Want to buy Apex but I’m seeing problems

[RobbyG]

Neptune has pretty much strong Armed the American market. It's really hard for other companies from Europe to get their foot in the door and if they do they get almost zero promotion from the major vendors (Tons of videos by BRS on the Apex but none on the others, do they even sell GHL controllers?).



What Apex lacks for in accuracy and dependability it makes up for in marketing. I will give them credit and say that the Dashboard is a nice piece of software but then whats the point if you cannot trust the readings from half of your probes. As most of you know I love Aquatronica but that is a bust in the USA for now. They are busy making money in the EU and Asia. GHL is certainly a very good system that gives readings that are consistent and trustworthy. Only thing is that it's not cheap!


Rob

[ohashimz]

Originally Posted by RobbyG

Neptune has pretty much strong Armed the American market. It's really hard for other companies from Europe to get their foot in the door and if they do they get almost zero promotion from the major vendors. What Apex lacks for in accuracy and dependability it makes up for in marketing. I will give them credit and say that the Dashboard is a nice piece of software but then whats the point if you cannot trust the readings from half of your probes. As most of you know I love Aquatronica but that is a bust in the USA for now. They are busy making money in the EU and Asia. GHL is certainly a very good system that gives readings that are consistent and ones that you can trust. Only thing is that it's not cheap!


Rob

Ghl is getting better and better in USA with distribution center on the east cost.
I switched to p4 after much thinking and never been happier.
On the price funny thing was when I did apple to apple comparisons ghl was cheaper. Ghl p4 comes packed with functions that requires module over module with neptune.
So when I compared function to function ghl came 200$ cheaper with leas wires and modules.
In the past ghl interface was sucky...typical german engineering). But now their web, app and local interfaces are absolutely solid...it was more intuitive than apex without all the coding and error junctions.

[RobbyG]

Originally Posted by ohashimz

Ghl is getting better and better in USA with distribution center on the east cost.
I switched to p4 after much thinking and never been happier.
On the price funny thing was when I did apple to apple comparisons ghl was cheaper. Ghl p4 comes packed with functions that requires module over module with neptune.
So when I compared function to function ghl came 200$ cheaper with leas wires and modules.
In the past ghl interface was sucky...typical german engineering). But now their web, app and local interfaces are absolutely solid...it was more intuitive than apex without all the coding and error junctions.

I just checked BRS and the don't even sell GHL controllers, only the dosing pumps. Of the big two only Marine Depot sells GHL.



I am glad that you were able to get the system for $200 cheaper. When i started adding things it seemed like it was going to be a lot more than Apex or Aquatronica. I still cannot trust my Tank to Apex, it's fine if your the kind of person who monitors stuff regularly and does not let the monitoring info factor into your dosing or control info without double checking.

[ohashimz]

Originally Posted by RobbyG

I just checked BRS and the don't even sell GHL controllers, only the dosing pumps. Of the big two only Marine Depot sells GHL.



I am glad that you were able to get the system for $200 cheaper. When i started adding things it seemed like it was going to be a lot more than Apex or Aquatronica. I still cannot trust my Tank to Apex, it's fine if your the kind of person who monitors stuff regularly and does not let the monitoring info factor into your dosing or control info without double checking.

Ghl sell directly as well as on marine depot. I think brs partnership with Neptune is holding them back a bit.
I got the ultimate package which was around 1100$
Same functions using apex would have costed at least 1400$.
Apex package was 800$,
add pm1 with salinity prob 220$
Add breakout box 50$
Add atk module 200$,
add leak detection module or add fmm if you want flow meter support as well 200$..etc.
add o2 prob which Neptune sell at 700$ then u add its module another 100$. (Ghl do not need module for o2, and their o2 prob is less than 200$ if my memory serve me still)

With p4 (550$) all the above and more (except the o2 prob and the ATO floats.) Are supported without modules and in case of ultimate package came in the box without.

Curious what did you need that you did not find in the p4 and ended up increasing the cost?

Edit: this is ghl web link. They sell from their distribution in new Jersey I believe.
https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/usa...ux/profilux-4/

[Johnic]

Originally Posted by ohashimz

Ghl sell directly as well as on marine depot. I think brs partnership with Neptune is holding them back a bit.
I got the ultimate package which was around 1100$
Same functions using apex would have costed at least 1400$.
Apex package was 800$,
add pm1 with salinity prob 220$
Add breakout box 50$
Add atk module 200$,
add leak detection module or add fmm if you want flow meter support as well 200$..etc.
add o2 prob which Neptune sell at 700$ then u add its module another 100$. (Ghl do not need module for o2, and their o2 prob is less than 200$ if my memory serve me still)

With p4 (550$) all the above and more (except the o2 prob and the ATO floats.) Are supported without modules and I'm case of ultimate package came in the box without.

Curious what did you need that you did not find in the p4 and ended up increasing the cost?

