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Old 07/12/2017, 06:13 AM   #2651
WheatyBits12
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Is the brown Corpse Bride Graciliara the same thing that is referred to as Ogo elsewhere?


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Old 07/12/2017, 07:36 AM   #2652
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I like your plan. Benthic fish are cool to watch, but if they're all hiding, not much to watch. It's nice to have the upper layers of the water column active too. The grammas and chromis will provide additional colors to the view too.


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Old 07/12/2017, 08:03 AM   #2653
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I don't think so, WheatyBits12. The stuff I've seen referred to as ogo is red. This stuff is dark brown, almost black. When it first popped up in my tank, it was pretty creepy looking, like something in a Tim Burton film. At first I thought it was some exotic new species, then I saw it for sale as grasilaria. So I think it's just a brown grasilaria, common in south Florida.


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Old 07/12/2017, 08:14 AM   #2654
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I agree. I love the little guys, Chasmodes. They're just hard to see unless you're close to the tank. I look forward to having more fish that are visible from my ideal perch on the couch. Right now my fish load is rather low and a bit less entertaining, but that's good for helping me to focus on getting the ecosystem ready and the plants figured out.


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Old 07/12/2017, 02:46 PM   #2655
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I discovered an orange size sponge on the outside of my flow-through wall. It was the white kind I have several of already. I decided to remove it because it competed with other sponges that are more desirable. With a finite amount of sponge food available, I didn't want an invisible sponge to compete with the others. And given it was the largest sponge in the tank, it was a major competitor. It is my hope that this will make more sponge food available to the others.

It's pretty ironic to remove something I very much want to thrive, but I think it will ultimately benefit my 'display' sponges. I'll call it a 'Simulated Angel Fish Grazing Event'.


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Current Tank Info: 180g Caribbean Biotope Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 07/13/2017, 06:34 AM   #2656
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I'm always a proponent for more gramma, despite what most local fish stores have told me I've always noticed them to be much happier in a group plus my tank is 150 gallons so I'm sure that helps aggression issues. So much so that my last gramma stopped eating and went into hiding when his girlies passed away of ich, a story for another day, but the ich was long gone when he decided that he was too lonely to go on or so it seemed. Speaking of which I need to build up a harem of gramma again. We're not so lucky around here when it comes to the blue reef chromis. In the 12 years I've been doing salt tanks I've only seen two that sold in about 4 seconds after they came out of the shipping bag, I can only imagine that a school of those would be breath taking.


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Old 07/13/2017, 05:32 PM   #2657
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I have almost the same gramma story. Harem of seven for 2+ years, then ICH, now one lonely, Big Daddy. We don't see the blue chromis that much here either, and then they're kinda pricey for damsels. They're such a pretty blue, I really look forward to getting some!


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Old 07/19/2017, 08:20 AM   #2658
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Hey Michael. How is the tank doing? Updates?


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Old 07/19/2017, 11:32 AM   #2659
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Hey Chasmodes!

Not a lot to report (but, you know me). I went camping over the weekend, so I didn't do my usual weekend tank work. Having said that, there are a few things to note. The Nemastoma red macro I thought I'd lost to hypo, is bouncing back. It's a gorgeous plant, and a hitchhiker/freebie. The Ulva is all but gone now, thanks to my ravenous snails. I'm really hoping to get something growing up along the top that the snails won't devour. The Grasilaria hayi is popping up on the fake roots again, which I'm happy about. I've got another, rather large patch growing in the back of the DSB. The Halimeda plants keep dying and coming back. I suspect I don't have enough calcium in the water for all the calcium-hungry plants in the tank. My guess is the G hayi sucks it up faster.

The largest, dominate sailfin blenny has taken up station in the most prominent barnacle shell. All four barnacle blennies are in close proximity to each other, in the small live rocks on the right end of the tank. They are both comically gregarious and competitive, which makes them so fun to watch. Big Daddy, the surviving royal gramma, is slowly depleting the pod population. I ordered some more, along with a few tiny brittle stars, and some more shoal grass.

The grasses continue to do nothing (that I can see). This is a bummer, especially since I finally have a limited number of macros to compete with them for nutrients. I do expect them to rebound at some point, but the waiting is getting old! I've put the additional light project on hold for now, while it's so hot. I've got another, smaller fixture or two I may try instead.

I'm dying to add more fish, but I've got to watch the funds…


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Current Tank Info: 180g Caribbean Biotope Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 07/20/2017, 08:53 AM   #2660
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Thanks for the update. I like how some of the macros are finding ways to attach themselves permanently.

I set up a 20L. After cycling, I added 5 local juvenile gobies and one small grass shrimp. These fish are pretty small, almost difficult to watch them. I hope to get away this weekend to collect some Ulva and some pods, maybe a few shrimp. If I'm lucky enough to catch a juvenile blenny, then I may keep him too. We'll see.

I added some of my oyster cultches to the tank, so I guess I'll need to build some more for this tank after I remove them and add them to my big tank. But, they look pretty good. It's good to see my hard scape under water, at least some of it, LOL. Once I get my big tank set up and cycled, then I think that this tank will be a holding tank, or maybe I'll set up a 10g for that and use this one as a stickleback tank. After catching some of them, they're really a cool fish to watch.

As I observe my gobies (biggest one is an inch long), I understand what you go through as you watch your small blennies.!


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Old Today, 12:53 AM   #2661
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Hi Michael,
My name is John. I have been setting up a 75 gallon reef tank. Long story short, the tank I was using had a small crack towards the top that made me nervous. I bought a new 75 and decided to make the old one my refugium. While researching I stumbled on some articles about keeping seagrasses in my refugium. A week or so of researching, i am hooked. Now I stumble here and I have a very old blog I need to catch up on. At this point my only question is thus. Can I keep a reef tank, stock it with coral and fish and at the same time keep seagrasses and do it successfully?

