JBJ 28 Gallon Nano Owners Club

[iFisch]

Originally Posted by sahin

iFisch: Tank dimensions, excluding the rear "SUMP" area =

Height: 16 inches

Length: 17.5 inches

Depth: 16 inches

Note that for depth I did not include the curved part of the tank which adds 1.5 inches. I just measured from the rear part black wall to the corner of the curved glass.

That makes it roughly 17.5G for the display area.

Perfect. Thank you.

[iFisch]

Originally Posted by sahin

Ifisch: why did you want to know the tank dimensions? What are you planning?

Found a 12g tank 19x12x12 (11.8g), which I was going to plumb to a 5g sump to house my skimmer, cheato, and return pump (in which I could get a bigger return pump, and not have power heads scattered in my tank.)

Which actually is nearly twice 1/3 bigger, the size of my 14g minus the "sump" area. My 14g is 15x11x13 (9.2g). But then I would just have it drilled, and house everything in the sump, giving me a total water volume of about 18g.


Which would mean nearly 4g more of actual swimming space (in a nano, that's somewhat significant) + I gain clutter free tank + rimless and low-iron tank. Which are two aesthetically pleasing bonuses. Plus it won't cost me but $150 or so, which means I can setup a seconding EXACT setup for $100 more than buying 1 - 28g JBJ, and either breed clowns - do a specialty tank, like seahorses, pipefish, jawfish, etc.


Not sure what exactly I want to do, quite yet. But I want it done at/close to X-Mas, so I have to get working on acquiring the pieces, if I go the other route (non 28g cube). I'll be thinking about it over the next few days.

[Sci_Man SF]

Originally Posted by balloonpilot

iFisch -

I make my own RO/DI (using 4 filter system) and with the weekly water changes, daily/hrly dosing I think my numbers are "stable". Is there someting that Ive missed? I'd agree its gotta be water chemistry - but what did I miss?

As for the nems - they are opposite sides of tank from SPS.

I was at LFS today and owner told me about Red Sea Coral Pro salt - said it was "better" than the Seachem Reef Salt... True?

Ballonpilot-

I have used Instant Ocean Reef Crystals for years with success. They had a bit of a problem with Ca++ levels a while back but I have been getting steady readings from it for past year or so.

Have you ever tested your water for copper or ever used an ich treatment?

Also, do you have any leather corals? In a small tank they can release chemicals that can kill off SPS.

You might want to run activated carbon in you r tank for a while to remove any possible contaminants. If you are using RO/DI then you should be adding anything back (assuming that your unit is working correctly). Again, I think you might want to test for copper just to rule it out.

I dont dose anything other then kalk in top off and 2-part once or twice a week. I add Mg++ every few months as part of the 2-part kit.

Pink birdnest just need a lot of light to stay pink. Keep it high up in the tank. I really didn't start introducing SPS until my tank was running for over a year. Then you know that every thing is stable.

[SlvrSurfRidr]

Originally Posted by Sci_Man SF

Ballonpilot-
I really didn't start introducing SPS until my tank was running for over a year. Then you know that every thing is stable.

ditto

[balloonpilot]

Sci_Man

I've never used any Coppper based treatments, but I had never tested for coper either. So got a copy test kit (from Red Sea) and it tested Zero... Good, eliminated one more ting.

No Lether Corals.

Pink Birdsnest sites the highest in the tank (about 3-4" from surface. Its totally white now and has started to become covered with "red stuff" and the crabs are crawling on it. Probably should take it out.

I think what I'm hearing is that even with numbers spot-on - the tank needs to stay that way for nearly a year before adding SPS... So I'll wait.

Thanks

[iFisch]

Originally Posted by balloonpilot

Sci_Man

I've never used any Coppper based treatments, but I had never tested for coper either. So got a copy test kit (from Red Sea) and it tested Zero... Good, eliminated one more ting.

No Lether Corals.

Pink Birdsnest sites the highest in the tank (about 3-4" from surface. Its totally white now and has started to become covered with "red stuff" and the crabs are crawling on it. Probably should take it out.

I think what I'm hearing is that even with numbers spot-on - the tank needs to stay that way for nearly a year before adding SPS... So I'll wait.

Thanks

By the way, Red Sea test kits are widely regarded as some of the worst and most inaccurate test kits in the hobby.

Next, when you decide to try SPS again, go with a monticap of some sort. Very cheap, extremely hardy, and don't require quite the attention other SPS needs.

Then, if that starts to grow over a period of months, not days, try another birdsnest, and slowly work your way up.

[SlvrSurfRidr]

Originally Posted by sahin

Balloonpilot - did you manage to work out the culprit electric item?

Any luck with the electric issues?

[balloonpilot]

Copper Test Kits -
So while Red Sea makes "a better, the best" salt, they are not good for thier Copper Testing... That figures since it was the only one the LFS had in stock last night!

