Zoanthids are they toxic? - Page 3

tgrupert · 03/03/2003, 12:31 AM

Is it posible there was a frag floating around and your dog ate it?

This is really sad. I hope you are okay. it's kinda funny how we go nuts if a dog trys to eat poop, but this event wouldn't bother most people.

my cat died a couple years ago and that's how I got back int aquariums. it was very hard for me to deal with the lose of my cat and I blamed it on myself even tough she was 14. I hope you are okay.

I run a reef aquarium club at a day care center and this story is great, and a much better example compared to anthony calfos adventures with palytoxins that would seem almost fun to a 5 year old. Almost like alice in wonderland.

Bowman · 03/03/2003, 12:32 AM

Kevin I can't tell you how bad I felt when I read this earlier today my heart goes out to you and your family. I was taking a break from my tank and checked the boards. Something so inocent that most of us never give it a second thought, at least until now. Thanks for sharing your loss, may we all be more vigalant in our propagation. Again sincere condolences.

John

Maury · 03/03/2003, 12:37 AM

Kevin, so sorry for your loss, your dog looks exactly like mine.

I used to have zoos in my 210, but my emperor angel ate them all. Still have a few colonies of green zoos in my 55.

Here's a question, if they are so toxic, how could my emperor eat them like popcorn, wiped 'em out in a day. I know that the obvious answer is that mine were not the toxic kind, but zooanthid polyps are one of the corals that are frequently nipped at by angels. Anyone have any problems with frequent death of angelfish with polyps in the tank? I'd just think that we'd hear a lot more about it.

Paradigm · 03/03/2003, 01:08 AM

Kevin,

I would again like to say how sorry i am for your loss! I wish i could have been more help! Being a dog lover and having met your dog, i send my deepest condolences to you and your family.

It is really great to to see this many people reply so quickly to such a terrible event. I light of this event and the overwhelming lack of knowlegde for coral and zoos toxic abilities...with your permission i would like to copy your initial post , and with a little additional info, give it to the LFS's in my area, in hope to avoid any future tragedy like this!

ray

BlennyBabe · 03/03/2003, 01:27 AM

I offer my utmost condolences to you and your family. I lost my beagle last weekend. She was hit by a speeding car on a near by road. My family is going through the same sort of loss as yours, so I know you are very sad. The picture of your beautiful dog made me cry. Its very similar to my dog Daphne, (affectionately called Weasle.) Thank you for sharing your experience. I have never worn gloves when dealing with my tanks. I will for sure now.

SSEAL · 03/03/2003, 06:36 AM

Kevin

I am so very sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences to you and your family.

Thank you for make all of us more aware of the dangers in our reef tanks. I would have never giving it a second thought about the dangers of evening just handling the zoo's. I will take caution in the future.

Again, I am sorry about your loss,

sseal

delafe · 03/03/2003, 08:26 AM

WOW! What a wakeup call. I was looking at that picture of "flesh colored" zoos, and realized that I have a patch which I brought back from a dive trip in the Carib. Also kept reading, and realized that I had several of the green/blue ones which I spent several hours fragging, and which I had yanked off a rock on the beach in Puerto Rico with my bare hands.

Thanks for the warning, and sorry to hear about your loss.

-Alfred

Frick-n-Frags · 03/03/2003, 09:28 AM

Awwwww jeeeez Kevin. That really really sucks.

Sorry man.

On an equally serious note:
Those of you that got sun zooanthids from me (I handed out 4) remember, the P. grandis(sun zooanthid) is the palytoxin king.

I mentioned in the swap announcement my sun zooanthid frag lore and I will repeat it(or something like it):

When I fragged these guys Sat am before the swap, I cut the mat with a razor and carefully worked under the mat with the razor and a scalpel to minimize tissue trauma. Where I cut and dinged the mat, white milky juice (the palytoxin) oozed out.
Typically there are pods that get into the fragwater bucket because they were on the frag victim's rock and they just run around in the bucket. Not this time. They all dropped dead immediately after the white juice hit the water.

I made sure I was rinsing everything that touched the toxin off into the sink immediately after use. I just kept the water running. I even changed their fragwater twice and handled them with tweezers until they calmed down. I rinsed all the buckets, my piece of HD fako marble tile cutting board and all tools that I thought may have touched that juice AND my hands. I brought them to the swap in their own container of water just in case.

