Water parameters question

allendehl · 12/14/2017, 03:42 PM

Hello folks,

Getting into more advanced testings since I brought home a few days ago a little rock with some zoas and want then to thrive.

I tested today my fresh salt water mix and got the following results(IO):

- NO3 - 0
- PO4- 0
- Mg - 1140ppm
- Alk - 11.8 dkH
- Ca - 400 mg/L

Then I tested my DT to have an idea how stable there were. I changed water 2 weekends ago 20% and have replaced about 10 extra gallons since to use
in a hospital tank.

- NO3 - 5ppm
- PO4- 0.01ppm
- Mg - 1260ppm
- Alk - 9.3 dkH
- Ca - 410 mg/L

Gravity is stable at 1.025 in both waters.

Now, I find it odd that the Mg had gone up and the Alk gone down...also Ca up. Does it make sense?

Thanks!

homer1475 · 12/14/2017, 03:50 PM

I would say your well within the limits of our hobby grade test kits.

What kits are you using?

mcgyvr · 12/14/2017, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homer1475

I would say your well within the limits of our hobby grade test kits.

What kits are you using?

For calcium maybe.. mag/alk.. not so much..

Its a bit weird.. I wouldn't do anything yet and just keep testing every few days,etc.. or whatever and that should rule out any "oops"..

homer1475 · 12/14/2017, 04:40 PM

Depending on the kit. Some alk kits are +-2dkh

MAG I will agree with you on though. could be a testing error also. I would retest and compare again.

Whenever I get a weird reading I retest.

Uncle99 · 12/14/2017, 07:53 PM

Zoos are not terribly demanding on water. They thrive in most tanks provided the parameters are close.....yours are fine....test kits only put you in range....many are a guide only....keep them as stable as possible...give him..Moderate light and flow...no need to feed otherwise.

allendehl · 12/15/2017, 03:13 PM

Thank you all!..What I find odd is that Mg went up and Alk down. I'll retest. How are params supposed to behave with the time provided no WC, stable salinity and no dosing?

mcgyvr · 12/15/2017, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allendehl

Thank you all!..What I find odd is that Mg went up and Alk down. I'll retest. How are params supposed to behave with the time provided no WC, stable salinity and no dosing?

Not go up

They go down fairly consistently..

I suspect you will find the same over time and this may be a fluke...

allendehl · 12/15/2017, 03:28 PM

Thank Mc!

hkgar · 12/15/2017, 03:32 PM

Just so you know, be careful how you handle zoa's

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2515630

allendehl · 12/15/2017, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkgar

Just so you know, be careful how you handle zoa's

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2515630

...geez!!! I am allergic to shellfish so I may have some predisposition. This is some scary stuff!!!...Need to plan.

Thank you!!!!

hkgar · 12/15/2017, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allendehl

...geez!!! I am allergic to shellfish so I may have some predisposition. This is some scary stuff!!!...Need to plan.

Thank you!!!!

It's not an allergen it's a poison and put me in the hospital for 3 days.

Timfish · 12/16/2017, 10:08 AM

Having kept reefs for 30 years and run my reef aquarium maintenance business for 22 years now I can say with confidence the biology in our systems is able to really screw with parameters all on it's/thier own. Having benchmarks like you have with both new and DT will help you see how your parameters can vary but your animals don't exhibit anything unusual behavior AND you will see your animals get really upset but there's been no change in parameters. As pointed out by Richard Ross with the Steinhart Aquarium in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRIKW-9d2xI there's a lot of parameters we can't test for and there's questions about how we test, like how do we decide which of two or more test results for the same parameter is the right one if they differ? There's also still a lot of misperceptions about nutrients and the various roles of DOC in our systems and we are just beginning to understand what sponges are doing. This paper done by researchers at Southampton University in England found PO4 limitation in aquarium raised corals caused loss of coral biomass and promoted bleaching. Another video I would suggest is Forest Rohwer's introductory video to microbial processes and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU One of the surprising discoveries noted in this paper done by researchers at Southampton University in England found PO4 limitation in aquarium raised corals caused loss of coral biomass and promoted bleaching. Another video I would suggest is Forest Rohwer's introductory video to microbial processes and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU"]thesis work by de Goeij on cryptic sponges[/URL] is they remove DOC much, much faster than bacterioplankton (30 minutes verses ~20 days)

