DIY LEDs - The write-up - Page 12

goofball310 · 03/12/2009, 06:14 PM

when you ran 10w led's did you run them in series? also what driver did you use to run the 4 of them, and how many did you need?

muelpaul · 03/12/2009, 06:35 PM

Soundwave, I am very impressed with your layout and think you have given many the courage to attempt to make one themselves (me included).
I have been following along from the start and have been tinkering around with design layouts for an led light to cover a 72" x 30" x 24"h tank.

To everyone:
My big concern is how many 3W led per fixture(6 total, 30"l x 10.5"w).

I am not sure if my thinking is correct here, but with 25 degree led optics will I get a spread like my attached drawings?

The 2 drawings are not of the same fixture, I am just trying to figure out true light spread.

About 8" spread (each LED) from fixture(6" above tank) to about 18" depth(12" tank depth)...

Light about 6" above tank, LED light spread at bottom of tank about 13"...

I have pdf files of these which are much clearer but photobucket will not upload them.

Thanks
- Paul

Soundwave · 03/12/2009, 06:56 PM

I just want to apologize to all of you following along. I changed my mind. Yeah I know...

I decided that I haven't given this fixture a chance to show what it is capable of. Like all people, I just want more. I decided, for now, to cancel the order for the optics and see how this plays out. I'm happy with the current output and I think I'll give this a chance before upgrading or changing anything.

Sorry for getting anyone more excited.

Soundwave · 03/12/2009, 06:59 PM

Goofball: Those were 3 watters. I never used the 10s. I used a single 700mA buckpuck.

lynxvs · 03/12/2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefEnabler
Here's a wiring question:

If an LED has a Vf of 3.6v, and you are using a BuckPuck with 24 VDC input, then this is just barely enough to power 6 of these LEDs in series; the Vf of 6 LEDs would be 21.6v (need 2v margin).

Could you wire two groups of 6 (in series) in parallel?? Basically after each group of 6 the wiring would connect back at the buckpuck essentially making two parallel groups of 6.

Anybody know if this will work? And if so, why don't we use more parallel wiring to power more LEDs with the Buckpucks?

Thanks

This always sounds logical..... unfortunately it's kind of hard to explain but if you have two branches of 6 LEDs in parallel and each branch requires say 1 Amp you would have to supply two Amps to the circuit. The Buck Puck is a constant current source so it will divide it's 1 Amp into the two branches so it will only supply 500 mA to each branch. I hope this makes sense.

There is another problem with parallel circuit in that if you could supply two Amps to the circuit and if an LED fails and the circuit is opened on one branch the current has to go somewhere so it flows in the other branch. That means 2 Amps will be flowing though that other branch resulting in a big cloud of smoke.

lynxvs · 03/12/2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefEnabler
one more question thats probably been covered
Is it ok to mix LEDs of different Vf in the same series if they require the same current?

Ie a few cool white 3.85 Vf, 700mA LEDs mixed with some 3.15 Vf, 700mA LEDs.

From what I have done this doesn't seem to be a problem but I don't have a definite answer on this. I think this just naturally happens because of the variation in part manufacture anyway.

lynxvs · 03/12/2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by muelpaul
Soundwave, I am very impressed with your layout and think you have given many the courage to attempt to make one themselves (me included).
I have been following along from the start and have been tinkering around with design layouts for an led light to cover a 72" x 30" x 24"h tank.

To everyone:
My big concern is how many 3W led per fixture(6 total, 30"l x 10.5"w).

I am not sure if my thinking is correct here, but with 25 degree led optics will I get a spread like my attached drawings?

The 2 drawings are not of the same fixture, I am just trying to figure out true light spread.

About 8" spread (each LED) from fixture(6" above tank) to about 18" depth(12" tank depth)...

Light about 6" above tank, LED light spread at bottom of tank about 13"...

I have pdf files of these which are much clearer but photobucket will not upload them.

Thanks
- Paul

Your calculations are correct... I'm impressed someone remembers Trig. I would maybe space them closer together.

Soundwave · 03/12/2009, 09:49 PM

A couple beers convinced me to cancel my order cancellation. My mind says go for it now so that's what I'm gonna do.

Stay tuned for updates. I have to wait for the optics to be in stock before they ship.

thelastlaugh9 · 03/13/2009, 05:04 PM

Using exatctly 1/2 of your set up, what wattage power supply is needed and how is it determined. I've noticed some that offer the same amprage with different wattage

goofyreefer · 03/13/2009, 09:13 PM

I was at a Petland right by my house tonight and they have a small reef display tank and use a Solaris 24 inch fixture. It has 50 LED lights and was really unimpressed with this fixture. What type of LEDS does Solaris use?

Soundwave · 03/13/2009, 09:38 PM

I believe Phillips lumileds.