When these guys aren't cut, they don't ooze palytoxin. The other zoos and buttons(also species of Protopalythoa) have varying degrees of the toxin. I have not had any bad repurcussions from the cut pieces after putting them back in the tank and I have been doing a huge amount of zoo fragging this past month.

I suggest and hope you all adopt these more rigid handling procedures for yours and all innocent passersby. (Just in case any of you haven't read up thoroughly on zoo's and sun zoo's in particular)

Everyone now please turn to page 184 in Eric Borneman's "Corals, Selection..." book look at the pic on the top of the page, then read the text regarding the "Protopalythoa Genus" thank you.

Once again, sorry Kevin.

edit to comment on Maury's post about the angelfish: The various animals on the reefs have evolved by eating each other, creating defenses and overcoming others' defenses. There are many documented cases of this. certain animals have adapted to eating certain compounds that may be lethal to other animals.

Anthony, if you're out there, your oral fixations are going to kill you

rhiggsbear · 03/03/2003, 12:10 PM

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. It is a very sad situation.

Thank you very much for sharing this with us and giving all of us a warning to be careful.

fishymissy · 03/03/2003, 12:18 PM

I want to offer my condolences too......how very sad to lose your pet and how awful to lose her in such a bizarre way. I never would have known about the zoo's poison if you hadn't posted about it. So thank you for doing so. I'm going out now to buy some gloves........

clamster · 03/03/2003, 12:59 PM

kevin_kramer,

Wow! Thanks so much for sharing. As long as we heed this warning, some good comes from this.

Man, that's sad. Can you tell that if the dog had actually ingested the some of the zoo's, or just drank from the tub.

This could have some serious implications if we use our mouths to siphon tank water full of zoo's.

FishyinKY · 03/03/2003, 01:35 PM

Gawd what a sad story. I'm so sorry for your loss and I did want to make a suggestion. I told my veterinarian that I had fish tanks and the toxic species I carried just in case there was the possibility of a problem. I also let my pediatrician know. Did they think I was nuts? yet BUT they also are now prepared just in case. In your case Kev I don't think there is any known help but we hope all our well wishes and sobs that go with yours help to comfort you some.

Mac

Lunchbucket · 03/03/2003, 01:48 PM

i am truely sorry....i am at a loss for words.

my sympathy is w/ you

Lunchbucket

MarksReef · 03/03/2003, 02:07 PM

OHh That is a real bummer. My sincere condolences to you and your family. Thank you for sharing your warning. from now on Astro (my husky) can't help w/ chores and I'll be more carefull.
Mark

Bluecheese · 03/03/2003, 02:08 PM

Kevin, I am soo sorry for your loss, this is just a very very sad story. And I am so thankful for your post, you have managed to turn this tragedy into an extremely useful and educative thread. I have learned more on zoos and toxins with this post than anywhere I have looked before. I would have never thought that something so pretty could be so toxic.

I had no idea the toxin levels could be so high and I wonder if anyone has ever measured the levels in a tank before and after they get under the scalpel and whether these levels are far away or pretty close to the lethal dose of 4 mg discussed before.

Maury, your observation is very interesting and suggests that since your emperor is immune to the toxin it must have a mechanism to neutralize it. It would be interesting to know if any marine toxicologist is working on this.

For sure my 1 year old son will only be watching for a long time and I will put those wet towels away like the wifey always tells me too...

Sorry again...I agree that maybe something should be done so that we each print some information (or Kevin's story if he agrees) and get it posted to our LFS in our area. Hopefully online distributors will read this post and post info on it too. We have this wondreful opportunity to probably prevent more tragedies and educate people too. Of course some LFS migt not like to sell something that says " This could kill you!"...but I hope I will never read about another deadly zoos story.

Philippe

delafe · 03/03/2003, 02:13 PM

I wonder, what affect does it have on a tank when zoo's crash? Are toxins released into the water?

-Alfred

Maury · 03/03/2003, 02:15 PM

Yes, this has been EXTREMELY informative. I had NEVER heard that zoos were anything but benign. Considered them 'beginner's' corals that didn't need any special precautions/care, etc..

Well, the zoos I have are in my 55 gallon which is in my office. Sice I'm a doctor, there is no shortage of gloves!

delafe · 03/03/2003, 02:48 PM

I wonder, what affect does it have on a tank when zoo's crash? Are toxins released into the water?

