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Old 02/04/2019, 06:52 PM   #1
RBU1
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Vinegar dosing

Ok. Iím up to 115ml a day dosing vinegar. My nitrates are around 25 on the salifert and my phosphate around 10 on the Hanna ULR. Should I increase my vinegar? Or should I be happy with what Iím at and leave it alone. I do also run GFO.


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Old 02/04/2019, 07:01 PM   #2
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Ok. Iím up to 115ml a day dosing vinegar. My nitrates are around 25 on the salifert and my phosphate around 10 on the Hanna ULR. Should I increase my vinegar? Or should I be happy with what Iím at and leave it alone. I do also run GFO.
How large is your system?


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Old 02/04/2019, 07:02 PM   #3
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Old 02/04/2019, 07:07 PM   #4
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I was okay with 1ml per gallon of tank water per day.
Cheers! Mark


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Old 02/04/2019, 07:22 PM   #5
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If nitrate/phosphate levels have been decreasing then you can maintain or lower your dose... If not then raise it..plain and simple


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Old 02/05/2019, 06:26 AM   #6
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Thanks, They seem to be maintaining at least on the nitrate side, Phosphates up and down based on how often I change the GFO and clean out the reactor pad to allow better flow thru the reactor. I raised it from 100ml to 115ml last week. Any idea how long it takes to typically see a drop in nitrates when the dose amount changes? Should I give it more time or raise up to 125ml?


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Old 02/05/2019, 08:19 AM   #7
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How long have you been dosing? Are you seeing any bacteria forming?
Cheers! Mark


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Old 02/05/2019, 11:25 AM   #8
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If everything else is doing well you could just do water changes and slowly bring down your nitrates.


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Old 02/05/2019, 12:10 PM   #9
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If everything else is doing well you could just do water changes and slowly bring down your nitrates.
Thanks, I do, have been doing weekly 25 gallon water changes since I started the tank 3 or so years ago.


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Old 02/05/2019, 02:10 PM   #10
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You 10 reading converts to roughly .037 ppm of phosphate if you are using a Hanna 736 ULR. It reads in ppb of phosphorus. That reading is great in and of itself. It may however indicate that the nitrate/phosphate levels are out of balance.

I point that out because if your phosphates are low and nitrates are high, the carbon dosing process can become limited. I would keep an eye on your phosphate level as you increase the vinegar dose.


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Old 02/05/2019, 03:52 PM   #11
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Like Mcgvr said, if "decreasing then you can maintain or lower your dose... If not then raise it..plain and simple". Yours are not decreasing so.......


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Old 02/05/2019, 10:34 PM   #12
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I agree that raising the dose might help with the nitrate level. Some water change might help, too, but maybe not. Tanks are strange beasts.


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Old 02/09/2019, 09:55 AM   #13
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You've not said what sort of fish/corals you're keeping, but I'd guess that most of us would consider 37 ppb of phosphate to be extremely low. Definitely in the ultra low nutrient system range.

The general advice 5 or 6 years ago was less than 50 ppb phosphate in an SPS tank. Many, if not most, that have experience keeping SPS have rethought that range, and target somewhere in the 100 - 300 ppb range. The idea is that while seawater on a pristine natural reef may have nearly undetectable levels of phosphate and nitrate, that doesn't mean the reef is actually in an ultra low nutrient condition, because the corals are getting fed massive amounts of plankton, especially at night.

Since it's very difficult for us to replicate high plankton levels in our tanks, then a somewhat higher level of dissolved inorganic nutrients are preferred.

If this was my tank, I'd discontinue the use of GFO for a while, and frequently test the PO4 level to track its rise. You don't want to suddenly go to 1 ppm (1,000 ppb), since with those nitrate levels you're likely to have a massive algae outbreak. But I'd let it slowly rise to around 300 ppb, and monitor the nitrate concentration. You should see the nitrate level decrease considerably with that level of carbon dosing as bacteria consume the carbon, nitrate and phosphate.


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Old 02/10/2019, 11:01 AM   #14
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The other day I woke up and my tank was cloudy. Can only assume I had a bacteria bloom. I lowered my vinegar from 115ml to 100ml.


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Old 02/10/2019, 11:31 PM   #15
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That sounds like a good precaution. I wonder how long it'll take to clear up.


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Old 02/11/2019, 09:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkeller_nc View Post
You've not said what sort of fish/corals you're keeping, but I'd guess that most of us would consider 37 ppb of phosphate to be extremely low. Definitely in the ultra low nutrient system range.
If my math's right... 37 ppm (not ppb) phosphate after the conversion from phosphorous read by the Hanna Checker (ULR)?

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Many, if not most, that have experience keeping SPS have rethought that range, and target somewhere in the 100 - 300 ppb range.
My math sucks sometimes... Is that .1 to .3 ppm phosphate?


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Old 02/11/2019, 04:50 PM   #17
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37 ppb phosphorus is about 107 ppb phosphate, or about 0.1 ppm. That probably is a reasonable goal for a reef tank.


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Old 02/12/2019, 08:30 AM   #18
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Reefgeezer -

The Hanna ULR (HI736) reports results as phosphorus in parts-per-billion. The conversion between phosphorus and phosphate is 3.7, so the 10 ppb on the Hanna ULR that the OP noted is actually 37 ppb as phosphate.

37 parts per billion phosphate is very, very low for a reef aquarium. You can get away with this if you're feeding plankton substitutes very heavily. But 37 ppb phosphate with not a lot of additional feeding may starve SPS corals (just ask a ZeoVit system neophyte that's driven his/her nutrient levels really low without supplemental feeding).

The reason I suggested discontinuation of the GFO to the OP for now is that he has high nitrates, and very, very low phosphates. In order for carbon dosing to work effectively, you'd like a balance of nitrates, phosphates, and carbon. If one of these are very low, it will limit bacterial growth and therefore limit the export of the nutrient you'd like to remove.


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Old 02/12/2019, 03:16 PM   #19
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https://hannainst.com/resources/aqua...nstruments.pdf


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Old 02/12/2019, 05:55 PM   #20
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Oops, I stand corrected - left out a "0" between the 3 and the 7, so should've been 3.07, not 3.7.

Good catch!


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Old 02/12/2019, 10:38 PM   #21
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Yes, the conversion factor is 3, to enough significant digits for our purposes.


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Old 02/13/2019, 07:52 AM   #22
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Well, there's always things like the Alkatronic or the Neptune Trident for the OCD among us. Kind of hard for me personally to imagine needing to test the tank for alk/Ca/Mg 4 times a day to a precision of 2 decimal places, but to each their own.


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