Timfish · 12/16/2017, 10:22 AM

Having kept reefs for 30 years and run my reef aquarium maintenance business for 22 years now I can say with confidence the biology in our systems is able to really screw with parameters all on it's/thier own. Having benchmarks like you have with both new and DT will help you see how your parameters can vary but your animals don't exhibit anything unusual behavior AND you will see your animals get really upset but there's been no change in parameters. As pointed out by Richard Ross with the Steinhart Aquarium in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRIKW-9d2xI there's a lot of parameters we can't test for and there's questions about how we test, like how do we decide which of two or more test results for the same parameter is the right one if they differ? There's also still a lot of misperceptions about nutrients and the various roles of DOC in our systems and we are just beginning to understand what sponges are doing. This paper done by researchers at Southampton University in England found PO4 limitation in aquarium raised corals caused loss of coral biomass and promoted bleaching. Another video I would suggest is Forest Rohwer's introductory video to microbial processes and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU And we're just beginning to understand the roles of cryptic sponges, thesis work by de Goeij shows cryptic sponges are able to remove DOC much, much faster than bacteria (30 minutes versus 20 days).

So my advice is watch your parameters. Watch your animals. Don't chase numbers because there's no such thing as perfect water conditions.

allendehl · 12/19/2017, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timfish

Having kept reefs for 30 years and run my reef aquarium maintenance business for 22 years now I can say with confidence the biology in our systems is able to really screw with parameters all on it's/thier own. Having benchmarks like you have with both new and DT will help you see how your parameters can vary but your animals don't exhibit anything unusual behavior AND you will see your animals get really upset but there's been no change in parameters. As pointed out by Richard Ross with the Steinhart Aquarium in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRIKW-9d2xI there's a lot of parameters we can't test for and there's questions about how we test, like how do we decide which of two or more test results for the same parameter is the right one if they differ? There's also still a lot of misperceptions about nutrients and the various roles of DOC in our systems and we are just beginning to understand what sponges are doing. This paper done by researchers at Southampton University in England found PO4 limitation in aquarium raised corals caused loss of coral biomass and promoted bleaching. Another video I would suggest is Forest Rohwer's introductory video to microbial processes and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU And we're just beginning to understand the roles of cryptic sponges, thesis work by de Goeij shows cryptic sponges are able to remove DOC much, much faster than bacteria (30 minutes versus 20 days).

So my advice is watch your parameters. Watch your animals. Don't chase numbers because there's no such thing as perfect water conditions.

Great post, thank you very much!

VoltzNSalt · 12/19/2017, 10:14 AM

Here is what I use as my definitive guide for tank chem:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

As long as I'm within these ranges with no major swings (relatively stable), I'm campin' happy...

Uncle99 · 12/20/2017, 09:39 AM

It's palys that may be toxic.....and only if you cut them, boil them, and then touch or eat the juice.......zoos, are not a problem.....palys can be distinguished by longer stems, substrate pieces in the stem....and a quick feeding response.

12/14/2017, 03:42 PM	#1
allendehl Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 692	Water parameters question Hello folks, Getting into more advanced testings since I brought home a few days ago a little rock with some zoas and want then to thrive. I tested today my fresh salt water mix and got the following results(IO): - NO3 - 0 - PO4- 0 - Mg - 1140ppm - Alk - 11.8 dkH - Ca - 400 mg/L Then I tested my DT to have an idea how stable there were. I changed water 2 weekends ago 20% and have replaced about 10 extra gallons since to use in a hospital tank. - NO3 - 5ppm - PO4- 0.01ppm - Mg - 1260ppm - Alk - 9.3 dkH - Ca - 410 mg/L Gravity is stable at 1.025 in both waters. Now, I find it odd that the Mg had gone up and the Alk gone down...also Ca up. Does it make sense? Thanks! __________________ [Newbie here so please take my opinions carefully] Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 350 (72G) \| Jebao DCT 4000 (1056 GPH Max) \| Reef Octopus 152-S \| 2 X Jebao PP8 (2100 GPH Max) Last edited by allendehl; 12/14/2017 at 03:47 PM.

