EcoTech Marine - Vectra M1 or L1?

ztedesco · 03/17/2016, 09:25 AM

Not sure which Vectra pump will be sufficient for the return on my new AND first setup.

Suggestions?

Tank: 270 Gallons (72" W x 24" D x 36" H) Overflow is on right side of tank with two drilled holes for overflow and two drilled holes for return.
Sump: 41 Gallons Trigger System TideLine 36
Skimmer: Reef Octopus Regal DC 200 Internal
Powerheads: TBD - Most likely EcoTech Vortech

Sapelo · 03/17/2016, 02:44 PM

Totally depends on how much water you need to move.
M1 can move up to 2000gph, L1 is 3100.
I have the L1 on my 300 gallon and run it at less than half strength.

ztedesco · 03/18/2016, 09:05 AM

I'm not sure how much water I need to move. I've read at least 5x - 7x.
We have roughly the same amount of water.
Are you saying the M1 would work fine on your tank because of how much you have to tune back the L1?

Sapelo · 03/19/2016, 06:14 AM

That would be my guess, albeit one I have not tried.
Sort of depends on what other kind of movement you have in your tank as well.
I'm glad I have the L1 in case I want to move to a bigger tank, but it is more pump than I need for sure.
I have a marineland DD, dual overflow boxes, and this pump can return far more water than my overflows can move quickly. I'd suspect you'd be running an M1 at mid to max. You might try chatting with the guys at Ecotech, their customer service is outstanding.

rjjr1963 · 03/19/2016, 07:35 AM

How much head height will you have. 2000 gph is calculated with zero head pressure. Will you be running anything else with that pump, eg refugium, manifold etc. Any of those things are going to reduce flow to the tank. Id go with the L1 for expansion down the road.

Breadman03 · 03/19/2016, 08:12 AM

I'd go with the L1. That would allow you plenty of room to run a manifold with whatever reactors you want.

Also, keep in mind that they aren't Apex compatible.

Hal · 03/19/2016, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ztedesco

I'm not sure how much water I need to move. I've read at least 5x - 7x.
We have roughly the same amount of water.
Are you saying the M1 would work fine on your tank because of how much you have to tune back the L1?

The 5-7x is usually a rule of thumb for the amount of flow RELATIVE TO THE VOLUME OF YOUR SUMP. Perhaps better said, the flowrate through your sump should be just enough to feed your skimmer, reactors, UV sterilizer, etc. That is, any equipment that you house in your sump. Usually the recommended flow rate for your skimmer is what you should target. Trying to push 5-7x the volume of your tank through the sump leads to a very noisy sump, which most people don't like.

It's generally not a good idea to try to use your return pump for the circulation needs of your tank because it just sends too much water through your sump, again, leading to noise and reduced efficiency of your skimmer. Besides, most reef tanks need 10x turnover and trying to pump 2700gph through your 40 gallon sump would be a nightmare. You'd have water splashing all over the place.

I had 10x circulation in my tank (it's temporarily shut down while I move into a new house) and frankly I don't think it was enough. I'm thinking of adding a fourth MP40 to my 250g tank, and the only reason I don't is funds. Who knows, maybe I'll even make it a MP60. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to buy an automatic water changer before I spring for the extra powerhead.

In short, don't rely on your return pump for your circulation. Use the Vortech's/in-tank powerheads/closed loop pump for your circulation. That's what I and most people do.

So total up the recommended flow rates for each piece of equipment in your sump, adding flowrates for any equipment that you don't have yet, but might get in the future (e.g., calcium reactor, kalkwasser reactor), and size your return pump for that flowrate. And don't forget to derate the pump based on the head pressure of your system. It's the derated number that you need to match to your equipment flowrate. Then buy a pump just slightly larger so you can handle future expansion that you didn't think of and so the pump isn't straining all the time.

ca1ore · 03/19/2016, 03:50 PM

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me (other than the part about factoring in head pressure). Neither Vectra handles pressure all that well. Fine if presuming a stand based sump, not so fine if from the basement.

I tend to subscribe to a flow rate through the sump between 3 and 5 times display volume per hour. So, for a 270 (I have a 265) you're talking somewhere between 800 and 1200 gph. With an in-the-stand sump, the smaller Vectra pump will suffice. I don't personally like encumbering my main return pump with all sorts of side jobs; preferring to use a second, smaller pump for things like reactors, UV sterilizes, etc. What flow through the sump has to do with skimmer size I'll never know. I think it's just one of those oft repeated gems that has no bearing in fact.

Also, depending upon how the holes are configured, you may want to consider using three as a bean animal drain and just one as a return. I see no benefits to splitting up the return, other than robbing your pump of flow which ain't a benefit.

Though serviceable, a 40 gallons sump is on the tiny side for a 270. I used a 75 on mine, decided it was too small and went with a 150.

ztedesco · 03/20/2016, 12:57 PM

Wow thanks for the replies...the head height is roughly 69 inches. The Vectra pump will be solely used for returning water to the display.

