Its another Help me decide thread.

[Str8linespeed]

Im in the process of gathering equipment to set up a second tank. I have 3 tanks. 53gal, 40B, and 20L. My plan was to create a 40B and a refugium using the 20L. Pretty common setup.

Honestly, I've only owned Red Sea tanks so all the work was done for me. What I cant decide is the type of overflow to make. I've also never done the piping for a tank. Im a pipe fitter by trade, so I know how to pipe, its just the design of it. I dont want to have a catastrophe because I did something wrong, and flood my room.

I've been reading and reading and Im overwhelmed. I could get a simple HOB overflow, but since Im in no hurry to get this tank up and running Im drawn to an internal.

If anyone could point me in a "for sure" proven overflow that would be great. Also some piping designs or links to do proper piping. Google has tons of pages and pictures, but I have no idea if those designs worked out for them.

[lingwendil]

I can only assume that you will be drilling this tank, but must ask, how many holes do you plan to drill, and are you okay with them being different sizes? Will you be building a false wall or corner type overflow? These things will influence the designs a bit.

Personally, I like anything with a backup drain that is as large or larger than the main drain, and a single return is usually adequate with auxiliary pumps and flow in the tank separately.

FWIW, the durso is a very klunky and noisy method, and I like the beananimal or herbie setups.

Silent and safe method-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca1yPPaePfk

Bean animal-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWMzmiU3wDY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oya6X3aLUOo

[sfsuphysics]

I would advise to not do a HOB overflow. If you want a potential for flooding, that would definitely be one. IMO the key to not having a flood is to have one pipe that is literally never used but it could handle all the flow from your pump if necessary, both the Herbie and the Beananimal basicaly use this principle.

I have experience with the Herbie, and I find it works good, sometimes take a bit adjusting to get it dialed in quiet. Don't have any experience with a Beananimal but my understanding it works on a similar principles.

My advice, draw something up and post a picture of what you want to do, the forum can tell you what pitfalls to watch out for. Going in the direction of Modular Marine or similar type of low profile overflows is a good place to start IMO. Eshopps and another manufacturer who's name is escaping me also makes a similar "external" setup, but not low profile IIRC. Go to someplace like BRS and just look at what they have for sale to get some ideas.

[mcgyvr]

bean animal with a 24" or so internal or ghost type overflow..
only way to fly IMO...

[Lsufan]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

bean animal with a 24" or so internal or ghost type overflow..
only way to fly IMO...

IMO this would by far be the best setup.

On my 40 breeder I went with a interior overflow box with a beananimal drain setup using 1” drains. It is very similar to beans original design except I made the overflow 28” long & not a full coast 2 coast because I wanted to save room on each end for my returns.

On my 150 I made a diy ghost type overflow with a acrylic wier on the inside & glass external box. I love the setup.

It depends on your budget, but if I could I would look into the toothless version of the 24” modular marine overflow. If it is to expensive then u will need to decide if u want to take up the extra real estate inside of the tank by only having a internal overflow.

U will have to decide if it is worth saving the space inside of the tank to have a ghost overflow. The ghost type overflows the internal wier is 1.25” wide. If u make a internal overflow from glass it will need to be atleast 2.75” wide to fit the plumbing. So u will save around 1.5” by going with the ghost overflow.
If u decide to make a internal overflow from glass I would make it as long as possible.

Before looking at the long thread on here I would google beananimal bar & grill & look at his overflow setup. That is beans website & he gives a good rundown on the overflow & drain setup. I would look at that before the long thread on here, that way u have a good idea before reading the thread. So when u do read it u can be looking for specific things.

[Cheapreef]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

bean animal with a 24" or so internal or ghost type overflow..
only way to fly IMO...

Yep this, what I did on my new setup with 3 1" drain lines couldn't be happier.

[Str8linespeed]

Thanks everyone for the help. After spending the majority of the day yesterday reading posts and searching overflows. This is kinda what Im thinking.

I will have the overflow on the end of the tank, not the back. Kind of like a peninsula tank. I've decided to go with the modular marine low profile 1200gph overflow.

https://modularmarine.com/collection...removable-weir

Now, this does have 3 drains which are 3/4" in size. Im assuming I can use this as a BA style? I dont like the looks of the coast to coast overflows, that I see a lot of the BA overflows are designed like. I also didnt want to take up that much room in such a small tank, hence my decision to go with this one.

Thoughts?