I have the GHL Doser 2.1 and it works great, very accurate. The only problem is, its not user friendly when trying to connect to it remotely. I cant seem to get it setup for remote access.

[ohashimz]

Originally Posted by Johnic

I have the GHL Doser 2.1 and it works great, very accurate. The only problem is, its not user friendly when trying to connect to it remotely. I cant seem to get it setup for remote access.

How come, I have the doser and its remote control is good.
What exactly are you not able to do? Did you follow the instructions and it did not connect?

[Johnic]

Originally Posted by ohashimz

How come, I have the doser and its remote control is good.
What exactly are you not able to do? Did you follow the instructions and it did not connect?

I can’t seem to get the doser connected to the WiFi in my house.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ohashimz]

Originally Posted by Johnic

I can’t seem to get the doser connected to the WiFi in my house.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you be bit more specific. At which point the proccess if breaking? What is your connection setup like?

[Johnic]

Originally Posted by ohashimz

Can you be bit more specific. At which point the proccess if breaking? What is your connection setup like?

I have it setup but I’m not sure I have the ip settings correct. I’m tech savvy but the gateway, subnet mask etc and those settings I inputted are not working.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ohashimz]

Also ghl released Profilux wifi mini and light. It's also a good low coat option. But I personally would go with p4 just because it's so much future proof.

https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/usa...lux-mini-wifi/

[Johnic]

Originally Posted by ohashimz

Also ghl released Profilux wifi mini and light. It's also a good low coat option. But I personally would go with p4 just because it's so much future proof.

https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/usa...lux-mini-wifi/

What is this. Does it auto connect my doser to WiFi ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ohashimz]

Originally Posted by Johnic

What is this. Does it auto connect my doser to WiFi ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry not, this is one of their controllers. Lower price point. Like apex lite..

[ohashimz]

Originally Posted by Johnic

I have it setup but I’m not sure I have the ip settings correct. I’m tech savvy but the gateway, subnet mask etc and those settings I inputted are not working.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you watch this
https://youtu.be/PHCcd1tQQrA

[ohashimz]

Btw are you using the app? Ince you add the doser yo the app you should have the ability to connect to it anywhere...

[Johnic]

Originally Posted by ohashimz

Did you watch this
https://youtu.be/PHCcd1tQQrA

Gonna watch it now and try again. Ya. I’ve watched this too. Weird why I can’t get it going


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ohashimz]

Originally Posted by Johnic

Gonna watch it now and try again. Ya. I’ve watched this too. Weird why I can’t get it going


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just ping them, thay are good with support. Call their USA number, they should help you. I have the doser snd it's amazing. I do not have issues with the remote control I followed the instructions and added the doser to the app, once that happen I can control the doser anywhere.

[Johnic]

Originally Posted by ohashimz

Just ping them, thay are good with support. Call their USA number, they should help you. I have the doser snd it's amazing. I do not have issues with the remote control I followed the instructions and added the doser to the app, once that happen I can control the doser anywhere.

Just tried again and it didn’t work. I was able to ping my ip but it won’t connect. Maybe it my port or firewall


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RobbyG]

You cannot just access it like that with most controllers. Unless the company uses a web service system to negotiate the connection. Aquatronica uses such a system and I believe Neptune also has it (not 100% sure on that)


The problem is your dealing with two IP's.


Your Internal house IP which may be something like 192.168.0.xxx
And your ISP given IP which can be just about anything like 99.103.20.102


So yes if you ping 99.103.20.102 you will get back a response from the router but it has no way to talk to the controller which in this case would be on the internal house IP range like eg. 192.168.0.123


So first you need to set your controller to a static IP in the menu settings and turn off DHCP. So in this example the setting in the controller should look like this.


Device IP: 192.168.0.123
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.0.1
DNS: 192.168.0.1
DNS2: 8.8.8.8 (Assuming you have a DNS2 option)



Then you need to go into the advanced settings of your router and setup port forwarding.
You will have to read up on this for your router model.



You will set it up so that anything that comes in on port eg. 2040 is forwarded to 192.168.0.123


So when that is done if you put in http://99.103.20.102:2040
the outside connection will be routed to the controller. You cannot test this while on the same IP at home. You can turn off the WiFi on your phone and use the 4G on your phone and test it as that will have a different Internet IP than your home system.


If you want to access the controller on your home network then you would just put in 192.168.0.123 and it would work fine.


The only variable in all of this is knowing the IP of your home system. You can find that out via networking on a connected PC or in the router or by looking at what the IP is that your phone is using when it is on the WiFi by going into it's network settings.


The internet IP to your house can be found by going into google and typing in "Whats my IP"


Once done just bookmark the the two connections:
I use to label them as


1) Aquarium Local
2) Aquarium Remote


If your using a dedicated app you will have to put in the connection setting into that.

