Our tank's biology up close

[jason2459]

Black_Mat_Sample01-0091 by Jason, on Flickr

Black_Mat_Sample01-0092 by Jason, on Flickr

Black_Mat_Sample01-0093 by Jason, on Flickr

[jason2459]

And the vids. Will work on getting all the vids up to my youtube too.

Black_Mat_Sample01_01 by Jason, on Flickr

Black_Mat_Sample01_010 by Jason, on Flickr

Black_Mat_Sample01_011 by Jason, on Flickr

Black_Mat_Sample01_012 by Jason, on Flickr

Black_Mat_Sample01_02 by Jason, on Flickr

Black_Mat_Sample01_03 by Jason, on Flickr

Black_Mat_Sample01_04 by Jason, on Flickr

Black_Mat_Sample01_05 by Jason, on Flickr

Black_Mat_Sample01_07 by Jason, on Flickr

Black_Mat_Sample01_08 by Jason, on Flickr

[jason2459]

Black_Mat_Sample01_09 by Jason, on Flickr

[karimwassef]

So each "hair" is basically one long visible bacterial chain... one long bacteria holding on (how?) to another bacteria ?

Could the smaller bacteria create more he "forest floor" matting and the longer ones be the hair?

Are they all cyano or different kinds?

Chemiclean disperses it temporarily so I knew cyano was in there but I expected it to be a "matrix" that grew under the hair.

Bacteria = no macro predators that'll eat it.
My urchins will go there as a last resort but with all the coralline, they don't bother any more.

I assume that the easiest solution is local application of peroxide combined with an antibiotic and chemiclean.

I have no cyano films anywhere in the tank and no algae except at the coral tips where no fish, snail or crab can reach. So it's not nutrient loading (no measurable N or P due to the monster ATS).

Since it grows by encrusting the high light & flow areas, I'm assuming it must be heavily photosynthetic.. but I would expect those zones to be colonized by regular old green hair. Maybe my rabbit is too efficient at eliminating anything green so I've created an artificial ecological space for this bacteria (that my rabbit won't eat).

[karimwassef]

The mystery to me is the "glue" that holds them together.

[taricha]

So the wide strands are cyano, Jason what would you call the thin strands? Bacterial strings?
When I over-carbon-dose my tank produces similar much thinner than cyano strings, so I'm assuming bacterial. These strings can be way stronger than cyano, so bacterial glue or whatever sort we're talking about shouldn't be underestimated.


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[karimwassef]

But is there precedence for bacterial hair?

[bertoni]

Strings of microbes are a fairly common occurrence. I think this example looks like others I've seen in the past.

[karimwassef]

So we've seen solid bacteria hair in reef tanks before? Which bacteria is it?

[bertoni]

I don't have any background in microbiology, so I can't identify species. Someone else might be able to help.

[karimwassef]

taricha? jason?

[jason2459]

Sorry, will have to catch up and post later when i have a clearer head. You got me those samples just in time. Putting in a crap ton of time into work for the next couple weeks.

[karimwassef]

so thinking about bacteria ... one option is to find bacteria eaters ... ?

another is to use an antibacterial that targets these kinds of long strand bacteria... but a targeted solution would require a better identification of the kind of bacteria that it is.

so we know it is bacteria - but what kind is it?

[karimwassef]

An oldie but a goodie

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-01/eb/index.htm

[karimwassef]

any way to tell if the bacteria in my black fuzz are gram positive or gram negative?

I'm thinking of local antibiotics (yes - severe, I know). I'm tearing the tank down, so I'm willing to take a few more risks than usual (and my usual is pretty risky)...

so, having looked at these bacteria...

Erythromycin (Maracyn) for gram positive cocci bacteria.
Minocyclin (Maracyn 2) a tetracycline antibiotic for a broader spectrum of bacteria.
Bactrim (Maracyn Plus) a sulfa antibiotic plus trimethoprim for gram positive cocci.
Melafix (Tea Tree Oil)
or .... ?

Any idea which would work best with the least side effects?

I'm also curious about the impact of antibiotics given that my tank is very heavily algae-filtration based.

Of course, everything in connected, so killing bacteria could hurt corals, fish, invertebrates, sponges, and even the algae. And most would kill indiscriminately...

But it's rare that I get to experiment and be ok with a full tank wipe in order to learn (talking myself into it...)

I could just go UV or peroxide or ozone... or just localized bleach if I was getting nihilistic... but I think experimenting with antibiotics could generate some useful findings for others?

for all I know, my very rapid coral growth could be due to a bacterial catalyst somewhere in the tank...

open to ideas ...

I could also take a sample in a little container and add different antibiotics to see what happens.

[taricha]

What happened with the black mats back when you dosed chemi-clean?

It is possible to hit an h2o2 dose that will affect the cyano part of the matrix at a dose level below what will hurt other things.


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[karimwassef]

Chemiclean hurts it but it always comes back in the same exact spot

Maybe I'll do chemiclean and simultaneously blast the infected areas with peroxide to disinfect

[karimwassef]

I'll do it again and take a video this time