Texdoc77's 150

[soulpatch]

Well sounds like your decision has been made to pull all fish and run fallow. I would just get 2 20L and TTM all fish at the same time personally and swap the tanks every 2 days so you run ZERO chance of going over 72 hours. More salt to be used sure but salt is cheap in the grand scheme of things.

The tank will get clearer and such as your bacteria gets up to par. IE If you dose Vibrant (which is basically just carbon dosing with some bacteria included) your water gets WAY clearer as I have noticed in my tank.

[texdoc77]

Originally Posted by soulpatch

Well sounds like your decision has been made to pull all fish and run fallow. I would just get 2 20L and TTM all fish at the same time personally and swap the tanks every 2 days so you run ZERO chance of going over 72 hours. More salt to be used sure but salt is cheap in the grand scheme of things.

Yes, I've already got the set ups, not a bad idea to get them all through at the same time. And two day swaps would keep the ammonia down as well... May give that a try. I have only ever done the less than 72 swaps, will 48 give enough time for the parasite to change forms and drop off? Also do you do this for 6 swaps then?

QUOTE=soulpatch;25026507]The tank will get clearer and such as your bacteria gets up to par. IE If you dose Vibrant (which is basically just carbon dosing with some bacteria included) your water gets WAY clearer as I have noticed in my tank.[/QUOTE]

I would think my bacteria is at a steady state given that I cycled it quite a while back. Also, how does bacteria load affect clarity, I've not read anything on that...

[soulpatch]

Yes you are still good to go with 2 day swaps. The cysts take just over 72 hours to reattach to the fish so as long as you stay below 72 hours you are golden. You need to go over 12 days though I normally extend TTM to 14-16 days. I merely pump water from the tank into my QT and then refil the tank with clean water.

As for bacteria - the cycle process helps with some bacteria but it takes quite some time for the tank to mater and get the nitrifing bacteria which are anaerobic and live in recesses of the rock work and such. Clarity in a tank is often driven by algae spores, pods, detrious, and tons of other things. Bacteria eats them helping to keep water clear. Same concept in a way to UV or Ozone as both merely break down the same things in the water column that the bateria eat.

[texdoc77]

My QT and TTM tanks are in the same area as my AWC holding bins, it should not be too hard to do this. Maybe a nice little Neptune Dos would do the trick. Need to get an ATO as well for the QT tank... Then after it is my QT tank and am done holding and adding I could also make it my hospital tank...

May consider adding UV to my tank then, the ozone route seems pretty expensive, I have not priced UV though...

[soulpatch]

I wouldnt worry about an ato for the QT tank. You should be looking at it daily at a minimum so topping it off is no issue.

For a UV you are looking at around 500 for a quality UV for our size tanks and bulb replacement. Its not a bad price and has some added benefits but dont go into one thinking it will cure any disease as that is false.

[texdoc77]

Originally Posted by soulpatch

I wouldnt worry about an ato for the QT tank. You should be looking at it daily at a minimum so topping it off is no issue.

For a UV you are looking at around 500 for a quality UV for our size tanks and bulb replacement. Its not a bad price and has some added benefits but dont go into one thinking it will cure any disease as that is false.

I'm all about automation, and the avast ATO is super easy to set and forget, plus it's relatively cheap.

Yeah, that sounds about right. My two issues for the UV would be to keep algae under control and keep the tank clearer.

[soulpatch]

unless you plan on having a qt tank setup all the time you would spend that amount of money on an ATO for something used rarely. I am ALL about automation and spending money as my thread shows but there are times where that money is best spent elsewhere. I can spend 2 minutes to refil the few cups of RODI and use that money to throw in another fish or coral to the tank. Then again my QT setup is only up and running for a few weeks. If I had to go fallow like you do I might reconsider but then I would likely go even cheaper and throw a float valve onto a container and use that instead...

[Darthv247]

your getting there! newer tanks always are a battle. Just my two cents. but maybe add a marine pure block to give some more places for bacteria to work. I am not a fan of the smaller balls or tubes. think that type of filtration is a step back to the old wet dry filters in a way.
I would also add a screen to the top if you have not already. I can't tell you how many fish i have had jump out and die on the floor especially anthias and such.

Tank is looking good! but odds are the water is cloudy due to insufficient biological filtration.

[texdoc77]

Well, it's done. All my fish are out of the DT and in TTM #1, even the mandarin. I will likely sell him back to the LFS as I do not have any other saltwater friends close to me that would have a good copepod population.

