you can try to thwart them somewhat. Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk __________________ Darn Spanking tooting, Im a reefer! Current Tank Info: 46G Bowfront, 10G Fuge, AquaC Remora S HOB Skimmer, 50pnds LR, 1" Sand Bed

03/09/2018, 02:31 PM	#10
LauraGreenImp Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Nashville Posts: 131	Well, all the more experienced folks seem to recommend dead rock, or mix. I only have 7yrs in. But I loved the live rock with which I started my tank. Feather dusters, candy cane coral(!) - just two of the cool things that came w it. BUT: I did go through an aiptasia invasion. Solved that quickly w Matted File Fish, but if you want to keep one of those guys, you have to be careful about which corals you choose. My MFF eats acans and clams. I found this out the hard way. That said, I really like the MFF, and, if I could do it over again, I wouldn’t change it. (getting ready to begin vertical aquascaping, will NOT be using LR for that - fish/corals too healthy - don’t wanna risk disease) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro __________________ No glass box turns into a beautiful reef tank quickly. Current Tank Info: 150gT Mixed Reef - help me trap/remove/destroy my hateful Molly Miller Blennys!

03/10/2018, 08:29 AM	#11
MondoBongo Obligate Feeder Obsessed Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 4,061	when i do a new aquascape i now prefer to go with mostly dead rock, and use a little bit of a live rock to seed it. why is this? two main reasons: 1. dry rock is usually cheaper than live rock 2. it's far easier to work with. i like to pre-build some of the foundational shapes that i will have in my tank. i try to make them big enough that they interlock well and securely, but small enough that they can moved/removed if needed. so when you're cementing them together, or testing out your stacking, it's just easier to work with dry rock. i also love the pick. i always check the rock bins any time i am my LFS, and if i see a piece of rock that i like, i'll buy it and hang on to it until i can use it somewhere. finding that perfect piece of rock is always fun, and a little easier if the rocks are dry. __________________ [Citation Needed] "You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right" - xkcd Current Tank Info: A rectangular shaped money pit.

03/09/2018, 01:36 AM	#2
Crowed Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 244	I would go with live rock, or at least put some live with dead rock together(50:50?). It take a lot of time for dead rock to become live. And its not only about cycling and nitryfing bacteria, with life rock you will get many good things and marine organisms in your tank

03/09/2018, 02:07 AM	#4
Crowed Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 244	But you can get pest later on too, there is always a risk. I never got aiptasia with lr but i got them when i put some new corals in 2 years old tank. Kill few what i was able to see with citric acid injection and put peppermint shrimp in tank, and i never seen it again

03/09/2018, 07:42 AM	#5
Jekerry Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Rochester NY Posts: 205	What we did as beginners and it has worked good is get live rock from a trusted source. I wasn’t ready for the full live experience with crabs and such hitchhiking in, but wanted the good stuff. LFS to the rescue. They had live rock that had the bacteria and coralline algae and such, but not as adventurous as the rock brought straight from the sea. Maybe next time I will try that, but this was a little gentler of a start. Jane

03/09/2018, 09:47 AM	#7
oceanfan913 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 55	Dead rock was my preference as well. Didn't take long for it to become live and gave me a "ramp up" time to get use to all the new testing and watching my tank take the next step forward before any livestock was bought.

03/09/2018, 10:37 AM	#8
tmccaffery Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 170	If you want diversity than go live rock from Tampa bay saltwater period. I did both ways and the one with Live Rock looks way better.

03/09/2018, 12:33 PM	#9
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	As Xxero said, they have some great dead live rock these days and since using only dry rock, never had another bad hitchhiker stressed out day. Most of the live rock in my Area is just old crap someone through into some water for months. Then all the hitchhikers people return go into this vat and hide in your rock....till you buy it.....and the cycle continues...

03/13/2018, 05:31 AM	#13
Baxterdawg1974 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 118	Hi, i am an advocate for dead rock and seeding pods and worms after your cycle. If you use live sand and a bottle of starter bacteria, will become live without the pests

03/13/2018, 09:52 AM	#14
jlmawp Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 595	Live rock offers all kinds of awesome diversity to your tank that you simply won't be able to accomplish use dead rock and then ordering critters from a store. The diversity in that case isn't even close to what you'll get with mature rock. Also, if you go live rock, you will have little to no cycle. This is mainly personal preference, but I really don't have as much interesting in fish as I do for all of the hundreds of tiny things that pop up on my live rock, even years after I got it.

03/13/2018, 09:52 AM	#15
jlmawp Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 595	Whoops, double post. Last edited by jlmawp; 03/13/2018 at 11:34 AM.

03/13/2018, 10:19 AM	#16
Imaexpat2 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chagos Arch. Posts: 474	I would highly recommend going with dry rock...it has no pest hitch hikers! A ounce of prevention beats the hell out of several pounds of cure and is a lot cheaper too. You can always buy a couple of small pieces of live rock and QT it to make sure its free of nasties then add to your tank. If worse comes to worse your snails will likely have some coraline algae on them and so will any coral frags you add and eventually you will get the pretty purple stuff and benefical pods and such. Does it take a little longer to get the results your looking for? Why yes of course it does. But if you got into this hobby for instant gratification...you picked the wrong hobby for that!!! Nothing good happens fast in this hobby as you will eventually discover. Its a journey not a race...slow and steady beats fast and furious 8 days a week.

03/14/2018, 03:07 AM	#17
ramseynb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: New Braunfels, TX Posts: 630	It depends. If it’s your first tank, spend the money and get some really nice live rock. Not the live rock that looks like dry rock that’s been soaking in salt water, but FRESH live rock. Check out Tampa Bay Saltwater. When I first got into this hobby a decade ago, I ordered a box of Fiji LR from Live Aquaria that was super fresh. I spent the next 1-2 months just looking at the rock and seeing new forms of life emerge and grow. It was something that got me hooked. With that said, the last few tanks I’ve done have been started with dry rock and then just seeded with some LR and even just my snail’s shells and coral frag plugs or rock base. My latest build has been this way. It’s been about 3 months and I’m starting to see feather dusters and coralline. One of these days I’m going to do a build and use Tampa Bay Saltwater live rock! I’ve always wanted to but I’ve had so much dry rock from previous builds, I just couldn’t justify it. I wish they sold a “seed” package that just contained 5-10lbs of small rock. __________________ How do you make an octopus laugh? Ten tickles!

03/14/2018, 02:30 PM	#18
rjjr1963 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Nebraska/Missouri Posts: 770	I started one tank with live rock from the LFS and today it's covered in beautiful red coraline and there is all kinds of life forms. The other tank I started with dry rock and can't get a bit of coraline to grow. After a year the dry rock is only beginning to show a decent diversity of life. I definitely think the risk is worth the reward. __________________ 72x24x16 115 gallon under construction Current Tank Info: 40 gallon reef

03/14/2018, 02:37 PM	#19
FishheadJoe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: MA Posts: 26	Why not start with all dead rock and live sand?

03/14/2018, 08:24 PM	#21
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	Not all live rock is the same. If you're talking about dry rock that has been kept in saltwater and had bacteria added. You can do that yourself for a lot less. If you're talking about quality wild live rock or quality maricultured live rock I'd say it's essential. There's stuff, especially cryptic sponges that process dissolved organic carbon much faster than bacteria, you can't get any other way that is important to establishing a MATURE reef system. AS far as pests, over the 30 years I've been using live rock all the pests combined I've found have not caused the problems BTAs have caused. You do need to quarintine wild or maricultured live rock just like everything else. __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek