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Unread 12/12/2018, 10:54 PM   #476
Michael Hoaster
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It occurs to me that I've thought a good deal about the 'what' I'm trying to achieve, but not so much about the 'how'. Basically, I want to take what I learned in v1 (which was a jungle) and use it to get what I want in v2, which (I'm hoping) will be more like a desert. Where v1 was a free-for-all, in v2 I want control.

How will I achieve this? What will I do differently? I mentioned above that adding dirt is the first big difference. The point of it is to give the seagrasses a fertile soil to grow in. This will allow me to deemphasize dosing the water column. I'd like to get the grasses in before I add macros, so they can get established without any competition.

Another big change is not having the DSB planter I made of coral skeletons. It provided a perfect substrate for macros to sprout from. It became a turf that required pruning - an endless battle. Without it I'll have much more control over where macros grow. And less pruning to do.

For the most part, this will be a more slow growing display. I've had my time in the fast lane. It was fun but too much work.

So, for now, I focus on the substrate. As life forms, I'm adding more characters. In time, it will be able to support a natural ecosystem, right in my living room.


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/13/2018, 07:12 AM   #477
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That kind of reminds me of my front yard, the endless battle to keep the wrong kind of weeds out. I'm losing that battle, and the war, though, and your underwater version has a much better chance at success!

As your plan unfolds, more and more I think about duplicating what you are doing for perhaps a section of my larger tank, starting with a plan building from the bottom up, not just dumping play sand in the tank. I have a luxury that I have yet to take advantage of, to actually bring in substrate from the actual ecosystem that I'm emulating. Anyway, this is very exciting!

BTW, any idea of when your grasses will arrive? Should be pretty soon, right?


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Unread 12/13/2018, 09:08 AM   #478
Michael Hoaster
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Thanks Kevin! It was a losing battle with out of control macros, in v1. I brought it on myself of course. I drove the tank hard, with high light and nutrients. This gave me lots of good growth but it became too much of a good thing. My plan this time is push the seagrass and restrain the macros. Will it work? Time will tell.

Employing your local substrate is very exciting! I think it will look and work beautifully.

I'm hoping to hear from the collector any day now!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/13/2018, 10:18 AM   #479
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I was wondering if it would matter or not, if you avoided macros altogether until you get a thick grass bed? Is that your plan, or only adding a few types of desirable macros as you establish the grass bed?


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Unread 12/13/2018, 11:24 AM   #480
Michael Hoaster
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That is the way I'm leaning, Kevin. The possible downside of that strategy is that without macros to help soak up nutrients, micro algae can take hold. So I may employ some macros to help keep the water column low in nutrients.

At this point I don't know anything for sure. In v1, it felt like the macros were outcompeting the seagrasses. I'd like to avoid that. I remember saying that it may have been better to start with the grasses only.

The big difference this time is the dirt in the substrate. That should provide for most of the seagrass' needs. If they do flourish in the dirt, that will allow me to be more stingy with water column dosing.

Bottom line is yes, I'd like to plant the seagrass first, and get it growing well before adding macros.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/14/2018, 01:31 AM   #481
Michael Hoaster
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It's kind of strange, starting up a tank this way. A big pile of substrate, a few rocks, some tiny fish, and a nearly insignificant amount of plants. I've had a diatom bloom, and now I'm getting a hint of green. I wonder how big of an algae phase I'll endure this time. With the crew I've got, it will be interesting to see what happens.

Oddly, I don't feel rushed. Usually at this point in a build, I'm going nuts, adding stuff at a feverish pace, to get the tank looking good. This time I'm going at a more geological pace, allowing Nature's input. It's fun thinking about all the natural processes happening right under my nose. My tank is like a blank canvas, with hardly a mark.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/14/2018, 10:42 PM   #482
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The barnacle blennies are enjoying having the run of the tank. They've really gotten bold. I've been feeding them (and the tank) well. The snails, conch and cucumber are all settling in. The two mollies are eating algae. The grammas are still surprisingly mellow. I think they'll do fine in QT. They now associate me with food, so they're less cryptic. I think they'll be an excellent addition to the community of fish I hope to keep. They're so gorgeous in groups. I bought them from KP Aquatics. I've had great luck with fish from them. Once those guys get into the display, I'll be bringing in the first wave of damsels.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/15/2018, 07:24 AM   #483
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The color and activity in your tank should be amazing with the choices of fish you have chosen. That neon blue from damsels, and fuscia and yellow from the grammas plus the activity of the blennies ought to be be fun and interesting to watch.


