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Unread 03/21/2014, 09:02 PM   #1
rhwimmers
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Beananimal overflow full siphon wont restart

I've been running a BA design on my 240 for quite some time and never had issues until tonight. After having return pump off the BA wont restart how it usually does. Usually it take a few minutes to get it running again - overflow area will fill up extra high and then suddenly drain real quick, gurgle a bunch and repeat a few times and then settle down and run as designed.
Tonight the middle/full siphon doesn't seem to be restarting like it should. I can see air in that PVC looking up in the tube(from below), when it drains quickly and starts to gurgle the "air bubble" goes to the very edge (bottom) of the pvc and stops, then the water raises up again and the bubble also goes up. Been doing the gurgle deal for an hour now and its quite annoying!
Any ideas?


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Unread 03/21/2014, 09:40 PM   #2
salajander
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I had a similar problem with my Herbie until I trimmed the drain hoses to not go more than an inch or so under the waterline in the sump. That way there's not too much back pressure and the bubbles can clear out. Not sure if that's your problem, but worth checking.


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Unread 03/21/2014, 09:41 PM   #3
_DZ_reef
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See if there is no snail on your gate valve, try to open and close to release whatever is stack on it inside I have this with snail many time until I cover overflows to prevent snails to going in it.


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Unread 03/21/2014, 11:59 PM   #4
Bgcoop8784
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sounds like your pipes are too deep in your sump, your pipes coming from your tank should barely be under the water in your sump at normal running level, less than 1" under the water, otherwise you will get an air lock in the pipes and the syphon won't start. take some water out of your sump to test it first, when it starts back running, mark the pipes at the water level and cut them off about 1/2" under that.


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Unread 11/26/2015, 01:55 PM   #5
Bigfish93
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Rhwimmers...did that end up working for you? I'm having the same problem. Once I'm dialed in it works great but once I turn the power off to the pump, the siphon no longer works and the pipe with the rodi tube creates a siphon... not sure how?! I'm wondering if need to trim the PVC going into my sump to just below the water line


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Unread 11/26/2015, 06:43 PM   #6
hogfanreefer
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I had some trash in the intake of the return pump that reduced flow enough to cause the same problem.


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Unread 11/27/2015, 09:56 AM   #7
Spar
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i am having the same issue also. new tank and clear line, the ends of the full siphon go about 1-2" below the water line, I wouldn't have thought that caused a problem. I have to take off the street-L and put it back on each time power restarts to get it to start siphoning again.


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Unread 12/02/2015, 02:06 PM   #8
Bigfish93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spar View Post
i am having the same issue also. new tank and clear line, the ends of the full siphon go about 1-2" below the water line, I wouldn't have thought that caused a problem. I have to take off the street-L and put it back on each time power restarts to get it to start siphoning again.
Hey Spar... I just fixed my problem by removing the johnguest fitting that the rodi tube was attached too. Now the siphons starts back up with no problems. I'm wondering if the rodi line wasn't sucking in enough air? Give this a try, might help you out! And I didn't cut my return lines going into the sump. They are about 2 inches in the water.


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Unread 12/02/2015, 09:43 PM   #9
Spar
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My issue is with the full siphon.. I don't have any tubes coming out of that one (i.e. No air injection).


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Unread 12/03/2015, 06:19 AM   #10
Rybren
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Does your emergency take any flow on startup? It should. How much flow does the oc take on startup? It shouldn't be very much. If the oc has too much flow, it will affect the siphon and may prevent purging.


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Unread 12/04/2015, 01:01 PM   #11
Spar
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hard to tell in my sump due to all lines being below the sump water level. I just can't see the actual flow.

perhaps I need to trim the lines up a bit.

yesterday it was driving me nuts in that my full siphons would randomly start draining much more/faster and then stop, then start again, etc. there must be some pressure backup going on. weekend project


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Unread 02/14/2016, 06:11 PM   #12
adamPL
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did you fix it? I have same problem


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Unread 02/15/2016, 08:42 AM   #13
Spar
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Haven't had time to try yet. I think me issue is that my gate valve is too high though. I am going move it lower and see how that goes before making any significant changes.


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Unread 02/15/2016, 08:09 PM   #14
2_zoa
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Do you all have a hole in the drain lines above the water level? A few years back Bean said it helps purge the air out of the line and helps the restart.


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Unread 02/17/2016, 05:54 PM   #15
Spar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2_zoa View Post
Do you all have a hole in the drain lines above the water level? A few years back Bean said it helps purge the air out of the line and helps the restart.

In the open channel yes but my understanding of the full siphon is that a hole is not recommended/possible. Unless I missed something...?


