Cold/Temperate Water Reef

[Ciarán]

Holy moley abalone! Man that is spectacular!

Most have just not been exposed to the possibilities and opportunities that come with a temperate system.

You are too right, what better way to take the pressure of the tropical reefs? I was considering setting up a large tropical set up, i am now reconsidering. Thanks so much for this epiphany! Amazing set up.

Major kudos!

[finsurgeon]

Love your set-up Steve! I was at the Oregon Coast Aquarium last week and was extremely impressed. All of their tanks are cold/temperate and they have many impressive and colorful species that I had never encountered. I especially liked the strawberry anemones of many color variations, as well as red and pink striped, giant greens, and others. The sea pens were very cool, as were the sand dollars and the many beautiful sea stars and the bright orange "burrowing cucumber". They may have some advice for you (as if you needed any) or others. I came away impressed and excited - but some of the excitement has cooled after finding little chance of obtaining much in the way of livestock here in Texas. I will watch this thread, though, hoping to see more.

[sleizure]

I am currently in the proces of getting my diving certification and coincidentally moving back to the west coast of canada looking forward to doing some dives. One of my major motivators for this is I would like to start up a temperate reef with a 65gallon tank that I will be bringing with me and continuing the "tropical" reef addiction on a 220. I once read a book at the bookstore of the marine life in the pacific northwest and I haven't thought the same since. Seeing this thread just motivates me more to have an open house to get this house sold

[Herpervet]

Awesome stuff Steve.


Some of the fish pics are tropical right? (i.e. Box fish, Calleplesiops sp. and the trigger)

What is the bottom dwelling fish? Sea robin or gudgeon of some sort? Really unusal creature.

[steveweast]

There's no trigger.....just the white bar box, the shaw's box, catalina gobies, the western blue devil, a few perch, seahorses, and the grunt sculpin. The fish are not tropical...they come from the temperate waters of southern Australia (the grunt sculpin comes from Puget Sound though). I've corresponded with one of the collectors over there in Perth....and their temps are around 58 -62.....so....I keep my cold tanks a little cool for the fish....but a little warm for the Puget Sound stuff....which would perfer temps at 50.....but tolerable for all. Some of the fish that I have do sometimes come through the warm water trade....but, they are really temperate animals and will only last a few months at warmer reef temps.

[Herpervet]

Thanks for the info Steve. I have always felt that collectors should give some basic data when they sell creatures. (depth, temp, etc) so we can match their requirements.

[JHemdal]

Herpervet:

It is more like the retail dealers that ought to be doling out the information - the collectors are just too removed from the final consumer. I see those temperate Australian marines being sold as tropicals all the time, and I agree with steveweast, they burn out rather fast. I typically use a maximum of 72 degrees F. for these fish, with a target of 68 and a minimum of around 64. Because the physical ranges of these fish varies through temperate Australia, not all the species have exactly the same requirements. For example, moonlighters, talma butterflyfish and stripeys will do fine up to at least 78 degrees. Ornate cowfish are more stenothermic and really don't do well outside of the low 60's.
TFH just published a book of mine, "Advanced Marine Aquarium Techniques" that (in part) covers the husbandry of many of these temperate species - including some really nice temperate Japanese species. My MACNA talk mentioned above was derived from that - I just hope the book sells better than might be indicated by the attendance at that talk!

Jay Hemdal

[steveweast]

My conversation with the white bar collector was very enlightening......basically, he collects in the temperate waters off of Perth.....the fish are flown 3000 miles away to a distribution point in the city Cairnes (which is a warm water port on the warm Coral Sea).....the fish are then distributed to the US. Our wholesalers buy the fish thinking that they are from the Coral Sea.....ie....that they are warm water.....the misinformation then gets passed down the line to the hobbiest. Everytime a few of the white bars hit the US wholesalers, I get an email about their care since mine is on my website. The hobbiests are always surprised to find out that they are cold water and will last only a few months in the warm water. They are then angry that their online sourse or LFS didn't tell them that the fish is cold water.....the fact is....they may not have known since very few cold Australian critters make it into our market each year.

[Herpervet]

The same kind of things happen in the reptile trade. Unless you are buying directly from the collector you can get misinformation or simply error my omission.

BTW, I have visited your site on numerous occasions and I must admit I thought the whitebar boxfish was in your tropical reef because it was on the front page.

You might want to include a statment or something to help folks from making a sad (and very expensive) mistake.

I have had that fish in the back of my mind for a while and had considered ordering one mainly because it's beauty is indellibly etched on my brain from looking at your site.

(PLEASE Don't take offense as I have nothing but admiration for your skill's and success as a hobbyist.)

P.S. Is that a feather star/Crinoid? How long have you had it and what are you feeding?

[steveweast]

Originally posted by Herpervet
The same kind of things happen in the reptile trade. Unless you are buying directly from the collector you can get misinformation or simply error my omission.