-Alfred

musashi666 · 03/03/2003, 03:35 PM

Thank you for sharing your experience and loss of your pet. My sincere condolonces.

-Pete

drscheck · 03/03/2003, 03:43 PM

Kevin,

I am very sorry to hear of your lose. I too, had no idea that they were that toxic.

I feel your sorrow, as I had to put-down a family pet not too long ago. And your picture started to well my eyes, as one of my dogs looks very similar to yours, I couldn't imagine loosing one of my girls.

Char · 03/03/2003, 03:47 PM

I am sick about your loss. As a dog breeder and lover, I do know how your feeling...( I no longer use Fly-Die on the farm).

It was a freak accident, please don't blame yourself, your right, dogs DO get into everything.

Char

afss · 03/03/2003, 04:28 PM

Very very sorry to hear of your loss. We have 2 dogs as well as cats. It may not be much, but atleast take heart in th efact that you may save others animals/children from a similar fate by sharing your story

Scott

Kent E · 03/03/2003, 05:33 PM

I am sorry for your loss, and thank you for sharing with all of us. I had no idea this could ever be a problem.
Kent

Diesel Man · 03/03/2003, 05:50 PM

Did the dog eat a zoo or sniff the zoos or lick the zoos?,? were they in the water or in a bucket without water?
And Im very sorry for your loss.
But if the small dog ate a whole zoo and still took 10hrs to meet his maker, Then maybe just holding them in your hand isnt going to get you. even with a cut.
Im a diesel mechanic and have tons of cuts and scrapes even chew my nails. I also collect zoos, Lots of them and use bare hands to do it and allways have. Ive cut myself on the rocks I was taking the zoos from ripping them up by the handfull from the rocks.
I have lost zoos allover my porch packing and shipping them, my dogs however never pay them any attention, but because of your post Im going to at least pick them up from the ground when they fall and keep the dogs away. I couldnt emagine life without my two jack russels they are my kids.
But I think youd have to rub them(zoos) in a cut to get a buzz and then thats all youd get.
Hey if it can squirt you in the face and your still alive

Then how bad can they be. Theres alot of stuff out there that can kill you in a second. The trick is not to eat it. Or rub it on your lips or your eyes.
Now dogs and kids dont know this, but we do.
Now I have to go flip the zoos there allmost dry and ready to smoke.

kevin_kramer · 03/03/2003, 06:32 PM

For everyone that asked feel free to use this post to inform whomever you want.

I would also like to thank everyone for the messages of condolences. Today the loss of my pet hit me like a ton of bricks. I came home to an empty house. No greeting at the door, no knocking the stuff out of my arms, and no one to give that treat to. I turned the lights off on my tank because I can't bear to look at it now. No, I am not going to get out of reefing but the tank is a source of grief right now. Thanks again for the responses it is really helping through this rough time.

Diesel Man
I to have handled zoos for years with no problem. That is why I posted this. I have no idea if she ate them drank the water or got splashed in the eyes. The point is there is always the chance that someone/something innocent can be hurt by them. From the looks of this thread most people had no idea that the possibility of this even existed. If the life of a beloved pet or child could be saved by this information than the loss of my dog was not in vain.

03/03/2003, 01:08 AM	#54
Paradigm Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cleveland, OH area Posts: 5	loss of a friend! Kevin, I would again like to say how sorry i am for your loss! I wish i could have been more help! Being a dog lover and having met your dog, i send my deepest condolences to you and your family. It is really great to to see this many people reply so quickly to such a terrible event. I light of this event and the overwhelming lack of knowlegde for coral and zoos toxic abilities...with your permission i would like to copy your initial post , and with a little additional info, give it to the LFS's in my area, in hope to avoid any future tragedy like this! ray

03/03/2003, 01:27 AM	#55
BlennyBabe Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gig Harbor, Wa Posts: 661	I offer my utmost condolences to you and your family. I lost my beagle last weekend. She was hit by a speeding car on a near by road. My family is going through the same sort of loss as yours, so I know you are very sad. The picture of your beautiful dog made me cry. Its very similar to my dog Daphne, (affectionately called Weasle.) Thank you for sharing your experience. I have never worn gloves when dealing with my tanks. I will for sure now. __________________ Home is where your tank is... Rachel Current Tank Info: 75 gallon, sps & lps dominated,