Soundwave · 03/13/2009, 10:47 PM

Lastlaugh: You could actually use the same power supplies. They are cheap enough. Halving it would require at least a 24V 2A power supply to each color of LED.

Sculp1n · 03/14/2009, 12:23 AM

Fist off thank you for the incredible DIY thread. Amazing man!

I have been dreaming of getting an LED system on my 225 and have read through most of this thread (actualy just reading your answers to the many questions) but I decided to do the math on what this would cost me.

Am I doing this right?
You have 48 star LED's for a 75 gallon that comes to .64 Star LED's per gallon.
Now if I try and apply that to my 225 I would need 144 Star LED's right?

Figuring that the each Star LED costs $7.21, that would mean it would cost me in $1,038 in just the LED's.
Then for ever 6 LED's you need 1 buckpuck, adding $360.00.
Heatsinks I would guess as being $150
Maybe $100 for a power supply to run it all (probably more but I know very little about PS's)

Total $1,648 and that is not including any mounting material, wires, fans and whatever else. Just based on the math I would figure on this being about $7.50 per gallon if you where wanting to do this yourself on any tank. It's competitive with most LED lighting.

My conclusion is that it would be more cost efficient to either get 24/7 supply LED bulb's (if they stay in business after this whole lawsuit thing) or wait till the LED market lowers there prices. Though there is some night and day differences and huge benefits to having a personalized light fixture to fit your individual needs, the fact that you will almost never have to think about your lights for the next 10 years, and that it's just plain cool, this does not seem like a project that would be a good use of my time and money.

I don't mean that to be offensive in any way (you've got enough sh%t thrown at you for this build as it is). Matter of fact I had no opinion till I just figured this out in this post and I could be completely wrong on my math anyways. Those questions marks were not rhetorical.

Once again, Thank You for the awesome thread Soundwave.

Sculp1n

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 01:00 AM

I'm pretty sure if I had a larger tank like yours, I probably would have never even tried this.

Tonight, I finished the enclosure for the fixture and cut giant holes in my canopy so it can shine through. I took a few pictures so I'll be sure to post them.

At this point, I'm waiting on the optics. I really hope this will be as good as I'm expecting.

Fingers crossed.

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 01:08 AM

Yay, I can use a custom avatar!

<------

Skymonster · 03/14/2009, 04:47 AM

Soundwave,

Thank you for taking the time to write up such a detailed thread.

I have a few questions, that I could not find an answer too reading all the other pages.

1. You attached 24 Leds to each heat sink that was 12"x8.5", can you tell me the spacing / distance between each LED and Row

2. I believe you used Cree XRE Q4 LEDs, I am looking at using the CREE XRE P4s, any opinions or downside to this change?

3. Also could not find the dimentions of your Tank. HxLxW? Sorry I know you have mentioned a Stanard 75Gallon, but I am in Australia and may mean something different.

4. Your fixture is 48" by 8.5"?? Do you have the measurements for the placement of the lights/heatsinks within the overall fixture?
E.g. The heatsink is x" from the end of the fixture with x" between them.

Thanks for you time in replying.

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 08:48 AM

The P4 would work but they just aren't as bright. The lumen output according to cree is only 87.4 max at 350mA. The Q4 is 107. The Q5, their highest, runs at 114.

This is all at 350mA. They can handle up to 1000mA and the lumen output increases with the amperage.

As far as spacing, it's something close to 2 inches. I have to paint the thing today so I'll measure for sure.

Tank size is 48x18x21

As far as placement, the whole thing is 48 inches. 12 inches in from each end is the center of the heatsinks. that leaves 6 inches from each end to the beginning of the heatsink with a 12 inch gap between the two.

Hope that helped.

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 11:23 AM

The enclosure is done. It reminds me of a Corvette engine in a Buick, though.

EBOLII · 03/14/2009, 11:57 AM

That looks fantastic. Remind me again, how many buckpucks you deployed? I see 2, is the power supply under them? Looks like a double side box, with a piece of aluminum between.[like a I-beam] then a you add a cover.
I would like to see a closer image of that if your willing

Also show the belly of your new light box please

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 02:30 PM

This is the rat's nest of wiring enclosed in the shiny aluminum box. There are 8 buckpucks in total. 4 700mA opposite the blue wire loom and 4 1000mA right underneath the blue loom.

The power supplies live in the black box I posted underneath an end table next to the tank.

EBOLII · 03/14/2009, 03:27 PM

I understand now thank you. The power supplies, are these run in parallel or are they stand alone? You ave 2 correct?

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 04:06 PM

They are standalone. Each supply powers the different colors. One for white and one for blue.

Imzadi · 03/14/2009, 05:02 PM

I have a modest question compared to others...

I mentioned before about my thoughts about getting into this... For my little 55g... I intend to run 2 x 96w actinic, and 2 rows of 6 x white leds like yours... Do you think that would be enough for most of the basic corals? And what would I need... 2 of them pucks, and a power supply... would I need a heatsink? Do those little buggers really get THAT hot?

