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Unread 12/13/2017, 07:54 AM   #1
cedwards04
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40 breeder build

Edit: Build plans changed, no longer diy all in one. Will now have a 20 long sump.


After a lot of back and forth with the wife, I have finally got the ok for our first "reef" tank. I will be building a DIY all in one type tank using a 40 breeder. Wish I had the room for a traditional sump, but I don't at this time. I will be reusing some equipment/lovestock from my current 20gal fowlr.

Unfortunately my local petco is not doing their 1/gal sale right now so I'm trying to hold off on buying the tank for a bit. Right now I am gathering equipment and sketching out plans while I research what others have done.*

My equipment so far is:
Sb reef lights 16" extreme WiFi*
Jebao pp4 wavemaker
Cobalt mj900 return pump
Tunze 9004 skimmer
Tunze osmolator ato
Heater
Small fluval powerhead for mixing saltwater
Refractometer

I purchased 40lbs of dry special grade sand. I have approximately 30lbs of fine sand that I will lay in first, and I will put the special grade on top to hopefully help with sandstorms. I will seed the tank using a scoop of sand from my 20gal fowlr, I will also move all of my liverock over. I purchased 40lbs of dry base rock that I will begin curing when it shows up.

I plan to run some live rock rubble and chaeto in the fuge. My sump area will be 4 inches wide by somewhere around 24 inches long. I don't want to run it the entire length for aesthetics reasons. It will have a media basket in the overflow for if I want to run gfo or carbon. It will then flow into my skimmer section, and then to the return section. The return section will house the ato switch. The return plumbing will feed the refugium section which will also drain back into return section. This way I can regulate flow through the fuge via a simple valve.

I plan to keep lps almost exclusively. I have ordered red sea coral pro salt along with red sea test kits. I am very much a noob although I am a long time member and have been researching and dreaming of this for many many years. I am super excited to get started and I welcome any suggestions or tips a long the way. I will post pictures once I move past the planning stage.*



Last edited by cedwards04; 01/22/2018 at 08:44 PM.
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Unread 12/13/2017, 08:24 AM   #2
mcgyvr
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Congrats..enjoy..and all that good stuff.... Sounds like a good plan so far..
Only thing I'll mention is that IMO the single pp4 won't be enough..


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Unread 12/13/2017, 10:38 AM   #3
cedwards04
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Congrats..enjoy..and all that good stuff.... Sounds like a good plan so far..
Only thing I'll mention is that IMO the single pp4 won't be enough..
I wondered the same and don't mind ordering a second one should I need it. You may very well be correct. It is currently in my 20gal tall, and is overkill for it so I thought there was a chance it would be enough.


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Unread 12/14/2017, 07:14 AM   #4
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A little confusing. You are planning and AIO (All In One) but you mention a small sump...

Suggestion, if you have space for a sump, use the largest possible. Several reasons; larger water volume overall, space for added/supplemental equipment, room to arrange & maximize space.

Typically an AIO has all the filtration, heating, media contained within the four outer panes of the DT.


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Unread 12/14/2017, 11:04 AM   #5
jurgenph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobZilla04 View Post
A little confusing. You are planning and AIO (All In One) but you mention a small sump...

Suggestion, if you have space for a sump, use the largest possible. Several reasons; larger water volume overall, space for added/supplemental equipment, room to arrange & maximize space.

Typically an AIO has all the filtration, heating, media contained within the four outer panes of the DT.
i believe that he's calling the "AIO filter section" his sump

i'm currently doing a very similar build, turning a 40B into an AIO.
but my "sump" section will be on the side, not running the length of the back.


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Unread 12/14/2017, 11:55 AM   #6
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+1 to a second PP-4, I found one of those to not be enough, although I was using an older model. I'm not using two PP-8's, and it's too much. In hindsight 2 PP-4's would have been about perfect. Especially if you want LPS, two PP-4's working together on a wave setting could make some interesting flow to watch with Euphyllia and Duncans.


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Unread 12/14/2017, 09:56 PM   #7
cedwards04
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I will not have enough available space under the stand for a traditional sump, so I was referring to my AIO section in the back of the tank as the "sump". It will be roughly 4"×24". I will have a small space in the stand that can house a 2 gallon or so auto top off reservoir. The stand will double as a bookshelf for my daughter, the tank is going in her room.

I will go ahead and pick up another pp4, not a problem.