[mcgyvr]

yep.. thats fine.. BA with a box like that..
Go for it..

You won't get the surface skimming you would get with a wider overflow but that should be fine.. If you notice a protein slick you will just need to knock it down with powerheads..
And peninsula style will be more prone to protein slicks too.. but that can be taken care of with surface agitation..

[Str8linespeed]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

yep.. thats fine.. BA with a box like that..
Go for it..

You won't get the surface skimming you would get with a wider overflow but that should be fine.. If you notice a protein slick you will just need to knock it down with powerheads..

I could jump up to the next size, but then I have no room for my return line. That is if I mount it on the end like Im thinking.

Speaking of return, I was thinking of using a Sicce 3.0. I have no idea if that size would be good and then of course what size PVC to use? Could someone direct me to the size pump I would need.

[mcgyvr]

What head heights are you looking at?
That will determine the pump along with knowing the size of the display tank and going like 3-5x its size in GPH after head losses.. so a 40b you want like 120-200GPH after head loss..
Then you simply run the max size pipe/tubing its output is rated for or even 1 size up..

[Str8linespeed]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

What head heights are you looking at?
That will determine the pump along with knowing the size of the display tank and going like 3-5x its size in GPH after head losses.. so a 40b you want like 120-200GPH after head loss..
Then you simply run the max size pipe/tubing its output is rated for or even 1 size up..

Unsure of the height yet.. Im researching stand ideas right now, but that is a good rule of thumb and helps. Thanks again!

[Lsufan]

Personally, I would keep the overflow on the back of the tank unless u plan on the tank being a peninsula. Then u could go with the 24” box & still have room for your return. The bigger box will come with 1” drains which would fit better. It would be very difficult to keep a 3/4” open channel quiet. With the 3/4” open channel any flunctuation in the system would cause it to get loud & u would have to mess with the valve. One of the great things about a beananimal drain is that it is supposed to handle small flunctuation in the system & remain silent without having to touch the valve. I think u would be negating that with such a small open channel. The other thing is the surface skimming that mcgyver mentioned. That is something I always consider when setting up a tank. Some people don’t think it is quite as important.

I also think that unless the tank is a peninsula having the overflow on the end would be more noticeable then the back of the tank. Having said that, it would work how u are describing it just wouldn’t be my preference.

As far as thevreturn pump & returns. I would decide if u want to use locline inside of the tank or not. If u do then I would use 3/4” threaded bulkheads for the return. That way it is setup to accept a locline adapter & u don’t have to use other adapters inside of the tank to accept the locline. I would use 1” plumbing & reduce down to 3/4” at the bulkhead. This is somewhat determined by the return pump output, but 1” would likely be fine.

The sicce 3.0 should be fine for that tank if the sump is located inside of the stand. All u will need is between 150 to 400 gph after head loss which the sicce should be capable of. I have never used a success as a return so I can’t comment other then it will be fine as far as flow. If your not set on a sicce I would look at the fluval sp pumps. I have a sp6 & it is my favorite return I have ever had. For u it would eighther be the sp2 or sp4 depending if it is only feeding the tank or if u are going to have it feeding something else like a manifold.

[Str8linespeed]

Lsufan:

What is the recommended pipe size for the BA? Would 1" piping be big enough?

[Lsufan]

Yes, 1” would be a perfect size for your tank

[Str8linespeed]

I talked more with the wife about making a peninsula style tank and she loves the idea, but we dont really have a spot for it. So we are going to change the layout and with go the typical layout, with the overflow on the long side of the tank.

I contacted modular marine and asked them about a larger internal overflow. They are willing to make me a 24" internal with a 16" external. It would have 1" bulkheads thru the tank and 3-1" drains for a BA setup. They said it would handle up to a 150gal tank. Its a little overkill for a 40b, but I think it would have a really nice look and like you all mentioned the skimming will be taken care of. The price and turn around time are really decent!

Now to get working on the stand!

[Lsufan]

That sounds like a good idea. It will work fine but why don’t u want to have the 20” external box that it usually comes with? The 16” external box will be big enough for the flow u will have but the larger the box the more stable it will be. If u have any flunctuation in the drains & the water level inside of the box flunctuates, the bigger the box is the less likely it is that u will have to adjust the valve on the syphon to get the open channel to stay quiet. The 16” will be fine, It is just something to consider if u don’t have a reason for the smallerbox.

Are u getting one with or without the teeth. I would consider the toothless version. Basically by having teeth it cuts the surface skimming in half. I know he makes them both ways.