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 05:11 PM

Should be fine for some softies. It's hard for me to recommend something like that as I've not tried it. They do get hot. Running them at 1000mA, they can actually damage themselves in minutes without proper cooling.

As an update, I have phase 1 done on this new venture. The enclosure is built and painted and has been mounted on top of my canopy. I'm amazed at how bright it still looks. I can't wait for the optics to show up. Could be a week and a half, still.

ackerman · 03/14/2009, 05:20 PM

Any chance u could do a par reading the way it is now and another when u get the optics so we can see the diff. it makes?

03/14/2009, 12:23 AM	#288
Sculp1n Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 121	Fist off thank you for the incredible DIY thread. Amazing man! I have been dreaming of getting an LED system on my 225 and have read through most of this thread (actualy just reading your answers to the many questions) but I decided to do the math on what this would cost me. Am I doing this right? You have 48 star LED's for a 75 gallon that comes to .64 Star LED's per gallon. Now if I try and apply that to my 225 I would need 144 Star LED's right? Figuring that the each Star LED costs $7.21, that would mean it would cost me in $1,038 in just the LED's. Then for ever 6 LED's you need 1 buckpuck, adding $360.00. Heatsinks I would guess as being $150 Maybe $100 for a power supply to run it all (probably more but I know very little about PS's) Total $1,648 and that is not including any mounting material, wires, fans and whatever else. Just based on the math I would figure on this being about $7.50 per gallon if you where wanting to do this yourself on any tank. It's competitive with most LED lighting. My conclusion is that it would be more cost efficient to either get 24/7 supply LED bulb's (if they stay in business after this whole lawsuit thing) or wait till the LED market lowers there prices. Though there is some night and day differences and huge benefits to having a personalized light fixture to fit your individual needs, the fact that you will almost never have to think about your lights for the next 10 years, and that it's just plain cool, this does not seem like a project that would be a good use of my time and money. I don't mean that to be offensive in any way (you've got enough sh%t thrown at you for this build as it is). Matter of fact I had no opinion till I just figured this out in this post and I could be completely wrong on my math anyways. Those questions marks were not rhetorical. Once again, Thank You for the awesome thread Soundwave. Sculp1n __________________ [IMG]http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e253/Micah_Orvis/HarlequinSuperSmall.jpg[/IMG] Current Tank Info: 235 Gallon and 29 BC Last edited by Sculp1n; 03/14/2009 at 12:29 AM.

03/14/2009, 04:47 AM	#291
Skymonster Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 6	Soundwave, Thank you for taking the time to write up such a detailed thread. I have a few questions, that I could not find an answer too reading all the other pages. 1. You attached 24 Leds to each heat sink that was 12"x8.5", can you tell me the spacing / distance between each LED and Row 2. I believe you used Cree XRE Q4 LEDs, I am looking at using the CREE XRE P4s, any opinions or downside to this change? 3. Also could not find the dimentions of your Tank. HxLxW? Sorry I know you have mentioned a Stanard 75Gallon, but I am in Australia and may mean something different. 4. Your fixture is 48" by 8.5"?? Do you have the measurements for the placement of the lights/heatsinks within the overall fixture? E.g. The heatsink is x" from the end of the fixture with x" between them. Thanks for you time in replying. Last edited by Skymonster; 03/14/2009 at 04:53 AM.

03/14/2009, 11:57 AM	#294
EBOLII Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Deep within the uncharted Amazon Posts: 400	That looks fantastic. Remind me again, how many buckpucks you deployed? I see 2, is the power supply under them? Looks like a double side box, with a piece of aluminum between.[like a I-beam] then a you add a cover. I would like to see a closer image of that if your willing Also show the belly of your new light box please __________________ I am lost in every-way there is.............literally.............just plain LOST

03/14/2009, 03:27 PM	#296
EBOLII Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Deep within the uncharted Amazon Posts: 400	I understand now thank you. The power supplies, are these run in parallel or are they stand alone? You ave 2 correct? __________________ I am lost in every-way there is.............literally.............just plain LOST

03/14/2009, 05:02 PM	#298
Imzadi Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,038	I have a modest question compared to others... I mentioned before about my thoughts about getting into this... For my little 55g... I intend to run 2 x 96w actinic, and 2 rows of 6 x white leds like yours... Do you think that would be enough for most of the basic corals? And what would I need... 2 of them pucks, and a power supply... would I need a heatsink? Do those little buggers really get THAT hot? __________________ If you don't agree with me, that's fine... just go, think about it some more, and come back when you do. Current Tank Info: 120g Freshie, 55g salty with a 2/3 BeanAnimal. BA METHOD - TESTIFY! I am a DIY Disaster, but I am saving money! Damsel FREE since 07/08/09!

