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Unread 12/10/2017, 08:28 AM   #1
fishkeeprian
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Bean animal overflow help

The full syphon and the and open channel drains do these have to be at the sameheight or does one need to be higher than the other?

Assistance need thank you


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Unread 12/10/2017, 09:37 AM   #2
marks69
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i run the open just above the syphon level so it takes some water at startup but not when the syphon is working.


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Unread 12/10/2017, 04:06 PM   #3
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same height is fine..


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Unread 12/10/2017, 10:33 PM   #4
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I think it's more about preference than requirement. My preference is to have the open channel about hallway between the siphon and the emergency.


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Unread 12/11/2017, 03:00 PM   #5
fishkeeprian
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Does the full syphon and open channel both have to run into the filter section? Or can I just run the full syphon into the filter section and run the open channel and emergency into the refugium?


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Unread 12/11/2017, 05:24 PM   #6
fishkeeprian
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Anyone ?


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Unread 12/11/2017, 10:05 PM   #7
ca1ore
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You can run them into the sump in any way you wish.


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Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Unread 12/12/2017, 12:32 AM   #8
fishkeeprian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
You can run them into the sump in any way you wish.
How much water will the open carry? Does it just carry some of the water on start up and then just acts aa a secondary emergency when the system is running?

It would just be easier to pipe the open channel into the refugium with the emergency,


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Unread 12/12/2017, 05:59 AM   #9
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The open channel will always carry some water.. Should be far less than the full channel but its always carrying some water.. If I had to guess its probably not even 1/4th the water that the full channel is.

You can run it to your fuge with the emergency if you want though..

Only thing to really get right is to have the pipes exit about 1/2" to 3/4" under the normal water level and no more than that or it may not purge properly..


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Unread 12/12/2017, 07:30 AM   #10
fishkeeprian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
The open channel will always carry some water.. Should be far less than the full channel but its always carrying some water.. If I had to guess its probably not even 1/4th the water that the full channel is.

You can run it to your fuge with the emergency if you want though..

Only thing to really get right is to have the pipes exit about 1/2" to 3/4" under the normal water level and no more than that or it may not purge properly..
Thank you.

Also with the pipework in the overflow box, how far does the 90 degree elbow need to be away from the bottom to start the syphon?


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Unread 12/12/2017, 08:12 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by fishkeeprian View Post
Thank you.

Also with the pipework in the overflow box, how far does the 90 degree elbow need to be away from the bottom to start the syphon?
I have mine about 3/8ths of an inch off the bottom...


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Unread 12/12/2017, 11:55 AM   #12
JMorris271
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The height of the siphon pipe determines how much water falls to the sump when the power is off. Actually you don't need a siphon pipe in the over flow to work anyway if you have the room in the sump


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Unread 12/12/2017, 12:03 PM   #13
der_wille_zur_macht
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Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
I have mine about 3/8ths of an inch off the bottom...
If you want the area of the opening between the pipe and the bottom to be at least as big as the cross sectional area (so there isn't a restriction) then the pipe needs to be 2/r off the floor of the box, where r is the inside radius of the pipe.


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Unread 12/12/2017, 12:08 PM   #14
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Here is a picture of mine that I just completed. It is running dead silent and restarts every time. The only time it makes noise is during the restart or I test the emergency line. Other than that the only thing I can hear is a slight hum of the DC return pump.


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Unread 12/12/2017, 01:58 PM   #15
Hal
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Originally Posted by saf1 View Post
Here is a picture of mine that I just completed. It is running dead silent and restarts every time. The only time it makes noise is during the restart or I test the emergency line. Other than that the only thing I can hear is a slight hum of the DC return pump.
What is your setup? I count 5 pipes.


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Unread 12/12/2017, 03:16 PM   #16
saf1
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What is your setup? I count 5 pipes.
Outer pipes are 1" returns. Inner are the three pipes used for the Bean Animal overflow which are open channel, full siphon, and emergency standpipes running with 1 1/2" bulk heads. I used 1 1/2 pipe from sump to bulk heads. However, since I didn't have enough room to accommodate the design using 1 1/2" plumbing in the overflow box I reduced it down to 1". It is still more than enough flow for the 240 gallon tank.