Currently I have an IOWLR tank. I am very nervous about taking my fish back through TTM especially since they already stressed with Ich and the fact I harassed them all evening to get them out of the DT. The lineatus was especially difficult to capture. Anyway the water was AWC water that was basically in equilibrium with my DT water though I did temp match and double checked salinity, so we shall see.

I think I will take Soulpatches advice and do 48 hour transfers. I will keep you all posted with any losses and each transfer.

I will use this time to do the following:

1. Do a little aquascaping, add a few more rocks and raise the height of rock work in the tank a little, but nothing crazy. I am still committed to a minimalistic approach, but I believe I was a little TOO minimalistic at first and really did not allow for good hiding places for fish or blocked line of sight.

2. Install my new Avast skimmer with swabbie and skim mate locker.

3. Get the tank water clear, well as much as I can.

4. Dose fluconazole; I noted a little more bryopsis creeping up over the last week and will knock it out for good during this time. It will be the perfect time as I will pull my old skimmer out while building my new one and let the fluconazole do its thing without needing to worry about nitrates and phosphates creeping up.

5. Work on growing my corals, well I mean really just getting my water stable.

6. I have some marine pure dust in the sump that I would like to clean out. I also think I am going to remove my macro algae from the sump, just not sure I need it at the moment and may not add it back.

And whatever else you guys and gals think might be helpful...

Updates to follow...

[texdoc77]

Originally Posted by Darthv247

your getting there! newer tanks always are a battle. Just my two cents. but maybe add a marine pure block to give some more places for bacteria to work.

Thanks for the kind words. I actually have two marine pure blocks in the sump along with the MP balls and lots of rubble in my refugium. I figured that was the only way to get my biological filtration up to snuff with such minimalistic rock work. As I posted just now, i will also be adding a little more BRS reef saver rock to add a little height to the tank to help with lighting zones, thanks to soulpatch.

Originally Posted by Darthv247

not a fan of the smaller balls or tubes. think that type of filtration is a step back to the old wet dry filters in a way.

You mean like those plastic balls and ceramic rings that come with canister filters? yeah, I agree.

Originally Posted by Darthv247

would also add a screen to the top if you have not already. I can't tell you how many fish i have had jump out and die on the floor especially anthias and such.

Great idea. I do have a canopy and the biggest fear would be a eurobrace surfer. I have gone back and forth on the screen.

Originally Posted by Darthv247

Tank is looking good! but odds are the water is cloudy due to insufficient biological filtration.

Yes the cloudy water has given me much to consider. Earlier today I discussed this with soulpatch in my thread and he said the same thing. I have considered Vibrant and Nopox as ways to increase bio filtration, but for now I think I will just be patient and see if the cloudiness works itself out naturally, without either of those. Of course going fallow should help, but what to do when I add fish back?

[Darthv247]

right. every little change we make to our tanks has its effects especially in the begining when we are adding livestock. just takes more time for the ecosystem to adjust than we are willing to wait for. We have all been there. patience is a virtue with biology.

[Darthv247]

you already know what to do when adding fish back take your time. monitor the tank. Another thing that can make water look cloudy is excess co2 or low oxygenation rates. but your ph has been in line so it should be ok.

[texdoc77]

Originally Posted by Darthv247

you already know what to do when adding fish back take your time. monitor the tank. Another thing that can make water look cloudy is excess co2 or low oxygenation rates. but your ph has been in line so it should be ok.

Well what I meant on adding fish back was whether or not to consider nopox or vibrant. I really like the red sea lineup and might consider nopox, but since vibrant has been shown to clear the tank well, if I am still cloudy I would consider that or a UV sterilizer...

[soulpatch]

Originally Posted by texdoc77

Well, it's done. All my fish are out of the DT and in TTM #1, even the mandarin. I will likely sell him back to the LFS as I do not have any other saltwater friends close to me that would have a good copepod population.

Currently I have an IOWLR tank. I am very nervous about taking my fish back through TTM especially since they already stressed with Ich and the fact I harassed them all evening to get them out of the DT. The lineatus was especially difficult to capture. Anyway the water was AWC water that was basically in equilibrium with my DT water though I did temp match and double checked salinity, so we shall see.

I think I will take Soulpatches advice and do 48 hour transfers. I will keep you all posted with any losses and each transfer.

Only thing I recommend with the 48 hour transfer is feed before you swap tanks so that food stays in the old tank. Makes keeping levels even easier...

I will use this time to do the following:

1. Do a little aquascaping, add a few more rocks and raise the height of rock work in the tank a little, but nothing crazy. I am still committed to a minimalistic approach, but I believe I was a little TOO minimalistic at first and really did not allow for good hiding places for fish or blocked line of sight.