03/03/2003, 09:28 AM	#58
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	Awwwww jeeeez Kevin. That really really sucks. Sorry man. On an equally serious note: Those of you that got sun zooanthids from me (I handed out 4) remember, the P. grandis(sun zooanthid) is the palytoxin king. I mentioned in the swap announcement my sun zooanthid frag lore and I will repeat it(or something like it): When I fragged these guys Sat am before the swap, I cut the mat with a razor and carefully worked under the mat with the razor and a scalpel to minimize tissue trauma. Where I cut and dinged the mat, white milky juice (the palytoxin) oozed out. Typically there are pods that get into the fragwater bucket because they were on the frag victim's rock and they just run around in the bucket. Not this time. They all dropped dead immediately after the white juice hit the water. I made sure I was rinsing everything that touched the toxin off into the sink immediately after use. I just kept the water running. I even changed their fragwater twice and handled them with tweezers until they calmed down. I rinsed all the buckets, my piece of HD fako marble tile cutting board and all tools that I thought may have touched that juice AND my hands. I brought them to the swap in their own container of water just in case. When these guys aren't cut, they don't ooze palytoxin. The other zoos and buttons(also species of Protopalythoa) have varying degrees of the toxin. I have not had any bad repurcussions from the cut pieces after putting them back in the tank and I have been doing a huge amount of zoo fragging this past month. I suggest and hope you all adopt these more rigid handling procedures for yours and all innocent passersby. (Just in case any of you haven't read up thoroughly on zoo's and sun zoo's in particular) Everyone now please turn to page 184 in Eric Borneman's "Corals, Selection..." book look at the pic on the top of the page, then read the text regarding the "Protopalythoa Genus" thank you. Once again, sorry Kevin. edit to comment on Maury's post about the angelfish: The various animals on the reefs have evolved by eating each other, creating defenses and overcoming others' defenses. There are many documented cases of this. certain animals have adapted to eating certain compounds that may be lethal to other animals. Anthony, if you're out there, your oral fixations are going to kill you Last edited by Frick-n-Frags; 03/03/2003 at 09:47 AM.

03/03/2003, 12:59 PM	#61
clamster Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 623	kevin_kramer, Wow! Thanks so much for sharing. As long as we heed this warning, some good comes from this. Man, that's sad. Can you tell that if the dog had actually ingested the some of the zoo's, or just drank from the tub. This could have some serious implications if we use our mouths to siphon tank water full of zoo's. __________________ coral is just another pet rock with incidental hitchikers on it Current Tank Info: 180g Oceanic [7x2x2ft]; 2x250W 10kK Ushio; 175W 10kK AB

03/03/2003, 01:48 PM	#63
Lunchbucket Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brookings, SD Posts: 12,924	i am truely sorry....i am at a loss for words. my sympathy is w/ you Lunchbucket __________________ Trying to lose weight by walking is like trying to bake a cake w/ a cigarette lighter - Lunchbucket - "Nancy-Boy Extraordinaire" - maxxII- Current Tank Info: 58gal Oceanic RR, 2x400w MH (20k XM and 10k XM), Deltec PF601 Ca Rx, Deltec AP701 skimmer, mag950 return, iwaki 55rlt w/ an Oceansmotions 4-way unit, Tunze 7300 and 6000 each w/ controller, fluidized po4 rx

03/03/2003, 12:31 AM	#51
tgrupert Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New York Posts: 38	Is it posible there was a frag floating around and your dog ate it? This is really sad. I hope you are okay. it's kinda funny how we go nuts if a dog trys to eat poop, but this event wouldn't bother most people. my cat died a couple years ago and that's how I got back int aquariums. it was very hard for me to deal with the lose of my cat and I blamed it on myself even tough she was 14. I hope you are okay. I run a reef aquarium club at a day care center and this story is great, and a much better example compared to anthony calfos adventures with palytoxins that would seem almost fun to a 5 year old. Almost like alice in wonderland.