I will be using 2 Sea Swirls(1") on the two opposite corners of the tank connected to the returns and a 250 Gyre in the centre back of the tank. I've followed Bean's design and have to say it really is silent. It wasn't at first but once I re-read the thread in the DIY section I fixed a couple issues I had with the plumbing in the sump, water level, and 1/4" John Guest tube it has been fine since.


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Unread 12/13/2017, 03:11 AM   #17
fishkeeprian
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I have attached an illustration of how I have laid out my plumbing in the overflow box.

All the fittings are 1" and I had to install the full syphon channel and open channel either side of the emergency as they would not fit side by side is this an issue?

Secondly, I have plumbed both the emergency overflow and open channel into the refugium. If the open channel only carries a small amount of water as mentioned above then this is not an issue? is there a reason they are normally plumbed into the skimmer/filter section?

The distance between the opening of the 90-degree elbow and the bottom of the overflow box is approx 20mm is this ok?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/chj65voj0r...RFLOW.PNG?dl=0



Last edited by fishkeeprian; 12/13/2017 at 03:27 AM.
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Unread 12/13/2017, 06:53 AM   #18
der_wille_zur_macht
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20mm is more than enough clearance. Honestly, the most overlooked concern when laying these things out is this: do you have enough room to get your hand in there for maintenance? What if a fish or snail is in the box? Can you reach around the pipes well enough to get it out? Things like that.

Plumbing the three different lines to different parts of the sump is technically OK as long as you're not introducing weird routing (long horizontal runs, extra bends, etc). It may not work as well as you are thinking, though. The flow through the open channel tends to be small and somewhat variable. The open channel is essentially your buffer to allow for the fact that the siphon won't be 100% stable over time (as air accumulates, or a snail climbs over it, or anything like that).

Also, it's important to point out that during start up, until the siphon line is purged of air, the open channel and possibly the emergency will be flowing a LOT more water than during normal operation. On a well designed drain this startup period will only last seconds, but on some tanks it is several minutes or longer. If you are routing your open channel to your refugium, make sure it can handle that extra flow.


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Unread 12/13/2017, 07:39 AM   #19
fishkeeprian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht View Post
20mm is more than enough clearance. Honestly, the most overlooked concern when laying these things out is this: do you have enough room to get your hand in there for maintenance? What if a fish or snail is in the box? Can you reach around the pipes well enough to get it out? Things like that.

Plumbing the three different lines to different parts of the sump is technically OK as long as you're not introducing weird routing (long horizontal runs, extra bends, etc). It may not work as well as you are thinking, though. The flow through the open channel tends to be small and somewhat variable. The open channel is essentially your buffer to allow for the fact that the siphon won't be 100% stable over time (as air accumulates, or a snail climbs over it, or anything like that).

Also, it's important to point out that during start up, until the siphon line is purged of air, the open channel and possibly the emergency will be flowing a LOT more water than during normal operation. On a well designed drain this startup period will only last seconds, but on some tanks it is several minutes or longer. If you are routing your open channel to your refugium, make sure it can handle that extra flow.
The open channel is one vertical pipe with one 45 degrees elbow another small piece of pipe then another elbow which takes it into the sump, then I will probably add another small piece of pipe to take it just below the water line. If I was to try and plumb it into the filter section along with the full syphon then it would have to have extra bends and pipe because I had to plumb it at the end in the overflow box.

What do you mean about handling the extra flow?


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Unread 12/13/2017, 07:56 AM   #20
der_wille_zur_macht
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When the system starts up, the siphon will be full or air, and it'll take time to purge the air before it is handling it's full flow. During that time, the open channel (and possibly the emergency line) will have a lot more water in them than normal.

If you're splitting flow into different portions of the sump, you just need to be aware that there will be this brief period during which the flow is very different. Depending on how you have your system set up, you may need to adjust your design for this flow. For instance, if the refugium was a separate container with it's own bulkhead and drain down to the main sump, you need to make sure that drain can handle it. Also, if the refugium has a sandbed in it, you need to make sure the extra flow will not cause a huge sand storm. If your refugium is just another compartment in your sump, separated by baffles, you need to make sure it can handle the extra flow without washing your macro algae through he baffles. Stuff like that. Give it a shot how you have it set up and adjust as necessary if anything comes up as a problem. In most cases you will be fine - I just mentioned this so you don't go in to this blind and then discover a huge problem some time down the road when the power goes out and your system restarts.


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