2. Install my new Avast skimmer with swabbie and skim mate locker.

3. Get the tank water clear, well as much as I can.

Good luck and all are great ideas. Use this time with minimal feeding needed to get the tank in order. I agree to add in some marine pure which should aid your bacteria count to aid with water quality. I have both blocks and spheres in my fuge. Spheres are for my pods mostly and the blocks are for my bacteria.

4. Dose fluconazole; I noted a little more bryopsis creeping up over the last week and will knock it out for good during this time. It will be the perfect time as I will pull my old skimmer out while building my new one and let the fluconazole do its thing without needing to worry about nitrates and phosphates creeping up.

I wouldn't go this route if you are going to aquascape anyway. This adds nitrates and such to the tank as things break down which can cause other issues down stream. Some are having cyano outbreaks following it. What I would do instead is dip your rocks with peroxide since you will be messing with it anyway. Doing it this way in the dip helps keep some of the phosphate and nitrates out of water column and also seems to keep more algae from setting in.

5. Work on growing my corals, well I mean really just getting my water stable.

Do you have a doser going? If not are you looking to grab one? I know you mentioned you are looking to go SPS more and as such your levels are going to be need bolstered. If you dont have a doser yet and you do intend to get into SPS more and more then I highly recommend you start to take the dive into calrx. It puts in alk and calc but also trace elements which are highly beneficial. Much higher upfront cost compared to a doser and you will never break even unlike some say but those elements and such you introduce back into the water column are highly beneficial. A used Geo 618, good dual stage reg, and a pump will set you back around 1K but the results more then make up for it. Or go baller like I did and thrown down easily 1500 on your calrx setup. Everyone wants to be like me anyway!!!

6. I have some marine pure dust in the sump that I would like to clean out. I also think I am going to remove my macro algae from the sump, just not sure I need it at the moment and may not add it back.

And whatever else you guys and gals think might be helpful...

Updates to follow...

I typically do a sump drain and clean every 6 months. It is a great time to pull out the shopvac, rubbermade tub, and such. I will suck out as much water and filth as possible. Pour a bucket or two of fresh water back in and suck it out again. Pour in water again to keep marinepure and such alive and put back in my chateo.

Remove all pumps and put into rubbermade tub with a 50/50 vinegar/sw mix and allow them to run for an hour or so. Remove, brush off, and put back into service.

I dont think I would run a tank without chateo though. BRS did a cool video on it recently and while I dont need the export as much (certainly helps) it is a great area for pods and such to grow in which feed my fish. I do have a phyto and pod reactor running now so I am growing my own at this point but I still like the richer biology int he tank to have the chateo. Now that said I would not put any other macro in there unless I had a dedicated external fuge....


As for vibrant or nopox. That is up to you. I am currently on vibrant. I will switch off here shortly and likely just do limited vinegar dosing. Nopox is just a vinegar/vodka mix. So if you want to go either route you could just get a cheap bottle of vinegar and dose. Look up carbon dosing and there are charts on here which show the dosage amounts.

I have been considering adding a UV to my tank or CO2 since they are other toys to play with but at this time my wallet is telling me otherwise. Plus it is almost golfing/beach season so my weekends will be shot for some time. Summers are my perfect leave the tank alone times....

[texdoc77]

Originally Posted by soulpatch

Only thing I recommend with the 48 hour transfer is feed before you swap tanks so that food stays in the old tank. Makes keeping levels even easier...

Good idea, I also like the idea of not letting the ammonia get quite as high in the tank with the quicker transfer.

Originally Posted by soulpatch

Good luck and all are great ideas. Use this time with minimal feeding needed to get the tank in order. I agree to add in some marine pure which should aid your bacteria count to aid with water quality. I have both blocks and spheres in my fuge. Spheres are for my pods mostly and the blocks are for my bacteria.

I have been using MP for my main substrate since I set the tank up. May go ahead and add another block or two and some more spheres. In my refugium area I have spheres and rubble mixed for pods.

Originally Posted by soulpatch

wouldn't go this route if you are going to aquascape anyway. This adds nitrates and such to the tank as things break down which can cause other issues down stream. Some are having cyano outbreaks following it. What I would do instead is dip your rocks with peroxide since you will be messing with it anyway. Doing it this way in the dip helps keep some of the phosphate and nitrates out of water column and also seems to keep more algae from setting in.

I dipped all the rocks in peroxide about 3 weeks ago and I already have bryopsis coming back. Picked as much as I could from the sand bed, but that stuff just gets a foothold and won't let go. From what I have read the cyano outbreaks are associated with the use of vibrant, of course I am sure there are exceptions.

