Cyano: everybody gets it: how to get rid of it safely

[Steadysteady]

Ok so operation blackout has begun. Few quick questions.
Should I continue to carbon dose Zeostart( source similar to vodka, vinegar etc )as normal or stop during lights out?
Will beneficial bacteria be killed off too therefore requiring me to dose bacterial source ie Zeobac,MB7 or something similar?
Will putting in new activated carbon(passively) help the process?

Answers to these question would be brilliant as I can relax a bit then. Also should I maybe put on light a for ten minutes and feed firefish once in middle of process?
Thanks for any help/advice

[alessandro]

Originally Posted by Steadysteady

Ok so operation blackout has begun. Few quick questions.
Should I continue to carbon dose Zeostart( source similar to vodka, vinegar etc )as normal or stop during lights out?
Will beneficial bacteria be killed off too therefore requiring me to dose bacterial source ie Zeobac,MB7 or something similar?
Will putting in new activated carbon(passively) help the process?

Answers to these question would be brilliant as I can relax a bit then. Also should I maybe put on light a for ten minutes and feed firefish once in middle of process?
Thanks for any help/advice

I'd keep start at 50% of normal dosing.

[Sk8r]

Fish take two weeks to suffer serious food deprivation: no, just offer food: if they don't want it, don't worry. They're FAR from starving in a couple of days.

Alessandro has a good idea.

[Sk8r]

Fish take two weeks to suffer serious food deprivation: no, just offer food in the dark: if they don't want it, don't worry. They're FAR from starving in a couple of days.

Alessandro has a good idea.

[Steadysteady]

ok was dosing 0.6ml a day so will reduce to 0.3ml a day. Any thoughts on good bacteria, maybe add some after lights go back on. Also I might Zeozym in the middle day, tomorrow to help get any gunk out.

Thanks

I'll post results/observations when finished.

[Hextall]

I did the 3 days lights out this past weekend (I posted some pictures near the beginning of this thread). Everything went fine, I don't have a skimmer, so I was a little worried.

I tested after lights out, and all parameters were good (NH3=0, nitrate=0), not sure if the breakdown of cyano would have increased these enough to actually see the waste products. My filter floss was pretty dirty with a reddish tint (usually not reddish). so I think it was filtering out the suspended cyano.

I did a water change, changed filter floss... and within a few hours, teh filter floss again had a very faint reddish tint (I put a lot in, and it seemed like it was clogging a bit). replaced filter floss again. Not reddish a couple days later.

There were a couple of spots with cyano still, and a few bubbles on the rocks last night. so I'll probably do another round of lights out soon (not sure what soon will mean though... maybe a week, maybe this weekend? depends on how much cyano comes back).

Just wanted to post this graph of pH over the past 7 days (note: I'm not sure my pH probe is calibrated accurately, so ignore the actual pH values, just look at the trends). Lights went out on the morning of the 25th, and back on in the evening of the 27th. It graphically shows a little bit what people are discussing regarding dosing. I had a refugium light on at night.

[Sk8r]

Interesting. Thank you for that graph. Does indicate caution in any process that's going to drop ph.

Re bacteria: only cyano, of things in your tank, is light-dependent. Your bacteria will probably increase during that period due to eating the dieoff from the cyano.

[Steadysteady]

Originally Posted by Hextall

I did the 3 days lights out this past weekend (I posted some pictures near the beginning of this thread). Everything went fine, I don't have a skimmer, so I was a little worried.

I tested after lights out, and all parameters were good (NH3=0, nitrate=0), not sure if the breakdown of cyano would have increased these enough to actually see the waste products. My filter floss was pretty dirty with a reddish tint (usually not reddish). so I think it was filtering out the suspended cyano.

I did a water change, changed filter floss... and within a few hours, teh filter floss again had a very faint reddish tint (I put a lot in, and it seemed like it was clogging a bit). replaced filter floss again. Not reddish a couple days later.

There were a couple of spots with cyano still, and a few bubbles on the rocks last night. so I'll probably do another round of lights out soon (not sure what soon will mean though... maybe a week, maybe this weekend? depends on how much cyano comes back).