So who makes the best Copper test kit?

But I read that copper was an issue for fish and inverts - I've not (knock on wood) had any issues with fish/inverts. Could a higher level of Copper cause issues with SPS but nothing else in the tank? I'm willing to test anything just to eliminate other possibilites.

As for elictrical -
I stripped the tank down (unplugged everything) and one at a time plugges stuff in. I was getting the 40 volts (yes forty) when my Profilux controller was plugged into the wall outlet and nothing else was plugged in... But I also had my laptop pugged into communications port on the Profilux and the power supply for the laptop was not plugged into the wall (but was plugged into laptop). I plugged the lapto power supply inot the wall and tank voltage zeroed... I removed the laptop and left the Profilux plugged in = no volts.

So there is something wrong w/ laptop when its attached to Profilux, has power supply attached, but not plugged into wall. I'm relieved to find it was NOT the Profilux and the laptop belongs to work so thats another issue... For now, I leave the grounding probe in the tank and either ran laptop on battery or plug in the power supply. Still dont completely understand it because all this means is the laptop was putting voltage into the Profilux and Profilux was passing it to the tank via one of its probes. It got Temp,, pH, and Salinity probes plus water level sensor - I removed all probes and voltage is stilll there so it must be passing via the water sensor some how. One weekend I'll have to try another computer and see if results are the same.

I'm not sure the voltage was the issue because the laptop doesnt stay connected, once a week when I do maintenance (WC) so it would not have been a continuos thing.. But who knows. I have noticed that my clown fish no longer get the shakes while swimming so the ground probe must have fixes something and one of these days I'll know for sure just how/why....

[balloonpilot]

I thought I'd give the SPS experts a try and posted my issue of not being able to keep SPSs in my JBJ tank.

A couple suggestions came of this...

1) Tank is too clean. remove carbon/phosban filter and reduce water changes (number and volume). I think Im going to try removing the filter and keepign up with weekly water changes (but do 5 gal vice 10).

2) Too much light. Not from a tank placement perspective but from a duration. Im currently doing 10hr of MH and it was suggested to reduce to no more than 8.

3) Reduce the Alk. i've been trying to keep my Alk 9.6 to 10 (closer to 10) and the suggestion was to keep around 8 (which I believe is NSW). Not certain I want to do this, anyone have comments?

[Sci_Man SF]

Originally Posted by balloonpilot

I thought I'd give the SPS experts a try and posted my issue of not being able to keep SPSs in my JBJ tank.

A couple suggestions came of this...

1) Tank is too clean. remove carbon/phosban filter and reduce water changes (number and volume). I think Im going to try removing the filter and keepign up with weekly water changes (but do 5 gal vice 10).

2) Too much light. Not from a tank placement perspective but from a duration. Im currently doing 10hr of MH and it was suggested to reduce to no more than 8.

3) Reduce the Alk. i've been trying to keep my Alk 9.6 to 10 (closer to 10) and the suggestion was to keep around 8 (which I believe is NSW). Not certain I want to do this, anyone have comments?

I think that all are things that may keep growth/color of SPS less then optimal but shouldn't cause RTN/bleaching/death you have been experiencing. Although... I am not entirely conviced that this is sound advice in general.

1)My ALK is 10-11 (high ALK can limit calcium levels/absporption but also adds stability to pH).
2)My MH lighing is 8hrs (coral seas get around 6-8hrs of intense sunlight and MH bulbs don't even come close).
3)Tank can never be too clean compared to ocean. Carbon may cause levels of iodine/trace elements to drop but again shouldn't kill coral.

Also, you can keep most SPS with just a good salt mix. when you get a lot of SPS/clams you need to really start dosing, but a few frags don't demand a lot of additional additives/dosing. As long as your readings are accurate I think that your water parameters/lighting are ok.

Try getting a frag of a hardy coral (i.e. monti cap or monti digi) from another reefer from an established colony. You should have no problem with keeping them in this tank (stock)

[iFisch]

Originally Posted by balloonpilot

I thought I'd give the SPS experts a try and posted my issue of not being able to keep SPSs in my JBJ tank.

A couple suggestions came of this...

1) Tank is too clean. remove carbon/phosban filter and reduce water changes (number and volume). I think Im going to try removing the filter and keepign up with weekly water changes (but do 5 gal vice 10).

2) Too much light. Not from a tank placement perspective but from a duration. Im currently doing 10hr of MH and it was suggested to reduce to no more than 8.

3) Reduce the Alk. i've been trying to keep my Alk 9.6 to 10 (closer to 10) and the suggestion was to keep around 8 (which I believe is NSW). Not certain I want to do this, anyone have comments?

1. I doubt it. Too clean usually is = 0 N03/P04. Having 0 of both, can be bad. What's your Salifert saying? Most heavy SPS users have very little of both, and nutrients, also called ULNS or an ultra-low-nutrient-system. A mixed reef would have probably double to triple the amount the nutrients.