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Unread 02/19/2016, 08:15 PM   #16
2_zoa
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Quote:
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In the open channel yes but my understanding of the full siphon is that a hole is not recommended/possible. Unless I missed something...?
Hole as in, at the bottom of the drain pipe. Just above the water level in the sump.


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Unread 03/05/2016, 04:22 PM   #17
sea of cortez
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I also have a new external bean animal setup and the same problem as as spar the full siphon wont start unless I pull the 90 out of the bulkhead to flow started and push the air out of the drain


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Unread 03/07/2016, 12:05 PM   #18
sea of cortez
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Solved the problem
The outlet on the full siphon was about 2 inches below the water level in the sump, I shortened it to about 3/4 of a inch and now it works fine with out having to pull the 90's to get the flow started


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Unread 12/08/2017, 08:04 PM   #19
shaginwagon13
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Hey guys, I’m having this issue.... the system runs just fine until I cut the return pump. On start up, the overflow lines clog and won’t restart. I am only able to fit 2 drain lines (1.5” each) in my sumo so I don’t have the option of a third line.

I will trim the lines tomorrow so they are less than 1” under the water in the sump. Should I also drill a hole right above the water level in the pipe? If so, how large of a hole am I aiming to drill?

Thanks guys.


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Unread 12/08/2017, 10:40 PM   #20
Lsufan
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The majority of the time people have this issue it is because the pipes are submerged to far into the sump. They should be submerged no more then 1”. If u have any 90’s or horizontal runs that make it harder to purge the air then u may want to only submerge it 1/2”.


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Unread 12/08/2017, 10:45 PM   #21
shaginwagon13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsufan View Post
The majority of the time people have this issue it is because the pipes are submerged to far into the sump. They should be submerged no more then 1”. If u have any 90’s or horizontal runs that make it harder to purge the air then u may want to only submerge it 1/2”.
I’m sure there is a reason for his but is it an option to have the pipes 1/2” above the water? Or is it required that they are submerged? My sump and filtration is in the basement so noise really is not an issue down there.

Also, I have two ‘bends’ in the piping. I used flex tube. The first bend comes after the pipe enters the basement. After this the pipe is sloped the entire way until the next bend into the sump. I can take pictures tomorrow if that would help.


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Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 200 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
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Unread 12/09/2017, 07:40 AM   #22
der_wille_zur_macht
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Pipes emptying above the water level is possible but it will likely be VERY loud. Even having them a few mm under the water will be dead quiet.

If your drain can't purge against 3 or 4 mm of head, you need to rethink your plumbing. There's an issue somewhere else.


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Unread 12/09/2017, 10:58 AM   #23
outy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
Should I also drill a hole right above the water level in the pipe? If so, how large of a hole am I aiming to drill?

.
yes and it should be small to start

look at a durso set up ad figure out why it works, I actually tune the amount of airflow. Its bullet proof no matter what


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Unread 12/09/2017, 11:50 AM   #24
shaginwagon13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht View Post
Pipes emptying above the water level is possible but it will likely be VERY loud. Even having them a few mm under the water will be dead quiet.

If your drain can't purge against 3 or 4 mm of head, you need to rethink your plumbing. There's an issue somewhere else.
I agree, it’s def a weak point in the system right now. Any power failure while I am away or at work would be a nightmare when the power kicks back on. Is there a way maybe to add a T- fitting on the sloped horizontal section and then plumb in a 1/2” John Guest fitting with tubing that I could run to my sump. My thinking is that t would allow for a point of escape for the air caught in the system upon startup and after that, the water would just flow into the sump. Thoughts?


Quote:
Originally Posted by outy View Post
yes and it should be small to start

look at a durso set up ad figure out why it works, I actually tune the amount of airflow. Its bullet proof no matter what

I’ll look into that now ....


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Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 200 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
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Unread 12/09/2017, 08:46 PM   #25
Lsufan
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So how far are your pipes submerged into the sump? Is your emergency drain taking a bunch of water on startup?
The pipes don’t have to be submerged in the sump but it would be so loud that it almost defeats the purpose of a syphon drain. Although it shouldn’t be needed, drilling a small hole just above the water level in the sump is about the only way to let air out without also allowing air in. If u have to start drilling holes or installing John Guest fittings then something is wrong with the plumbing. I would fix it instead of looking for bandaids to try & make it work. U never know when the bandaid will fall off & it is usually when u aren’t around.

Some pics would definitely help. Try & get a pic of what u have going on inside the overflow box & try & get one of the plumbing going to & at the sump.



Last edited by Lsufan; 12/09/2017 at 11:29 PM.
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