Just wanted to post this graph of pH over the past 7 days (note: I'm not sure my pH probe is calibrated accurately, so ignore the actual pH values, just look at the trends). Lights went out on the morning of the 25th, and back on in the evening of the 27th. It graphically shows a little bit what people are discussing regarding dosing. I had a refugium light on at night.

Yeah I had considered the ph drop, I have a sump with live rock in it(more because I'm planning a rescape and wanted to clean them off of any algae and though time in sump with no lights would help). Do you think I should maybe get a light in there and have it on 24/7 to help balance any ph flucuations. Will this even help? Also my current ph is 8.1 as i just checked it and lights have been out since about 12 last night and its 6pm here now. I'm just waiting on a bulb for chaeto in sump so could put in a bog standard light in meantime. What ya guys think?
Just for reference in case I lose it Alk is 7.95 Ca is 420 and Mg is 1420.
I have set 50% dose to see what happens to these during blackout.

[Sk8r]

For my fuge I just use a shoplight with a 6500k CFL bulb. Works like a charm. And I don't lights-out my fuge when I do the tank, but then the fuge is in the basement.

[Mockmo]

its been a few days since i took off the covers, and i must say i have never seen my corals this vibrant and alive. However the cyno and diatoms have slowly began to come back, i guess ill be doing the 3 day no lights again soon!

[disc1]

Haven't stopped by this thread in a while. Wow, it went big. Another great thread Sk8r!

Originally Posted by Allmost

question,

according to disc1, cyano can live with, or without light.

so how is removing light for 3 days going to help ? it will just change the type/property of cyano, right ?

[please dont get me wrong, not saying it wont work I have been using this method to control mainly hair algae in my FOWLR tanks. no lights for 3 days, with sides of tank covered in dark, and on 4th day I do a huge 40% water change as everything is dead and released its nutrition]

just wondering if there is more on it

Anytime you can get your energy for free from light, that is going to be a lot easier than working for it. So if there is plenty of light around (and there'd better be if you have corals) then cyano gets to take advantage of all that free energy. When we go lights out we aren't going to kill it all, but we are making the conditions not so conducive to overgrowth. Now since there is way more cyano in the tank when you go lights out than the tank can support in the dark, they end up quickly starving themselves out. It is very important that you are exporting nutrients and skimming during this time so their little corpses don't foul up your water and fuel the next outbreak.


Once you have cyano under control, the little patches that come and go shouldn't worry you. They are usually just telling you that the flow is too slow in one spot or that detritus is building up somewhere. Get them with the siphon hose and if they come back investigate them.

In truth, it's a shame that we find cyanobacteria and GHA so ugly because they actually do a wonderful job of cleaning up your water. How many 0 PO4 / 0 NO3 why do I still have algae threads do we see? It's because the algae cleans the water. There is even evidence (I think I posted it on page one of this thread) of cyanobacteria cleaning the water from heavy metals like copper.

[disc1]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Hydrogen peroxide is a dangerous measure to take without a 'dissolved oxygen' test kit: if you make a mistake with this, it can take out your tank. Basically you are saturating your system with oxygen. Hydrogen peroxide can help deal with algae; and it can help oxygenate a crashing tank, but since it can also cause a tank crash, do not do this one without having that test kit to use and without precise measurements: I'd ask Bertoni or Disc One over in the chemistry forum before trying it. Determining real water volume in a tank is very difficult because of porous rock and sand, and knowing that is important to this method.

I tend to agree with Sk8r on this one. I've seen a few threads on the subject in the Chemistry forum and the idea has generally been frowned upon. Unless you have the scientific expertise to properly watch what you are doing, it could quickly go very wrong on you. Peroxide has an irritating effect on the gills on other sensitive tissues of your pets. There are also some deleterious effects reported on corals. And if you manage to push your ORP much over 550 or 600mV you are going to effectively sterilize your tank and kill every living thing in it.


There are much safer, better, and more effective ways to kill cyano or dinos.

