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Unread 12/02/2017, 09:04 AM   #1
Subsea
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25 yr old Jaubert Plenum decommission

The concept of the Jaubert Plenum came from two independent sources. Bob Goemans coined NNR (natural nitrate reduction). Professor Jean Jaubert, curator of Monaco City/state aquarium is the namesake.

NNR refers to de-nitrifying bacteria in a reducing oxygen environment that scavage an oxygen molecule from NO3 to produce a free nitrogen gas molecule. This is the only true nutrient export mechanism that requires no equipment or human intervention. Bacteria rule!

However, I am not interested in exporting nitrate. Why should I remove a major nutrient in the game of life on earth? Redfield Ratio 106:16:1. I say, learn how to manage nitrogen and grow your reef.

Back to my 25 year old Jaubert Plenum at 6” deep with aroggonite substrate that is 3mm-5mm in diameter. Included with this 75G tank is a mud macro refugium. Three months ago, I turned out the lights on refugium, composted tomatoes with macro, added rock seeded with sponges and call it an”cryptic refugium”. A refugium processes nutrients and feeds tank live zooplankton. Refugiums do not need light to process nutrients. Micro fauna and fana with snails & pods form food webs. IMO, with lights out in our reefs, there is more food available then with lights on.

So, now that I have discribed changes in 25 yr old refugium, the “Big Change” is reducing substrate depth at 2”-3” instead of 6”. It is a big job with inhabitants in the tank. I am about 70% complete.


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Unread 12/02/2017, 06:45 PM   #2
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Following - my 80 Gallon acrylic tank came with a built in plenum back in 2002 still in use today. Its been 8 years this time around and have never vacuumed the 3 - 4" aragonite substrate. Can't say good or bad result its just a difficult task vacuuming so I use the plenum excuse as a reason not too.


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Unread 12/02/2017, 07:19 PM   #3
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With the right janitors, there would be no need to vacume. Detritus is food and janitors produce live food for tank. Janitor populations rise & fall with food supply and they feed tank. Directly to fish as amphipods & copepods. Directly to corals as larvae from Cerith sails, bristle worms, micro stars and the “pod brothers”.

My problem with sandbed janitors came about at year 23 with an infestation of Red Planaria which ended with the introduction a Red Planaria eating Wrasse.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/2...c=15+1379+2285

No moresnails, bristle worms,microstars or p”


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Unread 12/02/2017, 07:27 PM   #4
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I have a non lighted sump with a bacteria driven twin reactor and more than half dozen of live oysters. No filter socks or skimmer. I would like to have a cryptic zones in the first compartment but the overflow run on it. Any idea subsea?


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Unread 12/02/2017, 08:44 PM   #5
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In essence, cryptic means unlit. Cryptic sponges will form anywhere they want to, including the glass. Consider using eggcrate to establish surface colonization. With my change to an unlit cryptic refugium, live food production is the priority. Sponges are OK, but not the priority. I provide the right conditions then let Nature take its course.

If you are growing live oysters, you are on top of your live food game. Clams will grow on
inorganic nitrogen. I don’t know about oysters.

I would not be concerned with cryptic sponges for biodiversity if you are successfully growing oysters. I have had live clams for 7 years on Gulf live rock.


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Unread 12/02/2017, 08:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djbon View Post
I have a non lighted sump with a bacteria driven twin reactor and more than half dozen of live oysters. No filter socks or skimmer. I would like to have a cryptic zones in the first compartment but the overflow run on it. Any idea subsea?
There are more than 8,000 species of sponges. Differrent sponges eat differrent things. Cryptic sponges consume DOC. When DOC becomes a problem in my marine tanks, I use GAC.


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Unread 12/02/2017, 10:13 PM   #7
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Thanks subsea. I will create another zone using containers with plastic mesh in it.


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Unread 12/03/2017, 05:47 AM   #8
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First Light

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbon View Post
Thanks subsea. I will create another zone using containers with plastic mesh in it.
Interesting location. Where do you buy your live inhabitants from?

First light in tank. Chilli Coral feeds at night. Just did get Yellow Ball Sponge and Red Tree Sponge from GulfCoast EcoSystem.


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Last edited by Subsea; 12/03/2017 at 05:54 AM.
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Unread 12/03/2017, 05:55 AM   #9
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Chilli feeds at night


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Unread 12/03/2017, 08:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
Interesting location. Where do you buy your live inhabitants from?