BTW, I have visited your site on numerous occasions and I must admit I thought the whitebar boxfish was in your tropical reef because it was on the front page.

You might want to include a statment or something to help folks from making a sad (and very expensive) mistake.

I have had that fish in the back of my mind for a while and had considered ordering one mainly because it's beauty is indellibly etched on my brain from looking at your site.

(PLEASE Don't take offense as I have nothing but admiration for your skill's and success as a hobbyist.)

P.S. Is that a feather star/Crinoid? How long have you had it and what are you feeding?

No offense taken.....you're absolutely correct. I've had my white bar for a little over 2 1/2 years now....in fact...it was that fish that put me on the road to cold water reef keeping. I kept him in my warm water reef's refugium for about 6 weeks while I readied his cold tank. His colors improved so much when he finally got back into cold water. When I update my site, it will include a complete section on the cold water system......I keep waiting until I'm completely satisfied with the cold tanks before updating the site. I never thought my having the white bar on my site would pose a problem since VERY few are ever imported into this country...but....recently there have been a few and it could pose a problem.

The crinoid came to me as a filler in a box of Australian fish....I never ordered him....but, he's now 2 years old and is doing great with new growth. I don't feed him directly...but, the tank in general is heavily fed with mysis, krill, rotifers, cyclopeeze and I always bring back live plankton from my dive trips.

[WarrenG]

Great photos!

I've done a fair bit of diving in CA and most of the invertebrates seem to thrive in water with lots of plankton in the water (a main reason the visibility is only 20-30% of what's found in tropical locales) . How do you provide this much food for the animals in your tank without creating problems from all the food going in the tank?


NOT colorless and bland...
http://www.usvh.com/Monterey.html

[2fishy]

Wow! Those are awesome pictures!

[steveweast]

There is no doubt that theses critters demand alot of food. I feed them five times a week. I'm under no illusion that the cold water tank's water quality is as good as in my sps reef.....but with a powerful slimmer and frequent large water changes....it isn't that bad either.

[AcroSteve]

Steve, those tanks looks great.

Do you have any plans on putting them in your house someplace? Or is it destined to remain in your sump room?


And, any particular reason for the two seperate tanks?

[steveweast]

someday I might set up a real cold water display tank in the house.

There are two tanks because a few things are not compatable with large cold water anemones....like seahorses and small box fish.

[reefez]

Stunning photos Steve! So what are the main things you perform as far as husbandry on this tank? Weekly water changes? Do you need to supplament Ca? Man I have a thousand questions! How many gallons is the tank? And how long have you had it running? Is the thickness of the acrylic to keep the sweating down to a minimum? Sorry for the flood of questions but sheesh! This could be the beginning of a revolution Are all of the creatures non photosynthic? Thanks for all your help..

Rob

[steveweast]

1) the vast majority of cold water critters are non photosynthetic...there are a couple of tidal anemones out there that are somewhat photosynthetic ....but, that's about it.

2) Husbandtry is no different than warm water tanks.....except that there's no coralline algae to deal with. I water change around 50% once a month.

3) My total system....tanks and sump...is about 180 gals.

4) he syem has been running for about 18months now.

5) the 1" acrylic is indeed to prevent sweating.

6) There are no calcium additions necessary since there are very few stonies in cold water. The only stonies that I have are a type of tubastrea....and oysters. I do run my top off water through a kalk reactor to help with pH though.

[reefez]

Thanks For the info Steve. That is yet another amazing tank!

[latazyo]

anyone who thinks temperate tanks are dull is crazy

steveweast's tank has some of the most amazing creatures and fish I have ever seen

that is awesome

steve,

are those all things you can see off the coast of PAC NW?

[steveweast]

Most of the fish and some of the starfish are from the temperate regions of Australia.....everything else is from Puget Sound.

[bboyin4lyf]

steveweast: abosuletly amazing to say the least.

Im from melbourne (southern australia where steve's fish are collected from) and dive frequently. The colours of the sponges and invertbrate life out does the great barrier reef any day of the week. The fish biomass isnt as great but the diversity is incredible. The main issue with temperatre species is that many of them are endemic to certain areas making there collection difficult to say the least whereas many reef species can be found in a variety of locations.

[bboyin4lyf]

Also,

Check out this link for an example of some of the macro life we encounter down here. This was taken about 5 minutes from my house

http://www.sims.monash.edu.au/staff/...ock/index.html

[reefez]

I love the tidepool areas along the Oregon Washington coast. The green and purple tidal anenomes and starfish. Are the tidepool creatures we see on the PNW coast able to be in your tanks Steve? It looks like the majority of your livestock is from the temprate regions off of Australia.

[GreshamH]

All his anemones are from the PNW, and at least the grunt. All the PNW nearshore critters are just fine for this

[steveweast]

Only some of my fish and a couple of stars are from Australia..... the majority of the tank's critters are from Puget Sound and include anemones, rocks, plants, oysters, fish, stars, barnacles and nudibranchs.