Those MM boxes are very nice & a great choice overall. U won’t find a better looking overflow out there.

U can make it work but u really need a wide tank for a peninsula style tank. I would think it would need to be atleast 24” & preferably 30”. With only a 18” tank it would be difficult to aquascape & make look good on the 3 sides.

[Str8linespeed]

Ok, Please critique my stand, please keep in mind I dont have the vertical supports screwed in at all and everything is just sitting there for the picture.

I made it 48" long so that I have a spot on the side for the make up water and supplies. The front of the tank is the first picture. I wanted to keep it open enough to be able to slide my sump in and out if needed. So I do not have the extra support like I do in the back. Would you do anything different with supporting it or will this support everything just fine?

Oh one last thing.. I want to cut a piece of plywood for the inside bottom. Can I mount the plywood to the bottom frame first, then screw down the vertical supports? Or do I screw them in first then cut the plywood to fit around them?


1119171516.jpg

1119171516a.jpg

[Lsufan]

That is more then enough to support the tank, u will be fine how it is. Putting the plywood down first won’t be a issue & will make it easier to do.

Are u going to build a canopy?

[Str8linespeed]

Thanks Lsufan,

Will 1/4" plywood be strong enough for sheeting and make it more ridged?

As for the canopy yes, I plan on making one as well. Im stuck on the height of it. Searching on here, I've seen some that are way to high and IMO, makes the whole setup look funny. Im thinking maybe 12" high for the canopy.

For lighting I would like to use LED and a couple of T5's, but Im not sure if I can get all that under a hood. Then it comes to how high off the water do you put it.. It looks like it averages about 11" for LED, but have not found anything for T5.

[Lsufan]

1/4” will work but if u plan on putting plywood on the back of the stand u will need to add a couple support. I wouldn’t go more then about 12” between supports or the 1/4” will want to warp. I usually just use 3/4” on everything. Some things u have to use 3/4” so I usually just use it on everything.

I made my canopy for my 40 breeder 12” but then I placed crown on the bottom of it to cover the trim on the tank. So with the crown mine is about 13.5”. Any taller doesn’t look right to me & any shorter u have a hard time placing the lights.

The reason I asked about a canopy is because usually a canopy will cover the top trim on the tank so u don’t see it. If I was going to use a canopy to cover the top trim, I would also build the stand to cover the bottom trim. That way u don’t see the top or bottom trim on the tank. I always build a ledge or shelf around the tank to set stuff on & I use that to cover the bottom trim. I use 1 by material to make the ledge & it is 3/4” thick. The tank trim is usually 1.5” tall. So what I do is place something that is 3/4” thick under the ledge board to fur it up & that gives u the 1.5” to cover the bottom trim.

Here is a pic of mine so u can see what I mean by covering the trim & what a 13” tall canopy looks like.

Btw, I don’t know how tall u made the stand but I made mine 36” tall & didn’t like it. I built another 6” tall frame & set the stand on to make it 42” tall. That is why I have that trim around the stand towards the bottom & I made that false drawer. I like it much better at the 42”

[Str8linespeed]

Thats a good looking stand, canopy and tank.

You have a good point on the 1/4" sheeting and the warping. Good thing I haven't bought the that yet.

Yes, I do plan on covering the trim top and bottom as well as having a ledge around it like you did. I think that has a very nice look to it. I havent finalized the height of the tank yet, thats up to the wife LOL.

What type of lights are you running in the canopy? Also how do you access the tank?

[Lsufan]

I have a 36” 4 bulb T5 & a 250 watt MH combo.

On this one I made the front to flip up. Being it is so small I didn’t worry about making any doors. I like the front flipping up to give as much access as possible.





This is my other stand for my bigger tank. The front flips up like the other one but being it is so big I also made doors for access.

[Str8linespeed]

Very nice, thanks again for the photos.

Ok, back to my tank build.... Lets talk return lines, would it be better to have 1 or 2 returns??

[Lsufan]

It doesn’t really matter, whatever u prefer. I have 2 because that is what I prefer, but on smaller tank like a 40 breeder there really isn’t a advantage of having 2.

[Str8linespeed]

Originally Posted by Lsufan

It doesn’t really matter, whatever u prefer. I have 2 because that is what I prefer, but on smaller tank like a 40 breeder there really isn’t a advantage of having 2.

Perfect, that saves me one less whole to drill and parts to buy.