First light in tank. Chilli Coral feeds at night. Just did get Yellow Ball Sponge and Red Tree Sponge from GulfCoast EcoSystem.
You mean my corals/fish or critters as foods?


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Unread 12/03/2017, 08:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djbon View Post
You mean my corals/fish or critters as foods?
Tell me more about your tank. For certain you are producing live food to keep oysters alive. I know nothing about bacteria reactor. Tell me about it.

I was just reading about a patented process for marine aquarium bacteria. Due to differrent bacteria growth rates, aggressive bacteria (not necessarily bad) can dominate. I know nothing about bacteria species, but these people at TLC do:

https://www.tlc-products.com/productscience/


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Unread 12/03/2017, 08:25 AM   #12
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I was curious about your location. Are reef aquariums common?


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Unread 12/03/2017, 12:06 PM   #13
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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Unread 12/03/2017, 06:00 PM   #14
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I will update on my setup (very simple actually) but you are right about live foods as I have seen my water turn greenish a few times when only on blue light, possibly phyto or something. The whole system is on closed loop without any mechanical filters, skimmer or UV filter. I have small wavemakers in the sump compartments, on 1 hour on/1 hour off. Every hour all the goodness in there will travel back into the display to be consumed by corals and fishes. I believe there is more than detritus in it, as my 7 green chromis, mandarin fish, sun corals, 3 different sub species goniopora and NPS dendro are thriving without much feeding (fishes are fed 2 times daily).


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Unread 12/03/2017, 10:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
I was curious about your location. Are reef aquariums common?
I am from Sabah, the island of Borneo. We have several pristine diving sites (Sipadan is one of them). Surrounded by south china sea and sulu sea, Borneo is blessed with coral reefs (coral reef triangle). Most of my corals (especially Acros) came from nearby beach. I bought my live oysters from local farmer market, 25 medium sized for slightly over USD1 . I will be on coral hunting this week (lowest tide exposing reefs sites for easy selections).


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Unread 12/03/2017, 10:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djbon View Post
I will update on my setup (very simple actually) but you are right about live foods as I have seen my water turn greenish a few times when only on blue light, possibly phyto or something. The whole system is on closed loop without any mechanical filters, skimmer or UV filter. I have small wavemakers in the sump compartments, on 1 hour on/1 hour off. Every hour all the goodness in there will travel back into the display to be consumed by corals and fishes. I believe there is more than detritus in it, as my 7 green chromis, mandarin fish, sun corals, 3 different sub species goniopora and NPS dendro are thriving without much feeding (fishes are fed 2 times daily).
I am all about recycling nutrients and food webs that feed the tank. The energy from sump wave maker is increasing food production for display. What inverts are living in your sump: amphipods, copepods, snails, worms and the list goes on ?


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Unread 12/03/2017, 10:24 PM   #17
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Back to my setup, I have a DIY build thread for my bacteria driven reactor. Look for Dnovan's nitrate destroyer. I believe most of my planktonic bacteria comes from this reactor. It's a carbon induced reactor, initially for nitrate control but surprisingly it provides some kind of extra foods for the whole tank as well.

I built an algae through from a 4" pvc pipe cut in half lenght wise, capped on both sides. It was plumbed directly on the return section inside the canopy, and lighted by the display main fixtures. Works wonderfully, and full with pods that goes directly into the tank.

Non lit sump is full with sponges, and detritus. Small wave makers in the sump (alternating on/off every hour) stirs all the goodness back into the display.

Live oyster has been living in the return section compartment for mire than several months. Occasionally they spawned, releasing tiny eggs all over the system (no skimmer, socks or other mechanical filters). SPS loves it very much.

As mentioned on my other post above, I witnessed a "phyto" or planktonic occurrence several times where the water column turned into greenish hue (under heavy blue light this event is clearly visible). It could be coming from the reactor as I feed the reactor with VSV.


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Unread 12/03/2017, 10:26 PM   #18
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Would you agree, that bacteria and phyto are the foundations for every food chain in the marine environment?


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Unread 12/03/2017, 10:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
I am all about recycling nutrients and food webs that feed the tank. The energy from sump wave maker is increasing food production for display. What inverts are living in your sump: amphipods, copepods, snails, worms and the list goes on ?
Worms (a few types, some is swimming in screw motion), copepods, amphipods, a lot of tiny duster worms, sponges and a couple of snails (vietnamese farmer hat :P). A lot of other tiny critters in there, thousands of tiny dust moving on the glass panels.