03/12/2009, 06:14 PM	#276
goofball310 Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 1,002	when you ran 10w led's did you run them in series? also what driver did you use to run the 4 of them, and how many did you need?

03/12/2009, 06:35 PM	#277
muelpaul Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: New London, WI Posts: 592	Soundwave, I am very impressed with your layout and think you have given many the courage to attempt to make one themselves (me included). I have been following along from the start and have been tinkering around with design layouts for an led light to cover a 72" x 30" x 24"h tank. To everyone: My big concern is how many 3W led per fixture(6 total, 30"l x 10.5"w). I am not sure if my thinking is correct here, but with 25 degree led optics will I get a spread like my attached drawings? The 2 drawings are not of the same fixture, I am just trying to figure out true light spread. About 8" spread (each LED) from fixture(6" above tank) to about 18" depth(12" tank depth)... Light about 6" above tank, LED light spread at bottom of tank about 13"... I have pdf files of these which are much clearer but photobucket will not upload them. Thanks - Paul

03/12/2009, 06:56 PM	#278
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	I just want to apologize to all of you following along. I changed my mind. Yeah I know... I decided that I haven't given this fixture a chance to show what it is capable of. Like all people, I just want more. I decided, for now, to cancel the order for the optics and see how this plays out. I'm happy with the current output and I think I'll give this a chance before upgrading or changing anything. Sorry for getting anyone more excited.

03/12/2009, 06:59 PM	#279
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	Goofball: Those were 3 watters. I never used the 10s. I used a single 700mA buckpuck.

03/12/2009, 09:49 PM	#283
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	A couple beers convinced me to cancel my order cancellation. My mind says go for it now so that's what I'm gonna do. Stay tuned for updates. I have to wait for the optics to be in stock before they ship.

03/13/2009, 05:04 PM	#284
thelastlaugh9 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vienna, VA Posts: 26	Using exatctly 1/2 of your set up, what wattage power supply is needed and how is it determined. I've noticed some that offer the same amprage with different wattage

03/13/2009, 09:13 PM	#285
goofyreefer Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hoffman Estates Illinois Posts: 812	I was at a Petland right by my house tonight and they have a small reef display tank and use a Solaris 24 inch fixture. It has 50 LED lights and was really unimpressed with this fixture. What type of LEDS does Solaris use?

03/13/2009, 09:38 PM	#286
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	I believe Phillips lumileds.

03/13/2009, 10:47 PM	#287
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	Lastlaugh: You could actually use the same power supplies. They are cheap enough. Halving it would require at least a 24V 2A power supply to each color of LED.

03/14/2009, 01:00 AM	#289
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	I'm pretty sure if I had a larger tank like yours, I probably would have never even tried this. Tonight, I finished the enclosure for the fixture and cut giant holes in my canopy so it can shine through. I took a few pictures so I'll be sure to post them. At this point, I'm waiting on the optics. I really hope this will be as good as I'm expecting. Fingers crossed.

03/14/2009, 01:08 AM	#290
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	Yay, I can use a custom avatar! <------

03/14/2009, 08:48 AM	#292
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	The P4 would work but they just aren't as bright. The lumen output according to cree is only 87.4 max at 350mA. The Q4 is 107. The Q5, their highest, runs at 114. This is all at 350mA. They can handle up to 1000mA and the lumen output increases with the amperage. As far as spacing, it's something close to 2 inches. I have to paint the thing today so I'll measure for sure. Tank size is 48x18x21 As far as placement, the whole thing is 48 inches. 12 inches in from each end is the center of the heatsinks. that leaves 6 inches from each end to the beginning of the heatsink with a 12 inch gap between the two. Hope that helped.

03/14/2009, 11:23 AM	#293
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	The enclosure is done. It reminds me of a Corvette engine in a Buick, though.

03/14/2009, 02:30 PM	#295
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	This is the rat's nest of wiring enclosed in the shiny aluminum box. There are 8 buckpucks in total. 4 700mA opposite the blue wire loom and 4 1000mA right underneath the blue loom. The power supplies live in the black box I posted underneath an end table next to the tank.

03/14/2009, 04:06 PM	#297
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	They are standalone. Each supply powers the different colors. One for white and one for blue.

03/14/2009, 05:11 PM	#299
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	Should be fine for some softies. It's hard for me to recommend something like that as I've not tried it. They do get hot. Running them at 1000mA, they can actually damage themselves in minutes without proper cooling. As an update, I have phase 1 done on this new venture. The enclosure is built and painted and has been mounted on top of my canopy. I'm amazed at how bright it still looks. I can't wait for the optics to show up. Could be a week and a half, still.

03/14/2009, 05:20 PM	#300
ackerman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Jamestown, ND Posts: 286	Any chance u could do a par reading the way it is now and another when u get the optics so we can see the diff. it makes?