2. Very possible. Some Acro's take some time to acclimate to more lighting than they originally came from. And no, less wattage does not mean less light. For instance a 150w over a 14g, years ago, you were thought stupid. Now, it's the most commonly used type of light. I run my MH right NOW for 6 hours. Every week I bump it up 30 minutes, until I'm back around 8 hours (due to bulb change). If I don't see any unsighly algae growth from excess MH exposure.

3. ULNS (ultra low nutrient system) users keep Alk around 7/8. NSW, I believe is around 7.5 averaged out.

[balloonpilot]

IFisch -

Nitrate is 5 and Phosphate is zero (both using Salifert).

I can correlate the reduction in size of my chaeto (in refug) to the installation of carbon/phosban filter... Maybe not true, but its reduced since Ive been running it.
So are you saying NOT to remove the filter and maybe just keep water changes every week at 5 gal?

I'll try reduce the light period, although existing SPS are gone.

What is an ultra low nutrient system?

[iFisch]

Originally Posted by balloonpilot

IFisch -

Nitrate is 5 and Phosphate is zero (both using Salifert).

I can correlate the reduction in size of my chaeto (in refug) to the installation of carbon/phosban filter... Maybe not true, but its reduced since Ive been running it.
So are you saying NOT to remove the filter and maybe just keep water changes every week at 5 gal?

I'll try reduce the light period, although existing SPS are gone.

What is an ultra low nutrient system?

Do you have ANY algae, besides Cheateo in there? ie. unwanted algae?


ULNS:

Knock your socks off:


http://aquatic-store.co.uk/news/26/z...utrient-system

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/f...play.php?f=320

http://www.worldwidereefers.com/foru...splay.php?f=63


...google, and you can search around here.

[balloonpilot]

Nope... Just some mud/live sand, live rock and a couple large handfuls of cheato.

So Im not sure I want to persue the low nutrient system and having said that I dont think I want my Alk to be lower than 9 (sound good )

[Raggamuffin]

Hi new to the club and have a question right off the bat!

I have the HQI 150, looking for suggestions for a bulb to replace the stock one without having to mod the hood at all. Since I am still in the cycling phase and will be for at least another couple months I'm in no rush but am looking for the following:

1: best to grow SPS
2: after I have grown the frags out a little which is the best for looks not caring so much for growth?

Plan for the tank is a ric sand bed in the alcoves that don't get massive flow, some zoos on lower rocks, LPS (maybe 1 or 2) mid level and SPS higher up where I have managed to get alot of good flat spots. I was going to go with a pure TBS tank but Richard doesn't have anything in the way of corals.

[D3monic_Urges]

Obviously 10k is better for growth but has an ugly color to it. 14-20k would give you nice color. I have a radium 20k bulb.

[iFisch]

What do you have for water movement? How many gph?

[sahin]

[sahin]

I put a phoenix 14K bulb in mine, however, due to the magnetic ballast, the colour is just a brilliant white with a small hint of blue in it. Going to try a radium nex, or else will ugrade to an eletronic ballast which will burn a bit cooler.

[iFisch]

Originally Posted by sahin

I put a phoenix 14K bulb in mine, however, due to the magnetic ballast, the colour is just a brilliant white with a small hint of blue in it. Going to try a radium nex, or else will ugrade to an eletronic ballast which will burn a bit cooler.

What ballast are you using?

[sahin]

I am using the stock balast supplied to JBJ customers here in the UK. It looks identicle to the US version, I think it just has a differant transformer for 240volts, all else is same.

[iFisch]

Originally Posted by sahin

I am using the stock balast supplied to JBJ customers here in the UK. It looks identicle to the US version, I think it just has a differant transformer for 240volts, all else is same.

I would recommend upgrading to Icecaps.

Icecaps + Phoenix = nice.

[Chemistry Guy]

Has anyone plumbed in a sump without drilling? I'd like to add a 10 or 20 gallon sump to my 28 nano cube and looking for advice specifically on how to set up the return line. Am I going to have to cut a hole in my hood?

[Raggamuffin]

Originally Posted by iFisch

What do you have for water movement? How many gph?

Have 1 of the crud stock return pumps (226gph), the pump running my chiller (550-600 approx because of head lose but may be higher because I reduced from 3/4 to 5/8) and since I am still in the cycling stage I'm still looking for 2x k2's or a k3, will have 1000-1200 gph by the time I'm done or 30-40x turn over.

[balloonpilot]

iFisch

I've replaced the stop pumps with MaxiJet 1200's and I've got one Vortech MP-10 (set to Reef Crest Mode w/ max power).

Ive tried a Montipora - it 'was' green and brown when I got it.... in less than 2 weeks it turned white but still had polyps extened - now they dont extend and the piece has started to accumulate red alge