My shipment from brs came in today as well as my dry base rock. The rock I purchased is clean and free of any dead organisms and has been lab tested to be phosphate free, we'll see how that goes. Gonna give it a rinse and toss it in a tub of saltwater with a pump. Let it be cycling with a piece of live rock while I wait a bit to see if petco puts their tanks on sale. I'm not the most patient person when it comes to saving a few bucks so if they don't do it soon I will just cough up the extra $50 and buy it at full price.


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Unread 12/14/2017, 10:02 PM   #8
cedwards04
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Also, I could use some recommendations on livestock while I'm waiting to get the tank ready. My 20gal fowlr currently has 2 green chromis and a solid blue damsel, as well as a red cleaner shrimp, a couple of hermit crabs, and a few snails.

I would like to add some color, and my daughter wants a clown obviously, but what next? I'd love to eventually have a mandarin goby but I understand from research that my tank will likely not be big enough and I would need to wait a long time for a good pod population to even have a half decent chance at that.

I plan to add a few nassarius snails to the tank, but I think just moving the rest of my current inverts over from the fowlr should be enough clean up crew.


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Unread 12/15/2017, 06:14 AM   #9
RobZilla04
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Dottybacks, Wrasses, and Anthias' come to mind as having good colors to choose from. Will you have a top or screen to protect from jumpers?


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Unread 12/15/2017, 08:02 AM   #10
cedwards04
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I have debated running a screen. I plan to build a canopy to hide the light fixture, so I'm not sure if I need a screen or not. I don't mind building one if it is needed.


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Unread 12/15/2017, 08:20 AM   #11
RobZilla04
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A canopy would eliminate the need for a screen.


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Unread 12/16/2017, 07:56 PM   #12
cedwards04
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Wanted to get a head start on the cycle of the tank, so I got 40lbs of special grade dry, plus 40lbs of dry rock all rinsed out today and is now cycling in a tub full of saltwater with a powerhead/heater and a piece of liverock from my established tank. The wait begins...


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Unread 12/16/2017, 10:34 PM   #13
rjjr1963
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I have had good luck with two AI Prime HD's on my 40 breeder. I have a long nosed Hawk Fish and two Clowns. I have a yellow Wrasse in QT which is also going in that tank as well.


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Unread 12/17/2017, 08:31 PM   #14
RobZilla04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cedwards04 View Post
Wanted to get a head start on the cycle of the tank, so I got 40lbs of special grade dry, plus 40lbs of dry rock all rinsed out today and is now cycling in a tub full of saltwater with a powerhead/heater and a piece of liverock from my established tank. The wait begins...
Get nitrate and phosphate test kits. Youll need to do water changes to reduce those as they leach out. Can take several months, but not a bad idea to get started while you wait.


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Unread 12/17/2017, 08:58 PM   #15
cedwards04
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Get nitrate and phosphate test kits. Youll need to do water changes to reduce those as they leach out. Can take several months, but not a bad idea to get started while you wait.
I do have them to test and be sure, supposedly this particular rock was lab tested to be phosphate free, so hopefully it at least doesn't leach much.


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Unread 12/27/2017, 10:37 AM   #16
cedwards04
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Picked up a 2nd pp4 and petco's 1/gal sale is going on so I will go pick up a 40 breeder today for half off. Then I can start the build.


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Unread 12/27/2017, 12:41 PM   #17
RobZilla04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cedwards04 View Post
Picked up a 2nd pp4 and petco's 1/gal sale is going on so I will go pick up a 40 breeder today for half off. Then I can start the build.
Best of luck and remember to go slow. If you run into issues ask here before things get way outta hand.


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Unread 12/27/2017, 12:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by cedwards04 View Post
Picked up a 2nd pp4 and petco's 1/gal sale is going on so I will go pick up a 40 breeder today for half off. Then I can start the build.
Hi cedwards04,

In what state are you? My local ad shows only dog food until March??
(good luck w/ the tank build--post pics please)

thanks


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Unread 12/27/2017, 03:22 PM   #19
cedwards04
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Hi cedwards04,

In what state are you? My local ad shows only dog food until March??
(good luck w/ the tank build--post pics please)

thanks
I'm in Alabama, but my understanding is it is nationwide.


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Unread 12/28/2017, 08:31 PM   #20
cedwards04
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Small update. Plans have changed a little. The wife decided to allow me to rearrange my daughter's room a little and move some things around, giving me a spot to dedicate to the tank only, so I no longer have to do a "all in one" and can now have a real sump. So, I'm headed back to petco to pick up a 20 long for my sump!