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Unread 12/03/2017, 10:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Would you agree, that bacteria and phyto are the foundations for every food chain in the marine environment?
100% agreed. These are the most abundant foods in the wild. I can clogged my reactor within 2 hours of heavy VSV dosing, which i intentionally do every month. Best way to keep a healthy bacteria mass in the reactor.


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Unread 12/04/2017, 06:37 AM   #21
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So, you are dosing VSV (vodka, sugar, vinegar), which is carbon input.

A de-nitrating reactor reduces water flow, to produce reducing oxygen with an increase of facultative bacteria to reduce no3 to oxygen and free nitrogen gas.

Please tell more about your bacteria reactor. I do remember you posting to my Intelligent Design thread and I read your thread several years ago. At the time, it was over my head. Not so today. I am very interested in how you operate your bacteria reactor.

You should not be surprised that bacteria feed your corals. Google “Food for corals”.

https://www.thespruce.com/what-do-corals-eat-2924017

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/eb/index.php


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Last edited by Subsea; 12/04/2017 at 07:56 AM.
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Unread 12/04/2017, 07:53 AM   #22
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Following
Welcome aboard. Been looking at your tank of the month. Very nice.

Have you started moving? Big job with a system of your size. Good fortune to you on that transition. You should come down an visit me at AQR.

Before the cold weather sets in for Winter, I will have gone to the Coast to collect Ghost Shrimp, Sheepshead Minnows and pods in grass flats and Peppermint Shrimp at night on the jetties. My goal is to grow live food for local reef hobbiest in a 450G outside growout system consisting of three 150G Rubbermade containers buried in the ground. I used this same system 7 years ago during the coldest winter for 20 years in Austin. Trying to keep > 70 degrees was very costly and I pulled the plug. My expectation is that wild caught will be much more hardy to changes to environmental conditions. My temperature setting will be > 55 degrees. Productivity of system will be compared to electrical consumption as totaled by watt meter on that circuit.

Karin,
If you come to visit and enjoy live music, I have many eclectic music friends. While I live in the country, somewhat, I can drive the speed limit and get to the State Capital downtown in less than 20 minutes.

PS. I knew when I said “Bugs Rule”, you might be interested.


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Unread 12/04/2017, 08:07 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djbon View Post
Back to my setup, I have a DIY build thread for my bacteria driven reactor. Look for Dnovan's nitrate destroyer. I believe most of my planktonic bacteria comes from this reactor. It's a carbon induced reactor, initially for nitrate control but surprisingly it provides some kind of extra foods for the whole tank as well.

I built an algae through from a 4" pvc pipe cut in half lenght wise, capped on both sides. It was plumbed directly on the return section inside the canopy, and lighted by the display main fixtures. Works wonderfully, and full with pods that goes directly into the tank.

Non lit sump is full with sponges, and detritus. Small wave makers in the sump (alternating on/off every hour) stirs all the goodness back into the display.

Live oyster has been living in the return section compartment for mire than several months. Occasionally they spawned, releasing tiny eggs all over the system (no skimmer, socks or other mechanical filters). SPS loves it very much.

As mentioned on my other post above, I witnessed a "phyto" or planktonic occurrence several times where the water column turned into greenish hue (under heavy blue light this event is clearly visible). It could be coming from the reactor as I feed the reactor with VSV.
I can’t find your thread in DIY. Go ahead an post a link to it on this thread. I like what you are doing. Tell us more. Perhaps pictures.


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Unread 12/04/2017, 08:49 AM   #24
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Here it is... http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2587610

Very simple design, gravity fed water will flow slowly from one chamber into another. The inlet and outlet level is slightly off, basic water flow will always find its way to the lowest point (outlet). The reactors are filled with porous media, seeded with bacteria in a bottle. A small dosing hole on the first chamber is where the VSV is introduced. I believed you know what happens in there, so I won't go into details.

Carbon dosing into an isolated chambers eliminates common issue of carbon supplement. No cyano outbreaks, easily tuned as you can control the flow and carbon quantity. Best of all, you know how good the bacteria at work as you can measure nitrate level at inlet and outlet. Very similar to sulfur denitrator, but my reactor allows higher flow. My current reactor turn over is one full day. The whole water volume is processed within 24 hours. I can strip nitrate to zero in 2 days from 5ppm nitrate (tested a few times).


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Unread 12/04/2017, 10:03 AM   #25
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This is cool stuff. It's so easy to get carried away by some new technology. But it's really the "simple" systems that are most intriguing to me. And I'm always trying to come up with ways to simplify my system.


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