Originally Posted by soulpatch

Do you have a doser going? If not are you looking to grab one? I know you mentioned you are looking to go SPS more and as such your levels are going to be need bolstered. If you dont have a doser yet and you do intend to get into SPS more and more then I highly recommend you start to take the dive into calrx. It puts in alk and calc but also trace elements which are highly beneficial. Much higher upfront cost compared to a doser and you will never break even unlike some say but those elements and such you introduce back into the water column are highly beneficial. A used Geo 618, good dual stage reg, and a pump will set you back around 1K but the results more then make up for it. Or go baller like I did and thrown down easily 1500 on your calrx setup. Everyone wants to be like me anyway!!!

LOL, we do, we do. I do have a doser. The new Kamoer x4 wifi 4 head doser. Currently dosing low to mid 20's alk/ca daily. Have not needed any Mg yet. I will stick with the doser for now since plunking down the cash. Will of course consider the calcium reactor down the road.

Originally Posted by soulpatch

I typically do a sump drain and clean every 6 months. It is a great time to pull out the shopvac, rubbermade tub, and such. I will suck out as much water and filth as possible. Pour a bucket or two of fresh water back in and suck it out again. Pour in water again to keep marinepure and such alive and put back in my chateo.

Remove all pumps and put into rubbermade tub with a 50/50 vinegar/sw mix and allow them to run for an hour or so. Remove, brush off, and put back into service.

I had not planned to get into it that much, but on second thought I think I will. Any reason you use the 50/50 vinegar with SW instead of RO/DI?

Originally Posted by soulpatch

I dont think I would run a tank without chateo though. BRS did a cool video on it recently and while I dont need the export as much (certainly helps) it is a great area for pods and such to grow in which feed my fish. I do have a phyto and pod reactor running now so I am growing my own at this point but I still like the richer biology int he tank to have the chateo. Now that said I would not put any other macro in there unless I had a dedicated external fuge....

Fair enough, the macro has not grown nearly as much over the last month or two since I have gotten my NO3 and PO4 Under Control, but it is not any hassle and as you said a good place for pods.

Originally Posted by soulpatch

As for vibrant or nopox. That is up to you. I am currently on vibrant. I will switch off here shortly and likely just do limited vinegar dosing. Nopox is just a vinegar/vodka mix. So if you want to go either route you could just get a cheap bottle of vinegar and dose. Look up carbon dosing and there are charts on here which show the dosage amounts.

Well, I have this big bottle of nopox that I bought at the beginning thinking I would use it. But I did have a bacterial bloom and then the water did not get clear again and I decided to let it go. May consider the nopox again, still undecided.

Originally Posted by soulpatch

I have been considering adding a UV to my tank or CO2 since they are other toys to play with but at this time my wallet is telling me otherwise. Plus it is almost golfing/beach season so my weekends will be shot for some time. Summers are my perfect leave the tank alone times....

I will be coming out of my fallow period at the beginning of the Summer, moreso the end of Spring and will be busy getting my fish back in the tank. At this point I will also be adding some new fish to replace losses.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[texdoc77]

Ok day #3 of my tank being fallow. No further fish losses in TTM. Still the 2 chromis, 2 clowns 1 midas blenny and the lineatus. That Lineatus lays on its side all day, breathes hard but then will get up swim around like nothing has happened. To be fair I fully am expecting him to pass as I think the stress of ich/transfer was probably too much, but for now he is eating well. The white fluffy patch on his face cleared up within a day and now I am wondering if it was a piece of mysis sitting there. I know that sounds silly but I have not seen a dermal lesion heal that quickly, even with the addition of prazipro.

Got that Avast Peg Leg assembled and in the sump. I need some tubing for the skim mate locker, but until the skimmer gets dialed in that will not be necessary anyway.

Tank looks clearer, not sure if that is because of the new salt, no fish or what, but at least that is going well.

The corals, shrimp, anemones snails and crabs are all doing well, as is the new clam I added. Without those pesky fish in there to bother their water everything seems to be doing well, LOL.

Alk/Ca doing well, now dosing at the same levels at 22ml/day of each. Levels of around 9.5 to 10 dkh and 420 for the calcium.

I will continue to update as new events warrant.

[texdoc77]

Tank is now fallow Day #10. I have heard many things about how long to keep the tank fallow, but I will likely do 72 days as there have been case reports of tomites in tanks at this stage. I'm sure some do more, but that is where I am drawing the line. Mostly I have seen 6-8 weeks which is only 42-56 days, not quite long enough IMO.

