What size return pump?

[dianapickles]

Hi
So I just upgraded to a 200g 5ft tank. I've got the plumbing all ready in the sump although I'm not completely sure of the size of the sump. I think it's about 55g.

The tank came with a return pump rated at 740gph although I'm not completely sure if this is enough for the turnover rate.
I have a corner overflow box which I think is a "mega flow" type. (Intake at the top and bottom. Water from bottom fills up and flows over glass) not sure if that's the right term.

Currently with the 740gph pump the overflow only fills up to about 5cm of water (it's 80cm in height). Is this supposed to happen? I'm under the impression I need at least 1500gph for a good turnover rate ?

[WaReefer458]

About the water depth in the overflow, does it have the piping in it? As far as the return pump. Hell no. That's way too small. I run a 950gph pump on my 40b. I'm a fan of the mag drive pumps so me personally. I would have a mag18 at least. Especially if you are going to be running reactors off of it.

[dianapickles]

There are two pipes in the overflow compartment. One pipe covers wires that lead to the sump power board from the lights and the other for the return which goes back up through the overflow. I've never seen a tank with this kind of setup but it works in terms of keeping equipment hidden.

And I'll definitely be getting a better return pump then I guess. I knew this couldn't be right haha.

[rygar]

Ask yourself what the point is with a ton of flow thru the sump. What purpose would it actually serve? Your main goal with turnover is water movement and preventing dead spots. Turnover doesn't mean rate thru the sump. Simply the amount of water movement. A tunze can push close to 4000 gph and use very little power. Much better choice of water movement than a big return pump.

[yacn]

What head pressure are you pumping. How far is it from sump to tank

[WaReefer458]

Originally Posted by dianapickles

There are two pipes in the overflow compartment. One pipe covers wires that lead to the sump power board from the lights and the other for the return which goes back up through the overflow. I've never seen a tank with this kind of setup but it works in terms of keeping equipment hidden.

And I'll definitely be getting a better return pump then I guess. I knew this couldn't be right haha.

Well whoever did that has the wrong idea. The smaller bulkhead should be for a return and the bigger one is your drain. They sell overflow kits for like 50$ to change it back to the way it should be. You will also cut down the splashing sound down after correcting this as there will not be a waterfall into the overflow. If I remember right on my 75gal it keeps the water level around 2" or so from the top of the overflow. And the pipe has height adjustment to get the water level where you want it. As far as the pump goes, I like high flow and the more water you have going to and from the tank will clear up detritus and uneaten food from the display faster. I have a 950gal pump on my 40 and an mp40 pushing water around and after feeding the tank it only takes 10 min or so and all the uneaten food is down in the sump where it belongs, not suspended in the tank. But hey, that's just 1 guys opinion.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by dianapickles

I'm under the impression I need at least 1500gph for a good turnover rate ?

There are two kinds of 'turnover'. Exchange of water between the display and the sump and water movement within the display. The former is obviously accomplished with the main return pump; the latter can also be accomplished that way, though is better (and more efficiently) served via in-tank power-heads/wave makers (poorly named, as they don't really create waves).

There is no reason I can think of to have more than 3x your display volume exchanged between tank and sump per hour. As long as there is uniform heating and adequate surface skimming, there's really no reason to go any higher. Your current pump is probably going to be fine.

Depending on the animals you intend to keep, the movement of water within the display is going to want to be much higher, and as I note before, best accomplished with in-tank propeller pumps.

[dianapickles]

Originally Posted by WaReefer458

Well whoever did that has the wrong idea. The smaller bulkhead should be for a return and the bigger one is your drain. They sell overflow kits for like 50$ to change it back to the way it should be. You will also cut down the splashing sound down after correcting this as there will not be a waterfall into the overflow. If I remember right on my 75gal it keeps the water level around 2" or so from the top of the overflow. And the pipe has height adjustment to get the water level where you want it. As far as the pump goes, I like high flow and the more water you have going to and from the tank will clear up detritus and uneaten food from the display faster. I have a 950gal pump on my 40 and an mp40 pushing water around and after feeding the tank it only takes 10 min or so and all the uneaten food is down in the sump where it belongs, not suspended in the tank. But hey, that's just 1 guys opinion.

Well you're damn right and I agree with everything you've said. My overflow is a bloody waterfall right now and I was actually just telling my boyfriend we need to extend the drain pipe to increase the water height. I'll probably try get it about 2" or so from the top as well.

I got a much stronger pump and as far as I'm reading here not everyone likes that idea. I just installed the stronger pump (1800gph) and apart from the cascading water down the overflow (easy fix), I love the flow it's providing.

[dianapickles]

Right now, after installing a 1800gph pump in the sump, I'm actually happy with the flow. I'm not going to solely depend on that for the flow in the display tank as I'm definitely getting wave makers, but I do like the sump - display flow.