Rob

[Johnic]

Originally Posted by RobbyG

You cannot just access it like that with most controllers. Unless the company uses a web service system to negotiate the connection. Aquatronica uses such a system and I believe Neptune also has it (not 100% sure on that)


The problem is your dealing with two IP's.


Your Internal house IP which may be something like 192.168.0.xxx
And your ISP given IP which can be just about anything like 99.103.20.102


So yes if you ping 99.103.20.102 you will get back a response from the router but it has no way to talk to the controller which in this case may be on the internal house IP range like eg. 192.168.0.123


So first you need to set your controller to a static IP in the menu settings and turn off DHCP. So in this example the setting in the controller should look like this.


Device IP: 192.168.0.123
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.0.1
DNS: 192.168.0.1

DNS2: 8.8.8.8 (Assuming you have a DNS2 option)



Then you need to go into the advanced settings of your router and setup port forwarding.


You will set it up so that anything that comes in on port eg. 2040 is forwarded to 192.168.0.123


So when that is done if you put in http://99.103.20.102:2040
the outside connection will be routed to the controller. You cannot test this while on the same IP at home. You can turn off the WiFi on your phone ans use the 4G on your phone and test it as that will have a different Internet IP than your home system.


If you want to access the controller on your home network then you would just put in 192.168.0.123 and it would work fine.


The only variable in all of this is knowing the IP of your home system. You can find that out via networking on a connected PC or in the router or by looking at what the IP is that your phone is using when it is on the WiFi by going into it's network settings.


The internet IP in your house can be found by going into google and typing in "Whats my IP"



Rob

Awesome. I’ll give this a try tomorrow. Playing around with too long tonight and loosing my patience.
Thanks for very informative breakdown Rob.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RobbyG]

For some reason I cannot Quote a message on this forum. If I press the button I just get a blank message window.


Johnic just wanted to clarify one thing because I have no idea about your computer skills. I apologize if I am making this overly simplistic.


The Local IP on your home may start with 192.168.xxx.xxx but it can be any number of IP's. Some house use 10.0.0.X and so forth. Typically the router will always end with "1" so that's why in my example I used 192.168.0.1 as the gateway, as in gateway to talk to the router directly. Every other device in your house will be something other than "1". So when picking an IP for the controller make sure it is not already in use if you can. If not just try something like 27 or 36. The chances of these being in use are much slimmer than 2 through 10.


Lastly the first thing you want to check before setting up port forwarding is that you can connect to the controller on your home IP range. So after you change the setting in the controller try to reach it on a Laptop connected to the Wifi by going to it's IP or with the app using the local IP. In my example that would be 192.168.0.123 If that works then move on to port forwarding and try connecting via an outside network like your 4G with the Internet IP and port.



Good luck
Rob

[Johnic]

Originally Posted by RobbyG

For some reason I cannot Quote a message on this forum. If I press the button I just get a blank message window.


Johnic just wanted to clarify one thing because I have no idea about your computer skills. I apologize if I am making this overly simplistic.


The Local IP on your home may start with 192.168.xxx.xxx but it can be any number of IP's. Some house use 10.0.0.X and so forth. Typically the router will always end with "1" so that's why in my example I used 192.168.0.1 as the gateway, as in gateway to talk to the router directly. Every other device in your house will be something other than "1". So when picking an IP for the controller make sure it is not already in use if you can. If not just try something like 27 or 36. The chances of these being in use are much slimmer than 2 through 10.


Good luck
Rob

Gotcha. I was able to find out all the router settings in command line using ipconfig and used these in the ghl settings with no luck. I need to port forward like you explained before.

Just sucks that it’s not easily done like a WiFi camera that I can buy for 25$. The ghl doser isn’t cheap and should be designed better for ease of setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ohashimz]

I still do not understand why you need to do all this.
If you use ghl app, once you set up the doser you should add it to the app. Once that happen the app will take control of the doser and you no longer need to access the doser directly rather via the app from anywhere

[Johnic]

Originally Posted by ohashimz

I still do not understand why you need to do all this.
If you use ghl app, once you set up the doser you should add it to the app. Once that happen the app will take control of the doser and you no longer need to access the doser directly rather via the app from anywhere

Currently the doser can’t not access the doser from outside the house. It doesn’t connect to the web.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ohashimz]

Originally Posted by Johnic

Currently the doser can’t not access the doser from outside the house. It doesn’t connect to the web.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is the doser added to ghl app successfully? If yes you should be able to controll the doser anywhere via the app...

[RobbyG]

Can you access the rest of the equipment from outside the house?
If you can that means that GHL is already running a web portal for you like Aquatronica.


You would not need port forwarding as the controller itself is contacting the GHL servers and it is opening a connection that the App can access.



If that is the case the dosing pump should just be another device connected to the controller.


If the App cannot remotely connect at all then you have a port forwarding issue.


Rob