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Unread 12/15/2018, 11:18 AM   #484
Michael Hoaster
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Thanks Dawn! That's what I'm going for - great colors and lot's of natural, social behaviors. With the grammas and blennies, I'm dealing with fish I have experience with. The damsels are new to me, so there's less certainty with them. It's hard to get a lot of good info on specific species. What I've found out about the ones I'm considering, is encouraging, but there is also conflicting info out there that makes it feel like a gamble. But I've done my homework, and there's nothing left to do but try 'em out!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/16/2018, 09:54 PM   #485
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I got my RO/DI setup working properly again. Now I'm able to stabilize the water level, at the best height for wave making. Another variable is the height of the fake walls. I may need to trim them down a little lower as well. Between those two factors, I hope to get a descent wave. The best I've gotten so far is about an inch. My wife loves the sound of the rhythmic surges. I really does sound like the sea.

Another needed system fix is the main circulation pump. I've been in no rush since I won't turn it on for months. I need to get plants secured before the big pump comes on. When it finally does, it will change the shape of the sandbar.

I had a new film of green on the glass today, after cleaning it yesterday. I was surprised it returned so quickly. I think the base of the food chain is forming. It's the birth of an ecosystem! I observe nature unfolding, and try to deduce what's happening, and what I can do to help. Mostly it's just staying out of the way and occasionally adding something.

I'm curious how getting all these great players in place from the start, will affect the early, ugly phase. Maybe it will shorten it. Maybe it will be less ugly. The reproducing mini strombus snails are extremely effective. Their various, tiny sizes are perfect for cleaning seagrasses, as well as macros. Plus I have that small population of micro serpent stars and a bunch of spaghetti worms on the way. Pods after that I think. Eventually, I should have a diverse community of detrivores, algae eaters and filter feeders.

This is the fun part - assembling the correct ingredients to form a new ecosystem. Woo!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/17/2018, 05:25 AM   #486
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It is always enjoyable to hear your future plans and see results unfolding.

Why have you chosen school Damsels first. Knowing behavior of other Damsel species, I would have put them in after the other school fish.


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Unread 12/17/2018, 08:42 AM   #487
Michael Hoaster
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Thanks Patrick! I really do love sharing the experience.

The damsels ARE going in last. First were the barnacle blennies. Right now they are the only fish in the display, with the exception of two mollies. Next will be the royal grammas, which are in QT now. After them, I will have a couple of waves of damsel schools.

There a few other fish I'm considering, but that's basically it.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/17/2018, 10:11 AM   #488
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I'm glad that you're having a good time at this. This is what it's all about, the fun part. I'm enjoying following along and learning from your experience about things that could help my set up. I'm curious what impact of the use of the RO/DI water will be on the new growth of your tank. I'm sure that it's a good thing, but, what specifically will become different. Why do I ask? I'm currently using well water and not RO/DI, although, I plan to. I own a unit, it's just not in operation yet.


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Unread 12/17/2018, 11:33 AM   #489
Michael Hoaster
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Thanks Kevin! I do enjoy this fun part! I feel like a mad scientist, trying to understand what all's going on, and adding new ingredients to the formula.

The RO/DI was purchased years ago, when this was a reef tank. I set it up with a second reservoir for drinking water and my family got hooked on it. So I have two reasons to keep it working. The most important factor for me is auto top off of the aquarium.

Is RO/DI necessary for high nutrient planted tanks? Probably not. I guess it really depends on your water source. I imagine some folks might have water ideally suited to planted tanks, while some may have water that kills plants.

Starting my tank out with straight well water was not my first choice. I would have preferred to start with pure water. But I was curious to see the difference. The most obvious difference was the heavy diatom growth, which indicates high silica levels. It's not as clear either, but I think some of the color is from tannins leaching from the exposed dirt.

So, to answer your question, I don't expect a huge impact on the growth of the tank - and that's kind of the point. I want any incoming water to have NO effect. Having near pure water eliminates any unknown variables. So when I decide to dose something, I know it's the only thing different.

Having automatic top off is the biggest benefit for me. It eliminates that chore, while keeping salinity levels stable. And using pure water eliminate unknown variables.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/17/2018, 03:06 PM   #490
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That makes a lot of sense. Thank you!


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
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Unread 12/17/2018, 11:01 PM   #491
Michael Hoaster
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My pleasure Kevin! Great question.