This will slow me down on the actual build a little bc I have to take care of some things for her first, but the wait will be worth it.


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Unread 01/22/2018, 08:42 PM   #21
cedwards04
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Update: I have been making decent progress on the build. I am almost finished with construction of the stand, then I will build a canopy, and finally paint everything white.

I picked up a 20 long to do a diy sump, and I am looking for recommendations on spacing between the baffles. My plan is to run 4 sections, 1st:skimmer, 2nd:return,3rd:fuge,4th:ato reservoir. I will be using a sicce 2.0 return pump, and plumbing it to a manifold. I will use the manifold to feed a gfo reactor, a carbon reactor, the fuge, and the display tank. I will also plumb and extra unused spot for future additions such as a uv light or whatever I need.

Thoughts? Recommendations? Thanks.


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Unread 01/23/2018, 06:30 AM   #22
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4 chambers in a 20l sump might be a bit tight. I've found that you want to leave as much space as possible for the return section since that's where evap happens. If you set up an ATO then it's not as big a deal, but it's still nice to have the space. Imo, I would remove the fresh water reservoir and split that space between the fuge section and the return.


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Unread 01/23/2018, 07:20 AM   #23
cedwards04
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4 chambers in a 20l sump might be a bit tight. I've found that you want to leave as much space as possible for the return section since that's where evap happens. If you set up an ATO then it's not as big a deal, but it's still nice to have the space. Imo, I would remove the fresh water reservoir and split that space between the fuge section and the return.
I purposely wanted the return section to be small, I will be using a tunze osmolator ato, so I figured with that section being small it would help to maintain more consistent salinity. Is that not true?

I also do not have anywhere to store top off water, so it will have to be sectioned out of the sump. I think a 5" or so section will be plenty of top off water.


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Unread 01/23/2018, 04:51 PM   #24
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I also do not have anywhere to store top off water, so it will have to be sectioned out of the sump. I think a 5" or so section will be plenty of top off water.
a 5" section in a 20L won't hold more than 3 gallon. that's not a lot of top off water.


J.


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Unread 01/23/2018, 09:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cedwards04 View Post
I purposely wanted the return section to be small, I will be using a tunze osmolator ato, so I figured with that section being small it would help to maintain more consistent salinity. Is that not true?

I also do not have anywhere to store top off water, so it will have to be sectioned out of the sump. I think a 5" or so section will be plenty of top off water.
I hear what you're saying, but I don't think the size of the return section should have any effect on salinity if you run an ato, that would depend on how high you set the low water sensor. For some reason I just remember wishing I had made the return section larger when I built an acrylic sump a bunch of years ago.

I really like the idea of building your own sump. I remember being surprised how much the bubble trap and the thickness of the baffles add up. A 20L is 30" long (29.5" inner) 12" wide and high. Let's say you use only 8" for the skimmer, 5" for the return, you need 2.25" for the bubble trap if you use a 3/4" space, that's 15.25", 2 more baffles make it 15.75". You can get just under 7" out of the fuge and fresh water sections, and if you baffle up to the top you can get 4 gallons of fresh water in there. Maybe you can pick up some space with a smaller footprint skimmer? If you drop to 5" on the reserve you can get 7" in the return but only 2.9gal fresh water. I'm sure you will figure out a good use of the space.

What were you thinking about using for the baffles? I got glass ones when I did a 75gal sump because all I read was you wouldn't be able to get a good water tight bond if you mix materials. Getting glass cut wasn't as cheap as I expected, I don't remember the price. I'm going to be starting to build a 50 gal sump and I'm curious to see which route you take. I just found this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by filippo View Post
GE Silicone I
Model: GE012A

100% Clear Silicone I Window & Door Sealant



Buy it at Lowes for less than $4/tube.

It is the SAME silicone that All-Glass Aquarium uses (sold at most pet stores). GE used to label his silicone "aquarium safe" (or something like that) but is now selling it to AGA (reselling it way at a higher price!!!!) and by contract, if you call them, they will not say that it's the same thing nor that is aquarium safe, even thou it is!

Hopefully someone can confirm that's correct. At any rate I'm looking forward to watching your progress, I'm sure it's going to come out great. Any pictures of the stand and the sump would be cool to see.


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