I dosed fluconazole earlier in the week at a dose of 20mg/gallon, so I dosed a total of 3000mg of fluconazole. I pulled open the capsules and diluted them in RO/DI as best I could then poured it slowly into the return section of the sump. I no longer have any bryopsis, still a little turf algae, its now day 6 of the treatment, a little under halfway there. I will go 14 if all looks good or a full 21 if I am still having some issues. To be clear the tank was good, but even after pulling each rock and dipping in H202 I noted little patches up bryopsis cropping back up and figured best time to do the tank was while it was fallow. Pleased at this point. There are case reports of a cyano outbreak, but hopefully I run clear of that.

Now the heartbreaker, I lost the lineatus over the weekend in TTM. As previously stated he got a little overwhelmed with the ich and never really looked good in TTM. I still have the 2 clowns and 2 chromis and the midas blenny. I just did transfer #5 and today is day #10. The final transfer will be Wednesday morning as I ultimately did 60 hour intervals for 6 transfers. None of the fish I have are showing signs of ich, however, none of these fish EVER showed any signs of ich. To recount I lost a PBT, a male lyre tail anthias, 2 female lyre tail anthias and my lineatus. Of course hind sight is 20/20 and although it is all my fault I would likely have pushed the lineatus through TTM had he not had the extra day in transit and looked so poorly upon arrival. C'est la vie. The QT tank has been cycling now for several days and I need to do some testing to see where we are at but it should be looking good for Wednesday.

The DT is really looking good. The water clarity is excellent which is good, but I have not been running my AWC since adding the fluconaozle. Should it haze up once I am finished with that treatment I may have to reconsider how I do my water changes. I might consider doing larger water changes in a shorter period of time rather than the 1% daily changes I have been doing. Not sure how much the LMIII can do in a 24-48 hour period, but likely I would target 55gallon every couple of weeks...

My cleaner shrimp are doing well and molting about weekly. The two anemones seem to have settled down on opposite sides of the tank and I no longer feel either will pass away. My zoas and SPS frags are all doing wonderfully, and the birds nest seems to be growing in front of my eyes. Overall pleased with the tank and will be glad to get some fish back in it.

I am thinking of making the trip to Reef-a-palooza in NY in June with my wife, kiddos staying at home. The rooms at the event center seem a little steep, may look to stay close but maybe not right on site...

[soulpatch]

Fallow period is 72 days minimum. A lot go to 80 to be sure. I would do around 75 personally as ny minimum.

Let me know if you are coming to ny. I will be there and might be looking for a room myself with a buddy of mine. We want the good stuff on Saturday and potential deals on Sunday. Plus drinking with reefers sat night.....

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[texdoc77]

Originally Posted by soulpatch

Fallow period is 72 days minimum. A lot go to 80 to be sure. I would do around 75 personally as ny minimum.

Let me know if you are coming to ny. I will be there and might be looking for a room myself with a buddy of mine. We want the good stuff on Saturday and potential deals on Sunday. Plus drinking with reefers sat night.....

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Yes, 75 seems right considering the tomites need time to die...

Yeah, RAP seems like it will be a total blast, never been to one before. Would be fun to put some faces to names...

[soulpatch]

RAP is fun as it is a great time to see some things coming out you were unaware of, thinks in R&D, and TONS of corals waiting to find their forever home....

[Thornbreaker]

Hey Tex,

I just found your thread. I'm looking at doing a similar 150 gal tank w/ either a Trigger 39 or a Simz sump. How's your SCA 302 skimmer doing? Does it handle the 180 gallon or so total volume you have?

[texdoc77]

I actually estimate my TWV at about 150 gallons with the triggersys 39 minus rocks and sand. The SCA 302 was fine, but my bioload was not real high. My plan was always to upgrade, but not at first. It is fine at first while you cycle and get your tank up and running (first year or so), but I would opt for something else as you increase bioload. A few of the other SCA 150's on here use a life reef, I opted for the peg leg 180 with skimmate locker.

[Thornbreaker]

I expect mine to be pretty low for awhile. I'm going to go pretty slow adding fish, and may run mostly a FOWLR till after I get my tank well established and a mandarin in about year out. Then maybe a Tang or two.

And then I'll look at a few easier corals to add.

Since ratings seem to arbitrary on skimmers it's hard to know what will fit my tank size and under $400 bucks preferably.

[texdoc77]

Corals are not as hard as many people think and can add some color early on. I have usually added some zoas (though that is not everyones favorite) early on just to watch them propagate. The build it yourself peg leg was well under $400.

[tenpercenter]

Great thread, how are things going with the tank now?

Curious if you would make any changes in your SCA tank/stand now that you've had it a while? Looking to get rolling on a 120-180 build soon...