[Steadysteady]

Into last day of lights out. 24 hrs from now I'll be putting th T5's on for the day and Mg the following day. I'll post any observations then but Ph is staying pretty steady and Alk rock solid with the 50% normal dose. I'd say firefish will be happy to see a bit of mysis and the corals a bit of light. Hopefully fingers crossed cyano will be gone or at least badly beaten up.

[Sk8r]

You might do a reduced photo period on reef-capable T5's, to avoid 'sunburn' of the corals. Think of orchestrating the slow thinning of cloud as the hurricane leaves the reef area, and the sun begins to come out.....

[Steadysteady]

Ok maybe just remove high tech black out equipment(black bags) and open curtains and door and let natural light in tomorrow morning and tommorrow evening put on T5's for 3-4 hours and then just T5's following day and Halides then day after and normal timing. How does that sound. Had a peek today on snad bed and looks like cyano has turned into a very dull red covering with no bubbles so hopefully it has been given a bit of a beating. Should I syphon off the residue and do a water change and resume normal dosing etc?
Thanks for advice again.

[Sk8r]

Yes.

[StephLionfish]

Well, I added a tiny powerhead and it was all gone within 24 hrs. The most amazing thing that I've ever unintentionally done in this hobby.

[Steadysteady]

Originally Posted by StephLionfish

Well, I added a tiny powerhead and it was all gone within 24 hrs. The most amazing thing that I've ever unintentionally done in this hobby.

Yeah I am thinking about putting in another powerhead. Have two spare but find it hard to stop too much flow for goniopora and hammer.

[Steadysteady]

Have the lights back on T5's. Fish doing well and eating. Goniopora and hammer looking ok, toadstool sulking,but hey that's what they do best. As for the cyano, I wouldn't say that the sand is back white as it has a rusty powder/residue on top of it so going to syphon it off hopefully. To be honest I don't like the size of the sand I put in so when I redo the rockwork I'm taking the sand out and gonna leave bb for a while.
So my opinion yes it will definitely help but for me it didn't completely clear the tank. But with a water change and syphon, it may well keep it at bay for a while.

[Scotty878]

Hey, just wanna double check that this is cyano.



Cyano, right? So I guess I'll start siphoning out a bunch tonight and do lights out and a water change tomorrow. Its a relatively new tank but I have some corals. I believe you said that I shouldn't need to worry about them too much but would just like to be sure....

I have a Colt, a Xenia, a small piece of brain, a single mushroom and a TINY group of Zoa's I got as a hitchhiker....Should I be OK?

Thanks so much for the great info!

[Sk8r]

Scotty, that looks like the other bane of new tanks---diatoms.
Steadysteady, do the lights-out once monthly, about 30 days apart, and you should start seeing that stuff out of your life for a while. Not saying it won't recur now and again, but you can beat it.

[Scotty878]

Really? I guess that's somewhat good news.... Hope I don't steal the focus of your cyano thread but should I just wait and ride it out or is there anything I can really do to speed the process along? If you don't wanna muck up this thread you could PM me.

Really appreciate it!
Thanks.

[Sk8r]

Diatoms will respond to: 1. reduction in silicates, either from salt mix, use of non-ro/di water, or from use of sand that contains silica: [aragonite is the preferred marine sand]. 3. reduction of photoperiod (you can try the lights-out to see if it helps any. 3. reduction in phosphate (you can install a GFO reactor).

The way to tell is that diatoms are golden-brown and dustlike and cyano is red/brown, and stringy.

[larryfl1]

hey all...

i am about 10 days into carbon dosing using nopox from red sea...

nitrates are 2.5 , and undetectable phosphates...

but i have cyano... a pretty heavy case...

whats the recommendation? the 3 day lights out? is that an issue with the carbon dosing???

[Steadysteady]

Yeah it definitely helped, I am redoing the rockwork in tank and while I am doing it I'm going to syphon all gravel/sand into sump and possibly take it out completely. I am going to go with live carib sea Fiji pink as what I have is too big and was cheap. Probably biggest mistake so far. Going bb till I stock up more and get past new tank problems.

Would recommend blackout though. Hammer and goniopora doing great. Toadstool sulking but ok. Fish were also fine.

Thanks again all