03/03/2003, 12:32 AM	#52
Bowman Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: North Royalton, Ohio Posts: 1,104	Kevin I can't tell you how bad I felt when I read this earlier today my heart goes out to you and your family. I was taking a break from my tank and checked the boards. Something so inocent that most of us never give it a second thought, at least until now. Thanks for sharing your loss, may we all be more vigalant in our propagation. Again sincere condolences. John

03/03/2003, 12:37 AM	#53
Maury Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ponchatoula, Louisiana Posts: 419	Kevin, so sorry for your loss, your dog looks exactly like mine. I used to have zoos in my 210, but my emperor angel ate them all. Still have a few colonies of green zoos in my 55. Here's a question, if they are so toxic, how could my emperor eat them like popcorn, wiped 'em out in a day. I know that the obvious answer is that mine were not the toxic kind, but zooanthid polyps are one of the corals that are frequently nipped at by angels. Anyone have any problems with frequent death of angelfish with polyps in the tank? I'd just think that we'd hear a lot more about it.

03/03/2003, 06:36 AM	#56
SSEAL Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Stow, Ohio Posts: 241	Kevin I am so very sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences to you and your family. Thank you for make all of us more aware of the dangers in our reef tanks. I would have never giving it a second thought about the dangers of evening just handling the zoo's. I will take caution in the future. Again, I am sorry about your loss, sseal

03/03/2003, 08:26 AM	#57
delafe Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 208	WOW! What a wakeup call. I was looking at that picture of "flesh colored" zoos, and realized that I have a patch which I brought back from a dive trip in the Carib. Also kept reading, and realized that I had several of the green/blue ones which I spent several hours fragging, and which I had yanked off a rock on the beach in Puerto Rico with my bare hands. Thanks for the warning, and sorry to hear about your loss. -Alfred

03/03/2003, 12:10 PM	#59
rhiggsbear Another Brick in the Wall Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Wenatchee, WA Posts: 571	I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. It is a very sad situation. Thank you very much for sharing this with us and giving all of us a warning to be careful.

03/03/2003, 12:18 PM	#60
fishymissy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 323	I want to offer my condolences too......how very sad to lose your pet and how awful to lose her in such a bizarre way. I never would have known about the zoo's poison if you hadn't posted about it. So thank you for doing so. I'm going out now to buy some gloves........

03/03/2003, 01:35 PM	#62
FishyinKY Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 51	Gawd what a sad story. I'm so sorry for your loss and I did want to make a suggestion. I told my veterinarian that I had fish tanks and the toxic species I carried just in case there was the possibility of a problem. I also let my pediatrician know. Did they think I was nuts? yet BUT they also are now prepared just in case. In your case Kev I don't think there is any known help but we hope all our well wishes and sobs that go with yours help to comfort you some. Mac

03/03/2003, 02:07 PM	#64
MarksReef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Rush, N.Y. Posts: 4,058	OHh That is a real bummer. My sincere condolences to you and your family. Thank you for sharing your warning. from now on Astro (my husky) can't help w/ chores and I'll be more carefull. Mark

03/03/2003, 02:08 PM	#65
Bluecheese Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 51	Thanks for sharing... Kevin, I am soo sorry for your loss, this is just a very very sad story. And I am so thankful for your post, you have managed to turn this tragedy into an extremely useful and educative thread. I have learned more on zoos and toxins with this post than anywhere I have looked before. I would have never thought that something so pretty could be so toxic. I had no idea the toxin levels could be so high and I wonder if anyone has ever measured the levels in a tank before and after they get under the scalpel and whether these levels are far away or pretty close to the lethal dose of 4 mg discussed before. Maury, your observation is very interesting and suggests that since your emperor is immune to the toxin it must have a mechanism to neutralize it. It would be interesting to know if any marine toxicologist is working on this. For sure my 1 year old son will only be watching for a long time and I will put those wet towels away like the wifey always tells me too... Sorry again...I agree that maybe something should be done so that we each print some information (or Kevin's story if he agrees) and get it posted to our LFS in our area. Hopefully online distributors will read this post and post info on it too. We have this wondreful opportunity to probably prevent more tragedies and educate people too. Of course some LFS migt not like to sell something that says " This could kill you!"...but I hope I will never read about another deadly zoos story. Philippe __________________ You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus. Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) Current Tank Info: 150 Acr? under development (w/75 G sump w/150 lbs LR) 70 acrylic Gal w/120lbs LR. Lots of Zoos (15 different), Shrooms (5 dif), Xenia (2 dif ), 14 SPS

03/03/2003, 02:13 PM	#66
delafe Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 208	I wonder, what affect does it have on a tank when zoo's crash? Are toxins released into the water? -Alfred

03/03/2003, 02:15 PM	#67
Maury Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ponchatoula, Louisiana Posts: 419	Yes, this has been EXTREMELY informative. I had NEVER heard that zoos were anything but benign. Considered them 'beginner's' corals that didn't need any special precautions/care, etc.. Well, the zoos I have are in my 55 gallon which is in my office. Sice I'm a doctor, there is no shortage of gloves!