The drilled holes are configured for two returns and two overflows to sump all on the right side (depending on how you look at it)...so my options are splitting return pump pipe to two returns pipes(I think there is a Y connector?) OR do a single return pump pipe and three overflows pipes to sump like Simon suggested.

Here are some photos to get a better idea:

ztedesco · 03/20/2016, 01:05 PM

Either way I'm getting from the replies that the L1 is probably the safer choice...

Another dilemma is the circulation pumps in the display. I was hoping the return pump would provide some water movement on the overflow side and then I would install a Vortech pump on the opposite side. I really don't want to put any circulation pumps on the front or back side.

Sapelo · 03/20/2016, 03:19 PM

In my experience, it will give you some return flow but certainly not as much (and not with the control) of a Vortech. Some of it depends on what you want to keep in the tank. We're aiming for sps dominant so flow is a big deal...

03/17/2016, 09:25 AM	#1
ztedesco Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 6	EcoTech Marine - Vectra M1 or L1? Not sure which Vectra pump will be sufficient for the return on my new AND first setup. Suggestions? Tank: 270 Gallons (72" W x 24" D x 36" H) Overflow is on right side of tank with two drilled holes for overflow and two drilled holes for return. Sump: 41 Gallons Trigger System TideLine 36 Skimmer: Reef Octopus Regal DC 200 Internal Powerheads: TBD - Most likely EcoTech Vortech

03/19/2016, 07:35 AM	#5
rjjr1963 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Nebraska/Missouri Posts: 770	How much head height will you have. 2000 gph is calculated with zero head pressure. Will you be running anything else with that pump, eg refugium, manifold etc. Any of those things are going to reduce flow to the tank. Id go with the L1 for expansion down the road. __________________ 72x24x16 115 gallon under construction Current Tank Info: 40 gallon reef

03/19/2016, 03:50 PM	#8
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me (other than the part about factoring in head pressure). Neither Vectra handles pressure all that well. Fine if presuming a stand based sump, not so fine if from the basement. I tend to subscribe to a flow rate through the sump between 3 and 5 times display volume per hour. So, for a 270 (I have a 265) you're talking somewhere between 800 and 1200 gph. With an in-the-stand sump, the smaller Vectra pump will suffice. I don't personally like encumbering my main return pump with all sorts of side jobs; preferring to use a second, smaller pump for things like reactors, UV sterilizes, etc. What flow through the sump has to do with skimmer size I'll never know. I think it's just one of those oft repeated gems that has no bearing in fact. Also, depending upon how the holes are configured, you may want to consider using three as a bean animal drain and just one as a return. I see no benefits to splitting up the return, other than robbing your pump of flow which ain't a benefit. Though serviceable, a 40 gallons sump is on the tiny side for a 270. I used a 75 on mine, decided it was too small and went with a 150. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs Last edited by ca1ore; 03/19/2016 at 03:56 PM.

03/17/2016, 02:44 PM	#2
Sapelo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: North Georgia Posts: 869	Totally depends on how much water you need to move. M1 can move up to 2000gph, L1 is 3100. I have the L1 on my 300 gallon and run it at less than half strength.

03/18/2016, 09:05 AM	#3
ztedesco Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 6	I'm not sure how much water I need to move. I've read at least 5x - 7x. We have roughly the same amount of water. Are you saying the M1 would work fine on your tank because of how much you have to tune back the L1?

03/19/2016, 06:14 AM	#4
Sapelo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: North Georgia Posts: 869	That would be my guess, albeit one I have not tried. Sort of depends on what other kind of movement you have in your tank as well. I'm glad I have the L1 in case I want to move to a bigger tank, but it is more pump than I need for sure. I have a marineland DD, dual overflow boxes, and this pump can return far more water than my overflows can move quickly. I'd suspect you'd be running an M1 at mid to max. You might try chatting with the guys at Ecotech, their customer service is outstanding.

03/19/2016, 08:12 AM	#6
Breadman03 New Old School Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Luzerne County, PA Posts: 3,293	I'd go with the L1. That would allow you plenty of room to run a manifold with whatever reactors you want. Also, keep in mind that they aren't Apex compatible.

03/20/2016, 12:57 PM	#9
ztedesco Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 6	Wow thanks for the replies...the head height is roughly 69 inches. The Vectra pump will be solely used for returning water to the display. The drilled holes are configured for two returns and two overflows to sump all on the right side (depending on how you look at it)...so my options are splitting return pump pipe to two returns pipes(I think there is a Y connector?) OR do a single return pump pipe and three overflows pipes to sump like Simon suggested. Here are some photos to get a better idea:

03/20/2016, 01:05 PM	#10
ztedesco Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 6	Either way I'm getting from the replies that the L1 is probably the safer choice... Another dilemma is the circulation pumps in the display. I was hoping the return pump would provide some water movement on the overflow side and then I would install a Vortech pump on the opposite side. I really don't want to put any circulation pumps on the front or back side.

03/20/2016, 03:19 PM	#11
Sapelo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: North Georgia Posts: 869	In my experience, it will give you some return flow but certainly not as much (and not with the control) of a Vortech. Some of it depends on what you want to keep in the tank. We're aiming for sps dominant so flow is a big deal...