With the RO/DI back in business, I'm playing around with the water level. With some fiddling, I got the wave up to over an inch. It's pretty cool! The water level the wave box seems to like is about an inch lower than the overflow refugium. If I want to have water flow over it, I'll need to cut it down. Alternately, I could modify the wave box output hole in the fake wall, to allow the box to move up a little. Either option would be a pain, but should work. I need to think on it.

Yesterday I observed one royal gramma not eating. Today I got some Prazipro and added it to the QT. I've also got hypo salinity going. I hope she is OK. I'll keep an eye on her.

My manatee grass is en route! WooHoo! I'm really looking forward to getting them planted. More fun part!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/18/2018, 07:11 AM   #492
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Kevin, I see some more reasons for RO/DI in addition to Michael's points. The main reason is that you know what is in the water every time you add it to your system. Unless you are on a well, there is always something added to the water, and you may not know about it. Silicates, phosphates, chlorine, etc. could all be problematic and you want to eliminate any source of contaminate you can. Using pure water also provides the aquarist with "total control" of nutrients and dissolved solids. I see this as a bonus for any type of tank. While I may not always use DI resin (currently I run 1 canister for DI), I will at least use RO membranes and prefilters for any tank I run into the future.

Michael, can you tell me more about the hyposalinity method for ich prevention? Does it completely eradiate the parasite or will it persist? I haven't really done any research on this method, but if it's effective I may try it for a group of grammas.


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Unread 12/18/2018, 07:31 AM   #493
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That's awesome that your grasses are on the way! Glad the wave box is working well too. I bet once you get the grasses growing the way you'd like, this aquarium will be alive with movement of both flora and fauna, and splashes of color! It should be exciting.

Thanks McPuff, that makes total sense. I'm on well water, but even then, it has changed over time. Recently, it became drastically harder the past two years to the point that we had to install a system to soften it. I'd rather know what is in my water also. I need to get to work on a good water changing station and set my RO/DI up.


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Unread 12/18/2018, 08:58 AM   #494
Michael Hoaster
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McPuff, I think in general, TTM is superior to hypo. In some situations, like mine, hypo allows for a less stressful treatment. Here are some links to hypo salinity articles that would explain it better than me:

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/i...process.23131/
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1991470


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/18/2018, 09:11 AM   #495
Michael Hoaster
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Thanks Kevin! I am very excited about getting the manatee grass! Can't wait!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/18/2018, 02:31 PM   #496
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Manatee grass is here! Here it is, spread out, before planting.

I've got it planted now. I also came back and covered the substrate with another thin layer of sugar sand. Tank's very cloudy at the moment. I'll try to get a pic later.

Thanks SaltySully, for collecting them for me! They arrived in great shape. Happy!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/18/2018, 02:45 PM   #497
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I am excited to see pics when the tank clears!


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Unread 12/18/2018, 04:11 PM   #498
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How exciting! I can't wait for the tank to clear also!


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Unread 12/19/2018, 12:58 AM   #499
Michael Hoaster
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It happened. I've got seagrass again. Yesterday, my tank had almost no plant life. Today, 2/3 to 3/4 of the substrate is planted with manatee grass. Huge change. It's hard to believe it with the water so cloudy. My sand/dirt combo was super soft for planting. Right now I can barely see them in the moonlight, like ghosts. Hopefully it will be clearer in the morning.

Today I noticed a new life form to add to the diatoms and green film algae. Back when I added a few tiny macros, I included a one inch piece of shriveled up ulva. Today I found some new small leaves of ulva growing at the top of the new fake wall. Pretty cool! Nice of them to show up just in time to compete with other algae. Nature finds a way. (He said smugly, right before all hell broke loose).

I won't worry about them outcompeting the grasses unless they get much bigger. Ulva is very reactive to local nutrients, coming and going seasonally. That gives it great utility for aquariums. I'm psyched I still have some! I'm really hoping to hold onto a few more of the red macros too. I haven't fully assembled all the plants I want for the splash of red. I also have a few greens in mind. For now, I want the grasses to get their chance to establish. I need to decide when to start CO2. It's probably time to add the worms too.

The grasses should be more or less taken care of, with the dirty sand bed. The macros will rely on the water for nutrients. With the new ulva growth, I'm inclined to believe that nutrient levels are rising. I wonder what's next!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 12/19/2018, 06:47 AM   #500
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That's really cool! Your plan is unfolding. Hopefully, your water will clear soon so you can show off your work!


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
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