12/14/2017, 03:50 PM	#2
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	I would say your well within the limits of our hobby grade test kits. What kits are you using? __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

12/14/2017, 04:40 PM	#4
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	Depending on the kit. Some alk kits are +-2dkh MAG I will agree with you on though. could be a testing error also. I would retest and compare again. Whenever I get a weird reading I retest. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

12/15/2017, 03:13 PM	#6
allendehl Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 692	Thank you all!..What I find odd is that Mg went up and Alk down. I'll retest. How are params supposed to behave with the time provided no WC, stable salinity and no dosing? __________________ [Newbie here so please take my opinions carefully] Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 350 (72G) \| Jebao DCT 4000 (1056 GPH Max) \| Reef Octopus 152-S \| 2 X Jebao PP8 (2100 GPH Max)

12/15/2017, 03:28 PM	#8
allendehl Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 692	Thank Mc! __________________ [Newbie here so please take my opinions carefully] Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 350 (72G) \| Jebao DCT 4000 (1056 GPH Max) \| Reef Octopus 152-S \| 2 X Jebao PP8 (2100 GPH Max)

12/14/2017, 07:53 PM	#5
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	Zoos are not terribly demanding on water. They thrive in most tanks provided the parameters are close.....yours are fine....test kits only put you in range....many are a guide only....keep them as stable as possible...give him..Moderate light and flow...no need to feed otherwise.

12/15/2017, 03:32 PM	#9
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Just so you know, be careful how you handle zoa's http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2515630 __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

12/16/2017, 10:08 AM	#12
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	Having kept reefs for 30 years and run my reef aquarium maintenance business for 22 years now I can say with confidence the biology in our systems is able to really screw with parameters all on it's/thier own. Having benchmarks like you have with both new and DT will help you see how your parameters can vary but your animals don't exhibit anything unusual behavior AND you will see your animals get really upset but there's been no change in parameters. As pointed out by Richard Ross with the Steinhart Aquarium in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRIKW-9d2xI there's a lot of parameters we can't test for and there's questions about how we test, like how do we decide which of two or more test results for the same parameter is the right one if they differ? There's also still a lot of misperceptions about nutrients and the various roles of DOC in our systems and we are just beginning to understand what sponges are doing. This paper done by researchers at Southampton University in England found PO4 limitation in aquarium raised corals caused loss of coral biomass and promoted bleaching. Another video I would suggest is Forest Rohwer's introductory video to microbial processes and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU One of the surprising discoveries noted in this paper done by researchers at Southampton University in England found PO4 limitation in aquarium raised corals caused loss of coral biomass and promoted bleaching. Another video I would suggest is Forest Rohwer's introductory video to microbial processes and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU"]thesis work by de Goeij on cryptic sponges[/URL] is they remove DOC much, much faster than bacterioplankton (30 minutes verses ~20 days) __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek Last edited by Timfish; 12/16/2017 at 10:13 AM.

12/16/2017, 10:22 AM	#13
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	Having kept reefs for 30 years and run my reef aquarium maintenance business for 22 years now I can say with confidence the biology in our systems is able to really screw with parameters all on it's/thier own. Having benchmarks like you have with both new and DT will help you see how your parameters can vary but your animals don't exhibit anything unusual behavior AND you will see your animals get really upset but there's been no change in parameters. As pointed out by Richard Ross with the Steinhart Aquarium in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRIKW-9d2xI there's a lot of parameters we can't test for and there's questions about how we test, like how do we decide which of two or more test results for the same parameter is the right one if they differ? There's also still a lot of misperceptions about nutrients and the various roles of DOC in our systems and we are just beginning to understand what sponges are doing. This paper done by researchers at Southampton University in England found PO4 limitation in aquarium raised corals caused loss of coral biomass and promoted bleaching. Another video I would suggest is Forest Rohwer's introductory video to microbial processes and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU And we're just beginning to understand the roles of cryptic sponges, thesis work by de Goeij shows cryptic sponges are able to remove DOC much, much faster than bacteria (30 minutes versus 20 days). So my advice is watch your parameters. Watch your animals. Don't chase numbers because there's no such thing as perfect water conditions. __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek

12/19/2017, 10:14 AM	#15
VoltzNSalt In Memoriam Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Higher than the Mile High City Posts: 137	Here is what I use as my definitive guide for tank chem: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php As long as I'm within these ranges with no major swings (relatively stable), I'm campin' happy...

12/20/2017, 09:39 AM	#16
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	It's palys that may be toxic.....and only if you cut them, boil them, and then touch or eat the juice.......zoos, are not a problem.....palys can be distinguished by longer stems, substrate pieces in the stem....and a quick feeding response.