03/03/2003, 02:48 PM	#68
delafe Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 208	I wonder, what affect does it have on a tank when zoo's crash? Are toxins released into the water? -Alfred

03/03/2003, 03:35 PM	#69
musashi666 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 179	Thank you for sharing your experience and loss of your pet. My sincere condolonces. -Pete __________________ 180 Gallon AGA, 3x 250w. Blueline 14K, 2x 72" VHO 4" DSB (mostly SD) Plumbed into a 75g Refugeum 150g. Rubbermaid Sump Euroreef Skimmer Current Tank Info: 180 Gallon Reef

03/03/2003, 03:43 PM	#70
drscheck Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Henrietta, NY Posts: 1,957	Kevin, I am very sorry to hear of your lose. I too, had no idea that they were that toxic. I feel your sorrow, as I had to put-down a family pet not too long ago. And your picture started to well my eyes, as one of my dogs looks very similar to yours, I couldn't imagine loosing one of my girls. __________________ Doug Scheck Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents; it was loaned to you by your children. - Ancient Indian Proverb Current Tank Info: All gone

03/03/2003, 03:47 PM	#71
Char Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Three Rivers, Michigan Posts: 80	I am sick about your loss. As a dog breeder and lover, I do know how your feeling...( I no longer use Fly-Die on the farm). It was a freak accident, please don't blame yourself, your right, dogs DO get into everything. Char

03/03/2003, 04:28 PM	#72
afss Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Greenhill, Nova Scotia Canada Posts: 382	Very very sorry to hear of your loss. We have 2 dogs as well as cats. It may not be much, but atleast take heart in th efact that you may save others animals/children from a similar fate by sharing your story Scott __________________ Scott Stackhouse Current Tank Info: ?

03/03/2003, 05:33 PM	#73
Kent E One Millionth Poster Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Asheboro NC Posts: 4,273	I am sorry for your loss, and thank you for sharing with all of us. I had no idea this could ever be a problem. Kent __________________ 1000 gallon Current Tank Info: Dreaming up a new one

03/03/2003, 05:50 PM	#74
Diesel Man Moved On Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Key Largo Posts: 54	Wow Did the dog eat a zoo or sniff the zoos or lick the zoos?,? were they in the water or in a bucket without water? And Im very sorry for your loss. But if the small dog ate a whole zoo and still took 10hrs to meet his maker, Then maybe just holding them in your hand isnt going to get you. even with a cut. Im a diesel mechanic and have tons of cuts and scrapes even chew my nails. I also collect zoos, Lots of them and use bare hands to do it and allways have. Ive cut myself on the rocks I was taking the zoos from ripping them up by the handfull from the rocks. I have lost zoos allover my porch packing and shipping them, my dogs however never pay them any attention, but because of your post Im going to at least pick them up from the ground when they fall and keep the dogs away. I couldnt emagine life without my two jack russels they are my kids. But I think youd have to rub them(zoos) in a cut to get a buzz and then thats all youd get. Hey if it can squirt you in the face and your still alive Then how bad can they be. Theres alot of stuff out there that can kill you in a second. The trick is not to eat it. Or rub it on your lips or your eyes. Now dogs and kids dont know this, but we do. Now I have to go flip the zoos there allmost dry and ready to smoke.

03/03/2003, 06:32 PM	#75
kevin_kramer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: ohio Posts: 164	For everyone that asked feel free to use this post to inform whomever you want. I would also like to thank everyone for the messages of condolences. Today the loss of my pet hit me like a ton of bricks. I came home to an empty house. No greeting at the door, no knocking the stuff out of my arms, and no one to give that treat to. I turned the lights off on my tank because I can't bear to look at it now. No, I am not going to get out of reefing but the tank is a source of grief right now. Thanks again for the responses it is really helping through this rough time. Diesel Man I to have handled zoos for years with no problem. That is why I posted this. I have no idea if she ate them drank the water or got splashed in the eyes. The point is there is always the chance that someone/something innocent can be hurt by them. From the looks of this thread most people had no idea that the possibility of this even existed. If the life of a beloved pet or child could be saved by this information than the loss of my dog was not in vain.