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Old Today, 02:45 AM   #2662
HuskerBioProf
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Quote:
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Hi Michael,
My name is John. I have been setting up a 75 gallon reef tank. Long story short, the tank I was using had a small crack towards the top that made me nervous. I bought a new 75 and decided to make the old one my refugium. While researching I stumbled on some articles about keeping seagrasses in my refugium. A week or so of researching, i am hooked. Now I stumble here and I have a very old blog I need to catch up on. At this point my only question is thus. Can I keep a reef tank, stock it with coral and fish and at the same time keep seagrasses and do it successfully?

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Some have done this, but it is so uncommon that it is hard to find good documentation. However, there shouldn't be many issues, theoretically. In fact, the tank I just set up is a 150 reef with a 55 gallon refugium (partly containing sea grasses). My tank has been up for weeks, so Michael is certainly a better reference when it comes to general seagrass experience.


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Old Today, 02:52 AM   #2663
JohnZena
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Originally Posted by HuskerBioProf View Post
Some have done this, but it is so uncommon that it is hard to find good documentation. However, there shouldn't be many issues, theoretically. In fact, the tank I just set up is a 150 reef with a 55 gallon refugium (partly containing sea grasses). My tank has been up for weeks, so Michael is certainly a better reference when it comes to general seagrass experience.
Thank you for the response. I have taken a step back because of the fact that it is so uncommon. This leads me to believe that there is a negative effect on reef/fishtanks. My plan is a 75 dt with a 75 sump devoting 40 gallons to seagrasses. I would love to grow some in the dt if it is feasible. However, the last thing I want to do is set myself up for failure.

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Old Today, 10:01 AM   #2664
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Welcome, JohnZena!

To answer your question, yes, you can keep a reef tank with a seagrass refugium. That is exactly what HuskerBioProf is attempting. While I've had success with seagrasses, I haven't attempted what you are proposing. But, I know it is possible. It has been done. It's a very cool idea!

The tricky part, in my opinion, is balancing the disparate needs of the two ecosystems. Trying to optimize conditions on one side without harming the other may be challenging. Keeping a successful reef or seagrass tank alone is pretty challenging already! In your favor, seagrasses may be the best choice of plants, rather than say, macro algae, because they don't require a high nutrient environment, like macros do. In nature, seagrasses are able to outcompete algae by surviving in low nutrient water that can't support algae growth. This would suggest that seagrasses would partner nicely with a reef tank. Another plus is if you run the lights cycles contra to each other (daylight in one, while dark in the other) you'll get less variation in pH levels as well as oxygen levels throughout the day.

To your second post, I understand your choosing to step back a bit. It is uncommon. There is not a lot of info out there to guide you. While in theory the two systems should benefit each other, the complications of managing two very different systems is daunting. Your idea of putting some in the sump may work well, or not. Confining the grasses to an area that will probably get less attention could be good, or bad. Sometimes Mother Nature does better without our 'help'. Planting some in the display could work well, and you're more likely to kept abreast of their progress there. I'd suggest shoal grass for either/both situations. It is a pioneering species that can really take off, if 'happy'.

Whatever you decide to do, it would be great to hear your experience. Maybe start a thread? Good luck!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Caribbean Biotope Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old Today, 03:37 PM   #2665
HuskerBioProf
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Thank you for the response. I have taken a step back because of the fact that it is so uncommon. This leads me to believe that there is a negative effect on reef/fishtanks. My plan is a 75 dt with a 75 sump devoting 40 gallons to seagrasses. I would love to grow some in the dt if it is feasible. However, the last thing I want to do is set myself up for failure.

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I see no reason for it to be detrimental. Like Michael said, I have seen quite a bit of evidence suggesting microalgae outcompete macro algae which outcompete vascular marine plants in high nutrient environments, but the opposite ranking seems to be true in the case of low nutrients. I would say: use the macro algae as a mechanism to keep nitrate/phosphates low with heavy feeding and treat the seagrass like they are SPS (but sucking nitrate/phosphate out of the substrate). This is basically what I am doing. I have the grasses because I love them, the macro algae are serving the purpose.

I agree, start a thread in the Marine Plants/Macro forum. I really enjoy seeing the progress and updates from the threads in this forum, and it is one of the higher concentrations of people who have dedicated macro algae or planted marine tanks (as sparse as that is). We can learn form each other.


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Old Today, 04:29 PM   #2666
JohnZena
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I see no reason for it to be detrimental. Like Michael said, I have seen quite a bit of evidence suggesting microalgae outcompete macro algae which outcompete vascular marine plants in high nutrient environments, but the opposite ranking seems to be true in the case of low nutrients. I would say: use the macro algae as a mechanism to keep nitrate/phosphates low with heavy feeding and treat the seagrass like they are SPS (but sucking nitrate/phosphate out of the substrate). This is basically what I am doing. I have the grasses because I love them, the macro algae are serving the purpose.

I agree, start a thread in the Marine Plants/Macro forum. I really enjoy seeing the progress and updates from the threads in this forum, and it is one of the higher concentrations of people who have dedicated macro algae or planted marine tanks (as sparse as that is). We can learn form each other.
This is absolutely wonderful news. After deciding to build a sump out of my old tank I decided that grass would a fabulous addition. My thoughts are to use Caribbean grasses such as Shoal, Turtle, Manatee and Star. Much easier said than done. I am considering whether or not I run 2 or 3 different compartments in my refugium. If I isolate the micro from the macro I can control waterflow and in turn bene fit both systems. I would appreciate any and all input, thoughts and ideas that the 2 of you might offer. Thank you again.

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