I noticed that with the old pump, the water in the sump was barely even making it to the display tank. That means all the skimming and heating going on in the sump is rendered a bit useless because that water was hardly even getting circulated. I might have over killed it a bit with 1800gph but the flow is so far so good. (I'm learning. And still new to the whole sump thing) I'll be fixing the waterfall in the overflow by extending the height of the drain pipe.

If the current pump ends up being too much I'll get a less powerful pump. So far it trial and error while the tank is still cycling.

If anyone disagrees with anything I just wrote or sees some huge flaws please feel free to correct me because clearly I actually don't know what I'm talking about but hey we all learn one way or another.

[dianapickles]

I never do it right :P

[WaReefer458]

Unless you plan on doing sps, 1 mp40 would probably be good for flow inside the tank. Center it on the end of the tank 6-8" from the surface. I'd run it on nutrient transport mode for a few hours as high as you can set it without blowing sand everywhere and you'll be amazed of what will quickly come out of your rocks. A clean filter sock on the drain to the sump and you will be shocked of what's in it after just a couple hours. Good luck with the tank. It sounds like you are making changes for the better!

[perforator]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

There is no reason I can think of to have more than 3x your display volume exchanged between tank and sump per hour.

Fish only tank?

[WaReefer458]

I typically won't go less than 10x but prefer the 12-15x range. My 40 with the head loss is at 20-22x range at the moment.

[dianapickles]

Originally Posted by WaReefer458

Unless you plan on doing sps, 1 mp40 would probably be good for flow inside the tank. Center it on the end of the tank 6-8" from the surface. I'd run it on nutrient transport mode for a few hours as high as you can set it without blowing sand everywhere and you'll be amazed of what will quickly come out of your rocks. A clean filter sock on the drain to the sump and you will be shocked of what's in it after just a couple hours. Good luck with the tank. It sounds like you are making changes for the better!

Well I have two wave makers at the moment. Two jebao rw4's I think. Should that be enough? (Including the return pump flow ofc). I never thought of a filter sock, I'll definitely need one of those.
And thanks for for the encouraging words :P much needed after the drain pipe came loose not long ago. Almost flooded the living room. Needless to say, my boyfriend had a great laugh about it.

Also I would love to have sps. I'm sure the flow will be great for them but my softies probably will hate me in the low nutrient system

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by dianapickles

as far as I'm reading here not everyone likes that idea.

It won't do any harm, it's just not necessary - and you run the risk of overwhelming the drain capacity and causing yourself problems down the road.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by perforator

Fish only tank?

No, mixed reef. But the type of tank is irrelevant to this discussion.

[dianapickles]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

It won't do any harm, it's just not necessary - and you run the risk of overwhelming the drain capacity and causing yourself problems down the road.

Ah, fair enough I'm feeling sillier by the minute here. I'll probably downsize anyway, the return head is really going for it.

Unfortunately the tank can't even be turned on after having water get into the power board that came with the tank. It's right above the sump. I can't decide whether the placing is smart or horribly stupid.
I've left it to dry all night and it's still managing to trigger the safety switch.... Guess I'll have to wait this out for a week with no power. I've got live rock in both sump and display so I guess it should be fine cycling like that for now.

Oh the luck..

[dianapickles]

Here he is... Cycling away all sad, cold and powerless.

Edit: Forgive the left sided photo. Blame my phone.

[dkeller_nc]

You may find very quickly that you must put some sort of circulation in both the upper display tank and the lower sump tank. The cheapest way is an extension cord and one or two air-pumps with air stones.

Without this, and presuming that you've actually got live rock instead of dead rock, the tank will smell like a bucket of fish placed in the hot sun at the end of the pier for a week.

[dianapickles]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

You may find very quickly that you must put some sort of circulation in both the upper display tank and the lower sump tank. The cheapest way is an extension cord and one or two air-pumps with air stones.

Without this, and presuming that you've actually got live rock instead of dead rock, the tank will smell like a bucket of fish placed in the hot sun at the end of the pier for a week.

Why would it smell? I'm not disagreeing, just curious. I've cycled tanks before with no power at all with the exception of a heater and a skimmer on another tank. I've never really noticed any smell.

I'm assuming the lack of oxygen would cause major die off? Regardless I'm going to try dry off the power board some more. Unless anyone has any suggestions on how I can get it working again?

I'll definitely put some circulation in there for now.

[perforator]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

No, mixed reef. But the type of tank is irrelevant to this discussion.

So you're saying a fish only tank with a wet dry filter shouldn't cycle more than 3 times the tank volume through the sump?

[atreis]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

It won't do any harm, it's just not necessary - and you run the risk of overwhelming the drain capacity and causing yourself problems down the road.

It could also be louder (both the pump, and the water sounds of the overflow), and less efficient.

3x really is plenty.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by perforator

So you're saying a fish only tank with a wet dry filter shouldn't cycle more than 3 times the tank volume through the sump?

Well, I haven't run a wet/dry for over a decade (maybe 2), so clearly you need enough flow to ensure adequate 'trickle coverage'; but I'd judge that 3x ought to be more than enough.